PDA

View Full Version : Nerdy, clunky and uncool?



Spare_Man
01-16-2007, 02:21 PM
I have a nephew who is obsessed with WWII and can’t wait to become a WWII reenactor when he's old enough. The bug bit him hard mostly because of Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers. He thinks the Civil War is interesting, but movies like Gettysburg and Gods & Generals seem very slow, clunky and downright embarrassing to him. He thinks "Glory" is the only CW movie that deserves to live another minute and I tend to agree with him. But WWII is “da bomb." Even his cool friends don’t think it’s nerdy for him to be into WWII as it would be if he was into CW.

Ouch! Man, that hurt. :(

So, what do you think? Is WWII draining CW reenacting of it's seedcorn? Is CW too clunky, too nerdy and just plain uncool? :confused:

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 03:35 PM
I have a nephew who is obsessed with WWII and can’t wait to become a WWII reenactor when he's old enough. The bug bit him hard mostly because of Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers. He thinks the Civil War is interesting, but movies like Gettysburg and Gods & Generals seem very slow, clunky and downright embarrassing to him. He thinks "Glory" is the only CW movie that deserves to live another minute and I tend to agree with him. But WWII is “da bomb." Even his cool friends don’t think it’s nerdy for him to be into WWII as it would be if he was into CW.

Ouch! Man, that hurt. :(





So, what do you think? Is WWII draining CW reenacting of it's seedcorn? Is CW too clunky, too nerdy and just plain uncool? :confused:

One thing about authenticity for WWII hobbyists, it's cheaper unless you want a restored Willys to ride around in. Uniforms both authentic and authentic replicas are easy to be had except authentic airborne gear such as an original half moon fix bale M1 helmet and the same goes for an original jump suit but real good repros can be had for US, British and German at a decent price.
As for the historical aspect you're sort of confined to all simulated battlefields since all were in Europe so here it's more cowboys and Indians type acting.
CW, other than being expensive, has the advantage of being where it happened. WWI and II, unless you're part of a European group, is only enthusiasts without the authentic battleground to reenact on. To me that is nerdy.

sbl
01-16-2007, 05:48 PM
...heck, several OLD guys (older than me) from the 5th NHV went over to WWI and II.

"One thing about authenticity for WWII hobbiest,(sic) it's cheaper unless you want a restored Willys to ride around in."

These guys DO! Two Jeeps now I think.

I thought WWII was not for me as the small amount of camp life I saw was happening over with the Germans. (cuter girlfriends too)

As I grew up with WWII era GI Issue parents, I had some clue as to the "1st person" and I didn't see it in the camp I went to, just Viet Nam slang. (Your experiences may vary.)

I like the shoulder to shoulder line tactics and SEEING the smoke of who's shooting at me. The WW II squad tactics just seemed like Cowboys and Indians to me.

An aside was that just after I started WW II, I lost my job and you can guess which kit was sold.

"...slow, clunky and downright embarrassing.."

Oh ....that's Rev War. ;)

Army30th
01-16-2007, 05:54 PM
You honestly believe that WW2 reenacting is cheaper than CW???

Let me educate you: The following is just the price for some items from two "nameless" vendors


M41 field jacket 175.00
M43 field jacket 190.00
M43 Airborne Field Uniform set 300.00
Field Jacket buttons 7.00 EACH
Enlisted OD Shirts 75.00
Enlisted OD Trousers 145.00
OD Web Belts with Square open face buckles 20.00
Service shoes/boots 150.00
Overseas cap "piss-cutter" 30.00
Haversack 60.00
Canteen cover 20.00
Cartridge belt 90.00
Helmet various prices but upwards of 100 dollars.
Class A uniform Jacket 160.00


Now take into consideration that each man needs one each of the following just just to be uniform:

Jacket 175.00
OD Shirt 75.00
OD Pants 145.00
Belt 20.00
Shoes 150.00
Cap 30.00

Total for the above: 595.00

Now this does not include: Blankets, Haversack, Ammo Belt, Suspenders, E-tool, E-tool cover, Tent, sleeping bag, leggings, rain coat, overcoat, footlocker, Class A Uniform, toiletries, Items for footlocker, mess kit (plate, cup, canteen, canteen cover, knife, fork, spoon), neckties, handkerchiefs, etc ad nauseum.

