Chevrons

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

Hello,

I'm just curious if someone might know of an individual who produces Sgt. Maj. Chevrons out of silk as stated in the '61 US Army Regs. All I can find are Worsted. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Warmest Regards,
August Marchetti

[Frenchie]

If I may, I'd like to append my own questions: Are Ordnance Sergeant chevrons also to be made of silk, and are they available as well?

[Ephraim_Zook]

Yeah. There is a guy out on the left coast who makes silk chevrons. I've got to find my notes. The Sgt Maj at the Ft Delaware Field Music School two years ago had silk chevrons, and recently I saw a post (maybe over at A/C) about where to obtain them.

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

I had checked the A/C forum but was unable to find a link to the vendor or reference to chevrons made of silk.

Thanks again,

August Marchetti

[GreencoatCross]

As long as I can find the correct type of silk ribbon, I can make them. I'm heading to the local fashion fabrics store right now so I'll see what they have.

Brian White
Wambaugh, White, & Co.
www.wwandcompany.com

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

Thank you very kindly. Keep me posted on what you find!

Thanks again,

August Marchetti

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

If I may, I'd like to append my own questions: Are Ordnance Sergeant chevrons also to be made of silk, and are they available as well?

Sorry I didn't see your question Frenchie. According to the US Army Regs, in reference to chevrons:
"106...For an Ordnance Sergeant - three bars and a star, in silk."

[3rdUSRedleg]

Sir;
If I may....."W. K. Osman" (Museum Quality Insignias) foragecaps@earthlink.net

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

Thank you kindly sir.

[John Legg]

I know this is kind of off subject on Silk Cheverons, but...

I have seen some photos of original Velvet cheverons. I belive they are velvet or something of that sort.


John

[Lee Ragan]

I'm glad to see someone bring up the subject of silk chevrons. I've been a military insignia collector for over 30 years & chevrons have long been a subject of study for me. When I got into reenacting about 13 or 14 years ago, I noticed that no regimental NCO's wore silk chevrons as prescribed in US Army regs of the day. To this day, I have never seen anyone wearing silk stripes. They are always made of worsted tape. Silk rank devices were also worn by Hospital Stewards. In the US Army of the time, all NCO's above 1st Sergeant wore silk chevrons (or at least were supposed to according to regs).
I have never heard of velvet chevrons, but that doesn't mean "homemade", chevrons couldn't have been made from velvet.
Custom made chevrons continued to be worn by some NCO's even after the introduction of the standardized "Johnson" pattern chevrons of 1872. I guess it makes sense that custom and odd-ball chevrons could have been used in the 1860's at least in the state regiments.
Lee Ragan

[John Legg]

about the Velvet cheverons heres some info on the coat,

They were on the Frock of Sgt.William F. Tilson. 2nd U.S.S.S.(Berdans).

The coat was a Forest Green Color.
Manufactured at Schuylkill Arsenal

The Green Cloth is made by Redyeing Standard Dark Blue to the desired Hue.

The Cheverons are Dark Green Velvet.
Black Hard Rubber Buttons.

Found on Page 245 of Don Troioni's Regiments and Uniforms of the Civil War.

interesting eh?
Cheers,

John

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

I've tried the email address which was suggested but the owner of the email address was unable to comply with my request of a pair of correct silk sgt. maj. stripes. The biggest problem I think is that nobody knows what type of silk they were made with. What kind of silk do they use to reproduce "correct" officer's sashes these days? Is it possible these chevrons could be made by the same silk which are being used to produce the Officer's sash? I haven't found anything leading me to believe that there is a difference in silk between the sash and the chevrons. I could be wrong, worth a thought. I was going to try to make a pair but gave up on the notion. Being out of options, I just decided to order a pair of Worsted sgt. maj. chevs. I didn't think they'd be so hard to find haha.

I'm glad to see someone bring up the subject of silk chevrons. I've been a military insignia collector for over 30 years & chevrons have long been a subject of study for me. When I got into reenacting about 13 or 14 years ago, I noticed that no regimental NCO's wore silk chevrons as prescribed in US Army regs of the day. To this day, I have never seen anyone wearing silk stripes. They are always made of worsted tape. Silk rank devices were also worn by Hospital Stewards. In the US Army of the time, all NCO's above 1st Sergeant wore silk chevrons (or at least were supposed to according to regs).
Lee Ragan

[Sgt_Pepper]

On the subject of the correct type of silk to be used: I'll be interested to see if anyone brings up a question along the lines of, "Are the worms that spun this silk direct descendants of the worms that made the silk used for NCO chevrons during the War, and have they been raised on the same diet, etc.?"

I think I'll go take two aspirin and lay down for a while.

[Ephraim_Zook]

Not sure about lineal descendants, but silkworms eat only mulberry leaves, so we can be pretty certain about the diet. :-)

On the subject of the correct type of silk to be used: I'll be interested to see if anyone brings up a question along the lines of, "Are the worms that spun this silk direct descendants of the worms that made the silk used for NCO chevrons during the War, and have they been raised on the same diet, etc.?"