Weapons: Well, WW2 weapons can only be purchased from private individuals, gun shops, or Federal Government licensed dealers. These can range from the 319 dollars I paid for my Garand to several thousands of dollars for Machine guns. Firing reproductions cannot by law be made of many of the weapons used in this war. And reproductions are not available period of any of the weapons that the average soldier would carry.

European reenactors of any sort have a far more difficult time reenacting than we do. When was the last time you went to a reenactment and RENTED your rifle for the day??

The uniform authenticity requirements for WW2 reenacting are WAAAYYY superior to Civil War. The clothing is so spot-on that many manufacturers stopped putting the reproduction "original" garment tags on their clothing because they were being sold as original garments to the unsuspecting. You cannot participate in a full-blown reenactment without a specific minimum of gear. Truely authentic WW2 reenactors do not go "rambo" but follow CORRECT period tactics from original manuals, not something an "arm-chair" General dreamed up while supping on popcorn watching "A Bridge Too Far".

OK so maybe I started my own little war. It just so happens that I do both CW and WW2 and my impression for WW2 fills a small storage unit, whereas everything I own for CW can be kept in the house. You cannot tell me that WW2 is cheaper, because it just ain't so.

JEBeedle
01-16-2007, 06:44 PM
I have a nephew who is obsessed with WWII and canít wait to become a WWII reenactor when he's old enough. The bug bit him hard mostly because of Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers. He thinks the Civil War is interesting, but movies like Gettysburg and Gods & Generals seem very slow, clunky and downright embarrassing to him. He thinks "Glory" is the only CW movie that deserves to live another minute and I tend to agree with him. But WWII is ďda bomb." Even his cool friends donít think itís nerdy for him to be into WWII as it would be if he was into CW.

Ouch! Man, that hurt. :(

So, what do you think? Is WWII draining CW reenacting of it's seedcorn? Is CW too clunky, too nerdy and just plain uncool? :confused:

It sounds like your son wants to do more cowboy and Indians than having to stand in line and listen to orders.

I would try to encourage him to try both and see what he likes the best because it sounds like he is judging what war to reenact by what movie he likes the most. Also it sounds like he is making his decision base on his friends and that is a dead end road.

I started reenacting when I was in high school and I was never made fun of or was called a nerd.

I don't think that WW2 is having a big influence on CW reenacting I have seen ww2 reenactors and they donít seem to put to many men in the field and they are not very well organized.

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 06:47 PM
When was the last time you went to a reenactment and RENTED your rifle for the day??


.

I carried a deactivated Thompson A1 while I was in Europe. I could have activated by inserting a battlefield found bolt.

You can buy a good M42 Jump Suit on eBay right now for $99.00.

And don't forget this country is swamped with Army-Navy Stores. One shop I went to after Saving Private Ryan was filmed had some of the uniforms and helmet used and they were cheaper than the prices you quoted above.

The uniform I put together while in Europe completely came from eBay and every piece was authentic. The most I paid was $550.00 for my Thompson and that came off the German market. The largest reenacting WWII group complete with vehicles including armor in Europe is a group called "Kelly's Heroes".

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 06:51 PM
Wow, if you think most of WWII stuff is cheap, let me introduce you to the Deutsch side, both WWI, and WWII. Now, considering that we are talking about authenticity, I wont mention the majority of vendors providing German stuff. In order to get started in an "authentic" German WWII unit, you need well over $1,000. I'll give you a good estimate below:

I. Bleuse... Janke ... $430

II. Hosen... Janke... $220

III. M-43 cap (good repop)... $50-$70

IV. Hemd (shirt)... $50

V. Steinhelm (helmet) depending on what model, shell price around $150, w/liner around $200

VI. Canteen... $50-$80

VII. Bread Bag $20-$50

VIII. Gas mask canister w/out gas mask... $75+

IX. Belt $25

X. Buckle... $30-$100 (ORIGINAL)

XI. K-98 karbine... $300+

Bayonet $50+

Ankle boots... $200+

Now, AS YOU WELL KNOW WITH reenacting, I have left some of the extras out. Owning a mantel (overcoat), and other extras, will put your investment well above $1,000. WWI is remotely similar, but now there i s a source for uniforms that will save the reenactor a little bit of $.

David Long

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 06:52 PM
You cannot tell me that WW2 is cheaper, because it just ain't so.




Been there Done that.....in Europe with groups from Germany, Belguim and Holland.

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 06:55 PM
Steinhelm(helmet)







David Long

Stahlhelm and it depends upon what model.

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 06:57 PM
[QUOTE=JEBeedle]It sounds like your son wants to do more cowboy and Indians than having to stand in line and listen to orders.

I would try to encourage him to try both and see what he likes the best because it sounds like he is judging what war to reenact by what movie he likes the most. Also it sounds like he is making his decision base on his friends and that is a dead end road.

I started reenacting when I was in high school and I was never made fun of or was called a nerd.

I don't think that WW2 is having a big influence on CW reenacting I have seen ww2 reenactors and they don’t seem to put to many men in the field and they are not very well organized.[/QUOTE

Mr. Beedle, I agree with most of what you have said. I don't think that a good number of guys are leaving C.W. to do WWI & WWII, but some are. However, there are quite a few guys, from the C.W. community, who are now partaking in WWI, as well as WWII reenacting. So, most guys are simply adding another time-period to their belts. I have done C.W. for almost fourteen years, Rev war for one year, and WWII for two years. I did get out of WWII for a stint, but I am now getting back into both, WWI ....and WWII. I think that the organization is a little better in WWI....when comparing it toWWII, but I don't believe that all WWII guys are playing cowboys & Indians. Having said that, I do believe that a good deal of WWII events are, indeed turning into..... the "shootout at the Ok Coral," type of events.
I would suggest that your son pick the time period to reenact of his choice. Advise him to do the time period he is most interested in. IMHO, if one choses to reenact because of more- shooting,running around, and playing, then he is getting into the hobby for the wrong reasons.

Dave Long

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 07:00 PM
There is a german M40 uniform blouse and trousers on Ebay right now for $120.00

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 07:05 PM
Yes, it may be on e-bay, but who is the maker, and what is the level of accuracy. I believe you are reffering to "Hong-Kong Keith." The only maker of tunics, who sell them accurately as... " off the rack" models, are Janke. Most other tunics, which are too numerous to name, require quite a bit of altering, in order to make them accurate.

Yes, you are quite right, the price of a stanhelm depends upon the model. M35's are typically more expensive than m-40's...and m-42's.
Dave Long

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 07:11 PM
M-35...$75.00. You can pick up an original for $175.00.

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 07:26 PM
Where???????????????

JEBeedle
01-16-2007, 07:27 PM
I would suggest that your son pick the time period to reenact of his choice. Advise him to do the time period he is most interested in. IMHO, if one choses to reenact because of more- shooting,running around, and playing, then he is getting into the hobby for the wrong reasons.

Dave Long

I would agree with you.

On the subject of the WW2 reenactments I was judging them on what I have seen. I know that not all WW2 reenactors play cowboys and Indians at events.

csuppelsa
01-16-2007, 07:35 PM
You want to save money? Go play Soviet.

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 07:35 PM
Where???????????????

Ebay..............