I think I'll go take two aspirin and lay down for a while.

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

:confused: I am not quite sure whether that was a joke, or if you were mocking my post.

On the subject of the correct type of silk to be used: I'll be interested to see if anyone brings up a question along the lines of, "Are the worms that spun this silk direct descendants of the worms that made the silk used for NCO chevrons during the War, and have they been raised on the same diet, etc.?"

I think I'll go take two aspirin and lay down for a while.

[Sgt_Pepper]

:confused: I am not quite sure whether that was a joke, or if you were mocking my post.

My apologies, sir, for not making myself more clear. No mocking of your post was intended. It was a humorous poke at the tendency of some reenactors to go overboard when analyzing the authenticity of items and materials. One wonders, for instance, if some of them might insist that a hat not made using mercuric compounds, the toxic affects of which gave rise to the notion of the "mad hatter", isn't up to their standards. :shock:

[Sgt_Pepper]

Not sure about lineal descendants, but silkworms eat only mulberry leaves, so we can be pretty certain about the diet. :-)

Yes, of course, but the question may arise as to whether the bushes have been genetically altered, thereby affecting the diet... never mind... :D

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

My apologies as well for misunderstanding. :)

My apologies, sir, for not making myself more clear. No mocking of your post was intended. It was a humorous poke at the tendency of some reenactors to go overboard when analyzing the authenticity of items and materials. One wonders, for instance, if some of them might insist that a hat not made using mercuric compounds, the toxic affects of which gave rise to the notion of the "mad hatter", isn't up to their standards. :shock:

[Lee Ragan]

Sgt. Pepper,
No apologies required for me.... I know exactly where you are coming from! We nit-pick this stuff to death sometimes, and then go out & have these battle reenactments where all the infantry look like duck hunters, the cavalry does "dance of the sabre faries", and the artillery is half full of girls dressed as men. Makes ya wonder sometimes.

[tompritchett]

One wonders, for instance, if some of them might insist that a hat not made using mercuric compounds, the toxic affects of which gave rise to the notion of the "mad hatter", isn't up to their standards.

Given the behavior of some reenactors on this and other forums, I am not sure that they aren't using the mercury based compounds. We definitely get fits of "mad" behavior every now and then here. :)

[GreencoatCross]

For those interested;

The local store does have some silk satin ribbon but it's the wide variety. I've seen only a few original pairs of silk chevrons, most of which were made from 1/2" wide woven silk ribbon, but one pair in particular was made from the wider tape which had the edges turned under.

Currently the store has only white, cream, maroon, and black silk satin ribbon. If a blue dye won't work on the white or cream colored ribbon I may be able to purchase a roll of sky blue or medium blue for chevrons. If anyone is interested I would still be more than happy to help out with a set of silk staff NCO chevrons.

Regarding the topic of velvet chevrons, the Sgt. William F. Tilson (Co. E 2nd U.S.S.S.) coat is the only original Federal garment I have viewed and handled to have such unique chevrons. The length of velvet needed for these chevrons was no doubt purchased by Tilson himself and attached to the coat in the field or purchased ready-made from the regimental sutler. The 1st and 2nd U.S.S.S. regiments did have an operational sutler throughout the winter of 1863-1864...the commander of the 1st Regt. at that time ordered that each company must fork over ten cents per man for the regimental sutlery fund. The intention was to purchase proper rank insignia as well as other necessary amenities for the men.

However, other garments I have viewed in more than one private collection do feature other unique forms of NCO rank. Woven wool or cotton tape bordered by metallic braid as well as super-thin ribbed, checkered, or herringbone woven tapes come to mind.

Brian White
Wambaugh, White, & Co.
www.wwandcompany.com

[JW&CO]

Brian,
Would you have the means and ability to also produce correct hospital steward chevrons? If so, I would be most interested, as would many since there is no other alternative than the current incorrect ones on the market. I have some fine photos of different kinds I would be interested in.

[GreencoatCross]

Hospital steward chevrons are another matter entirely....they'd be simple for me to produce if I knew how to embroider. Hand embroidery probably isn't too hard, but I have yet to study a pair of original hosp. steward chevrons.

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

Greencoat,

I'm definitely interested in a set. Even though I've already ordered a set from Orchard Hill (which seem nearly non-responsive to my questions and/or order...)

Email me first with your quote. kanesrifles@comcast.net

thanks

[Orchard Hill]

August;

I just saw your post here. In response to your comments; we replied to your email querry regarding silk chevron availability on 1/22. Perhaps you did not receive the email? I'll respond here, currently we do not offer such.
We just received your order on 1/19. The order is currently in queue. Any further questions just shoot me an email, I'll get back with you as quickly as I can. I appreciate your patience.

Best Regards;

[Pennsylvania Reserves]

Thanks for getting back to me! I sent you a pm.