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 07:36 PM
You want to save money? Go play Soviet. You can probably get a nuke cheap too. :D

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 07:37 PM
Trooper,

Thanks for the information. I'll have to grab one.

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 07:40 PM
Joe,

You are right though, and I totally agree, most WWII stuff, from what I have seen as well, is cowboy & Indian. There are some good groups out there, but yes, you are right.
2nd Minn. Hmm, that's interesting. One of my ancestors,who served in the 60th NC, was captured by members of the 2nd Minn......

Soviet is indeed cheaper, but how many Eastern fronts events are going on?

tompritchett
01-16-2007, 07:52 PM
You can probably get a nuke cheap too.

Unfortunately, there are stories that at least one has indeed been bought. It's last "known" location was when it was smuggled into Italy several years ago.

John Legg
01-16-2007, 07:56 PM
Not to put anyone down... but WWII is just going out to fire a weapon. Im going to start ww2 reenacting, but CW is 110% better.

John

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 08:01 PM
Unfortunately, there are stories that at least one has indeed been bought. It's last "known" location was when it was smuggled into Italy several years ago.

and Italy broke it down and is selling it in powder form to Sushi Houses.....:D :D :D

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 08:05 PM
Not to put anyone down... but WWII is just going out to fire a weapon. Im going to start ww2 reenacting, but CW is 110% better.

John

If you would enjoy black powder shooting go milita F&I. At most all event they do live firing competitions with cash prizes. The only items that are expensive is a good handmade flint rifle and bag.

JEBeedle
01-16-2007, 08:30 PM
2nd Minn. Hmm, that's interesting. One of my ancestors,who served in the 60th NC, was captured by members of the 2nd Minn......

I hope that he made it home alright after the war. :)

tompritchett
01-16-2007, 08:36 PM
If you would enjoy black powder shooting go milita F&I.

Or join the NSSA. They even have CW shooting contests.

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 09:26 PM
John,

What WWII unit are you going to join? Yes, there is a lot of shooting, typically, at WWII events. However, certain units do emphasize living histories. There is more to WWII than just blowing away ammunition. I've heard that WWI is the "reenactors reenactment." It's supposed to be pretty cool.
I've been doing civil war since I was a kid, and I still love it. However, it is kind of nice to have another time period, which I enjoy, to recreate.

David Long

Trooper Graham
01-16-2007, 09:32 PM
Or join the NSSA. They even have CW shooting contests.

That's something I didn't know. I'll check more into that. I need some cash to continue upgrading......:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

John Legg
01-16-2007, 09:41 PM
David,


I haven't really decided. I cant seem to find any good suppliers that aren't considered Farby vendors. Since I would be new to this I would like some more information before I just jump right in.


Cheers,

madisontigers
01-16-2007, 11:11 PM
John,

Fire me an e-mail at Legioxx2002@yahoo.com, if you would like me to share what information I have. I've got a good vendor list, which was composed by a respected German reenactor. I'm not to certain about allied stuff, though. Right now I'm focusing on putting my WWI kit together.

Frenchie
01-17-2007, 12:20 AM
I'm not sure if this is allowed, apologies if it isn't. I've had some talks with Nick Sekela about WW2 uniforms and equipment and the man knows his stuff about that too. IMO you can't do better. Look him up http://www.njsekela.com/

Rob Weaver
01-17-2007, 09:21 AM
John,

Fire me an e-mail at Legioxx2002@yahoo.com, if you would like me to share what information I have. I've got a good vendor list, which was composed by a respected German reenactor. I'm not to certain about allied stuff, though. Right now I'm focusing on putting my WWI kit together.
You don't know Matthew Amt do you? I think you're right about movies like "SPR" and "BoB" have had the same recruiting impact for WW II reenactors that "Glory" and "Gettysburg" had for CW a wile back. Also it's a timeperiod that's retreating into history. The vets are passing away at a daily rate, and there's been a great deal of media publicity about the "greatest generation." The sense of honoring someone who could have been your grandfather rather than your 4Xgrandfather puts an emotional spin on it. Then there's the small unit nature of the tactics. It's immediately gratifying because the basic tactical unit, the squad, can conduct independent actions with a small number of men. To a generation that's grown up not on Bonanza but Star Wars, the uniforms and equipment of WW II have a historical quality, but yet are "familiar:" ie functional, battlefield-driven, etc. I don't do WW II. I got my fill of the combat arms riding in a tank for real, so I don't even wargame that period. When I have the desire to run around in the woods shooting at people, I play paintball. That gets outside all historical "what-ifs." I don't think the advent of WW II reenacting necessarily needs to generate an "us vs. them" competition.

Spare_Man
01-17-2007, 10:31 AM
It sounds like your son wants to do more cowboy and Indians than having to stand in line and listen to orders. Son?! I'll have you know that boy did not spring from my loins!! He's my nephew! (I clearly stated that in my initial post). ;)

JEBeedle
01-17-2007, 01:10 PM
Son?! I'll have you know that boy did not spring from my loins!! He's my nephew! (I clearly stated that in my initial post). ;)

My mistake, I must have read through it to fast. :cool:

bob 125th nysvi
01-22-2007, 12:24 PM
Legioxx2002@yahoo.com

Roman legion reenactment too?

Get your stuff from Museum Replicas in Georgia?

That would be cool except I'd be the world's largest legionary.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

madisontigers
01-22-2007, 10:08 PM
Bob,

Right now, I am just a Roman history enthusiast. One day, I do indeed plan to partake in Roman reenacting, but right now, school and work only allow me the time to reenact a couple of time periods. But yes, I do love ancient history.

David Long

CivilWarBuff1863
01-24-2007, 03:24 AM
I think that if CW is too nerdy then how come in WWII just about every advancement in technology came straight from the CW? Every future has a past, every past has a future.

sbl
01-24-2007, 06:13 AM
I think that if CW is too nerdy then how come in WWII just about every advancement in technology came straight from the CW? Every future has a past, every past has a future.


John,
It might be that CW REENACTORS are considered too nerdy and not the period of the Civil War. I think some folks like the speedier fire power of even WW II rifles over a single shot muzzle loader.

tompritchett
01-24-2007, 10:49 AM
I think that if CW is too nerdy then how come in WWII just about every advancement in technology came straight from the CW? Every future has a past, every past has a future.

??????

- The tank (WWI)
- The FM radio, which made Bltizkrieg possible; remember the telegraph was still used in WWII so the radio was not just an evolution of that technology)
- The telephone - both normal and field
- The airplane, a heavier than air flying machine (sorry the use of balloons is a totally different technology)
- The atomic bomb
- The semi-automatic rifle (based upon the air recoil mechanism of the WWI Maxin machine gun)
- The flame thrower
- Close-air support and strategic bombing
- The jet engine
- Liquid fueled rocket engines (Medium range ballistic missles)
- Radar

Yes, every war builds upon the technology of the previous, but each also spawns their own explosive growth in new technology.

sbl
01-24-2007, 02:02 PM
Thomas,

The practical use of the submarine, the revolving gun turret, repeating firearms, and the beginning of general use of ironclad ships might be some CW/WBTS era innovations CWBUFF is talking about.

toptimlrd
01-24-2007, 11:24 PM
Thomas,

The practical use of the submarine, the revolving gun turret, repeating firearms, and the beginning of general use of ironclad ships might be some CW/WBTS era innovations CWBUFF is talking about.

Add to that trench warfare, land mines, repeating arms, the machine gun (albeit very late war).....

tompritchett
01-25-2007, 03:10 AM
I will agree that there were many WWII technologies that in their very earliest form saw use in the CW, I was just having trouble with the "just about every" part of the statement. There were also many that were developed after the CW. Some others that I did not mention were sonar, the internal combustion machine, the blowback bolt of the submachine gun.

sbl
01-25-2007, 06:19 AM
"trench warfare"

Robert,

Extended periods of trench warfare are part of seige warfare as well and go back further than the CW/WBTS. The Crimean War had examples of units taking fixed trenches and earthworks in the seige of Sebastipol.

tompritchett
01-25-2007, 10:29 AM
Extended periods of trench warfare are part of seige warfare as well and go back further than the CW/WBTS. The Crimean War had examples of units taking fixed trenches and earthworks in the seige of Sebastipol.

Do not forget the seige of Yorktown by Washington's troops.

sbl
01-25-2007, 12:28 PM
Do not forget the seige of Yorktown by Washington's troops.

(Heck, I was in the 1981 reenactment.)


Thomas,

All that trench trench stuff goes waaaaayy back, but I can't think of an example of the type of stalemated warfare lasting for years that charecterized WW I.

Mothers-Finest
01-25-2007, 08:06 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but didnt they issue Civil War era hardtack to soldiers duriong WW1?

Trooper Graham
01-25-2007, 08:14 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but didnt they issue Civil War era hardtack to soldiers duriong WW1?

The biscuits along with any chocolate bars that came in C-rations packed circ 1955 that we ate in 1965 we called them John Wayne Biscuits and Bars. Only John Wayne could have ate them. :rolleyes:

Sgt_Pepper
01-26-2007, 01:22 AM
Korean War veterans will tell you about crates of artillery ammunition dated 1918. That was two wars ago, not the previous one. Likewise, GIs were issued K rations dated 1943. I've been asked why this was so, when by 1945 the USA had been producing nearly as much food, ammunition and armaments as the rest of the world put together.

It has to do with logistics. The new aircraft, tanks, ships, weapons, ammunition, food, clothing, et cetera were either just delivered to Europe and the Pacific or on their way on the brand-new Victory Ships, while the old stuff from the Great War gathered dust in warehouses back home. When the great wind-down came it was easier to get rid of the new stuff right there than to send it back, toss out the old stuff and replace it with the new.

Fleets of shiny new Victory Ships full of shiny new supplies were sunk in deep water. Aircraft by the thousands were scrapped on the tarmacs of Europe. Entire armored divisions went home without their tracks, which were smelted down into building materials.

The short-sightedness of this practice became obvious just five years later. Not that anyone in power learned from it - those who warned against it were, as usual, ignored at best or vilified at worst. "Si vis pacem, para bellum" may well be the most ignored moral lesson in this country.

Frenchie
01-26-2007, 02:59 AM
Sergeant, I see you're a fellow student of military logistics and philosophy. How about this?:

"We trained very hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization." - Gaius Petronius, 1st Century AD

Trooper Graham
01-26-2007, 10:40 AM
Korean War veterans will tell you about crates of artillery ammunition dated 1918. That was two wars ago, not the previous one. Likewise, GIs were issued K rations dated 1943. I've been asked why this was so, when by 1945 the USA had been producing nearly as much food, ammunition and armaments as the rest of the world put together.

It has to do with logistics. The new aircraft, tanks, ships, weapons, ammunition, food, clothing, et cetera were either just delivered to Europe and the Pacific or on their way on the brand-new Victory Ships, while the old stuff from the Great War gathered dust in warehouses back home. When the great wind-down came it was easier to get rid of the new stuff right there than to send it back, toss out the old stuff and replace it with the new.

Fleets of shiny new Victory Ships full of shiny new supplies were sunk in deep water. Aircraft by the thousands were scrapped on the tarmacs of Europe. Entire armored divisions went home without their tracks, which were smelted down into building materials.

The short-sightedness of this practice became obvious just five years later. Not that anyone in power learned from it - those who warned against it were, as usual, ignored at best or vilified at worst. "Si vis pacem, para bellum" may well be the most ignored moral lesson in this country.

Would you not take into consideration that after WWI there was a drastic draw down in troops and equipment? After all so many believed that WWI was the war to end all wars. During the time between wars there was a great depression and many of the K rations were issued out to the civilian population also Rooselvelts New Deal put people back to work and many went to work for the government building roads, clearing and planting forest and a vast amount of those rations from WWI was issued out to these civilian work forces.
When the old C rations replaced the K rations they had a life expectancy of ten years. They were eventually replaced by the dehydrated MRE's which were called LRRP rations beause the LRRPs and SF got them first before they ended up in the front line troops but while they were eating LRRPs the troops in Europe were still eating C's. When a case of C's had reached there ten year date they still were not replaced with LRRP's but with a seven or eight year old case of C's.
I've read no where that equipment such has tanks, artillery etc etc were smelted down after WWII. Equipment continued to be maintained as occupational forces dug further in for a long stay. As equipment was eventually replaced the old stuff was sold off to equip new armies of Belguim, Holland and Italy. When I was in Italy in the 60s the Sherman tank was still in their arsenal. When I went through basic in the 60's I was issued and qualified with an M14. Half way through basic it was exchanged for the M-16 and had to requalify. When I was sent to Italy I was issued an M-1. Two years later when I was sent to Nam my first issue was a 45 cal M-3 Greasegun with a date of 1944.
The military has always and will always having a battle in congress for money to either buy, upgrade or for upkeep of each services equipment and they are not going to destroy servicable tanks, ships and weapons when they can be sold to another government when finally replaced. The troop divisions heading for Nam went by liberty ships built in WWII.

Was not the turret explosion on a battleship a few years ago blamed on old powder from a war long past?

Sorry, but I can not agree with your logistics logic.

I do remember that all the the MTB's were destroyed that were in the Phillipines after WWII. These types of boats though were never to be used again and were actually cheaper to destroy than to maintain for future use. There are incidents that you spoke of ships loaded and being sunk but those were on an individual basis and not a policy.

CivilWarBuff1863
01-26-2007, 11:15 AM
Thomas,

The practical use of the submarine, the revolving gun turret, repeating firearms, and the beginning of general use of ironclad ships might be some CW/WBTS era innovations CWBUFF is talking about.


That's exactly what I'm talking about.

If it wasn't for those earlier advancments WWII would've gotten as far as it should. So those WWII buffs had better look a little more into the past and we better look at how the Hunley came into being. Remember the "Turtle" during the Rev. War? That's how it started.

tompritchett
01-26-2007, 11:27 AM
If it wasn't for those earlier advancments WWII would've gotten as far as it should. So those WWII buffs had better look a little more into the past and we better look at how the Hunley came into being. Remember the "Turtle" during the Rev. War? That's how it started.

I agree with the fact that many military technologies of WWII can be traced back, at least conceptually, to the CW. I just had a problem with your claim that "just about every advancement in technology" did. The latter implies something along the range of 90% or more, while I was merely pointing out that there were also many technologies used in WWII that were developed after the CW.

sbl
01-26-2007, 12:11 PM
...massive armies equiped and provisioned by industry, transported by rail and sea, educated by public schools, and informed by national mail and newspapers?


(Details may vary.)

15thiowac
01-31-2007, 01:25 PM
I started reenacting when I was in high school and I was never made fun of or was called a nerd.


Joe,
Was that first reenactment somewhere in Virginia?

5TH.NYSV
01-31-2007, 06:42 PM
In a nutshell, "Who cares". Anything concerning any period of American history worth doing (i.e. living history) is worth doing well.

I personally could give a fat rats a** about who's weapon costs more or so on. Apples and oranges. The big question is why are you doing what you do in the first place?

If you are worried about being cool then you don't belong out there because you've got the wrong idea to begin with.

I've done several periods over the years including WWII. There are nut cases in every hobby but the hard core (SS) wacko's take the cake. But I digress.

Cost is not a factor there is no way you can compare the cost of a tank to a CW field gun. Living history in any period exsists for one reason, to preserve the memory of the past deeds of our ancestors and their sacrifices. I heard it best at FIG one year where a woman was starting to berate a individual for portraying an SS soldier. She was stopped by a 101st buldge veteran who told her he appreciated what these boys were doing because if they didn't, people like her would never understand what we were fighting against. "Our enemy was much more advanced then we were in many respects, quite frankly I was scared to death of em" he said.

We do what we do to honor them. If you are so gung ho about looking cool, who has the most expensive gun or playing cowboys and indians then I would suggest you check in with your neighborhood recruiting office. Get the play time out of your system in the real military then you just might understand what it is you are trying to do and why.

Others mileage may vary.

KF
Semper Fi

Wounded_Zouave
02-03-2007, 05:12 PM
Was not the turret explosion on a battleship a few years ago blamed on old powder from a war long past?No. Post-incident analyses of the charges in the USS lowa's powder magazines confirmed that they were in a safe, stable condition. The cause of the explosion, though never determined with certainty, is generally believed to have been static electricity igniting loose powder. The loose powder may have been generated by a proceedural error in using the mechanical ram to seat the bag firmly against the shell. Too much pressure may have been applied, but we'll never know for sure.

After the investigation (which involved one of the most shameful incidents of calumny in naval history) the Navy changed the powder-handling procedures.

The Iowa is also the same ship the San Fransisco city council voted not to have placed in the city as a memorial/museum because it would not be "politically correct." Other cities are now bidding for the privelege.

But, speaking of old rations and equipment being re-issued in later wars, the USS Iowa and USS Wisconsin, even if turned over to a city must:

... not be altered in any way that would impair their military utility

... must be preserved in their present condition through the continued use of cathodic protection and dehumidification systems and any other preservation methods as needed

.... must preserve an adequate number of spare parts and unique equipment such as 16 inch gun barrels and projectiles, if reactivated; and

... the Navy must prepare plans for the rapid reactivation of the battleships should they be returned to the Navy in the event of a national emergency.

Anyone who thinks we live in an age of disposables needs to look at these battleships as well as our aging but still active B-52 fleet. These suckers were not really designed or built to last this long, but the craftmanship that went into them is something that can't be thrown out... just like granddad's old coon-hunting rifle on the wall. It can be used again if needed.

GaWildcat
02-04-2007, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=Sgt_Pepper]Korean War veterans will tell you about crates of artillery ammunition dated 1918. That was two wars ago, not the previous one. Likewise, GIs were issued K rations dated 1943. I've been asked why this was so, when by 1945 the USA had been producing nearly as much food, ammunition and armaments as the rest of the world put together. [QUOTE]

When I was stationed among the Frozen Chosen (not Cho-sen as in resovoir)
of the 6th Infantry Division (Light) at Fts Richardson and Wainwright, AK, we had several M101A1 105mm Howitzers whose breeches were stamped between 1943 and 1946. THis was in the 90s. The Army figured out that this was the best light gun for use under extreme arctic conditions. They were eventually replaced by the M119 Light Gun (British Light Gun).

Frenchie
02-04-2007, 11:52 AM
In the late '80s I worked for a company that did military logistics contract stuff. I was a Technical Analyst (whoop-de-doo). One project I handled was to "translate" the tech manual for the British M118 Towed Light Howitzer from British English and specs to DoD standard. That gun is the one that became the M119. I worked with a fellow from the Nottingham office named Guy Fairweather, who showed me the loading and firing procedure for it and convinced me we were making a mistake in modifying the gun for our old 105mm ammo instead of adopting the superior British "Abbott" round.

vamick
02-05-2007, 12:28 PM
hey...anybody out there wanna trade an original M1 carbine web leg scabbard for a hand sewn mac saddle #2 er 3 seat?? er marine thompson 30 rnd. web gear marked 1944???....:D well...it was worth a try