Canteen Skillet??

[pvt_jb]

Hello everyone,

I have found a canteen half skillet with a iron handle from Blockade Runner. They say it is a copy from an original. I thought this might be another good option beside the traditional skillet but not sure if it is a good idea. Any opinions?

http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg26.htm

Thank you for your input.

Jeremy Bevard

[jurgitemvaletem]

I reccomend purchasing the canteen half itself, not the one with the handle. You can later add to it to suit your needs and wishes. I purchsed the plain canteen half several years ago and cut a half circle in the top and completed the circle with wire. It works great for me. I know a guy who poked 2 holes in the side and uses a long forked piece of wire to hold it with. They prove to invaluable when going long distances on the march, but still needing to cook your food.

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem

[John Legg]

My Pard punched One hole in His canteen half. So he can use his bayonet to pick it up/move it away from the fire. As Bayonets are useful for every think.


The Story is, from what i have herd. Soldiers would take their fallen Brother in Arms Canteens, and throw them into the fire. This would Melt the soldering(or what ever it is) and dis-connect the two halves. Then they can use it for cooking.

Cheers,

John

[Jim Mayo]

Canteen halves are usually found in yankee winter camps. Notice I said usually. I have never seen one either CS or US that was not found in a winter camp or frequently used pickett camp. The ones with any kind of handle or evidence of a handle ever being attached are even rarer. IMO these were used more for plates than skillets.

[bob 125th nysvi]

Canteen halves are usually found in yankee winter camps. Notice I said usually. I have never seen one either CS or US that was not found in a winter camp or frequently used pickett camp. The ones with any kind of handle or evidence of a handle ever being attached are even rarer. IMO these were used more for plates than skillets.

makes no sense Jim.

What were they using as plates the rest of the time?


As for me I use one with just a wire to hang it from the canteen with serves as skillet and plate. Light weight, doesn't take up any packing room and is with me always (never know when a meal might just come my way.)

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[Jim Mayo]

makes no sense Jim.

What were they using as plates the rest of the time?




I have often wondered the same thing. It is easier to document the use of plates and such in camp than on campaign.

For camp or garrison, either the plates have rusted away to nothing or else they didn't use them much. Once in a while you will find remains of a tin plate or more often shards from china in a hut site or trash pit but not in the quantity you would expect to be left by a lot of soldiers. It is also possible that many of these type items were picked up in the early days of relic hunting or right after the war for civilian use.

From reading accounts while looking for clues on what they used as eating implements on campaign, I think they must have used bannana leaves and sticks. Seriously, I think they either cooked and ate from the skillet, cooked in tin cups or cooked bread or cone pone on rocks and boards. I have read of that happening more than the use of cooking gear. It is also possible that one or two guys in a mess may have carried a plate. Just not everybody. When you look at what rations were issued while on the march it is possible to cook most everything that needs cooking on the above type items without having a plate. I also think they used their hands much more than we do in the preparation of food. I have read of how dirty one got while on campaign and the wiping of hands on coat tails or pants. When it comes down to it, corn meal and water can be mixed on a tarred haversack and cooked on a hot rock. I think a lot of that went on. I think Yankees may have had it a little better because of the supply situation. It still doesn't take a plate to hold hardtack.

[Ohioreb1861]

I will have to agree with Jim, and I have also never seen a skillet made of a canteen half with a handle.

I think its a cheap way out of using a real skillet. I'm also not a fan of using a canteen half, wait till you use the bayonet to pick up the half and dump dinner in the fire. I'd be going to the sutler next :D

[bob 125th nysvi]

I will have to agree with Jim, and I have also never seen a skillet made of a canteen half with a handle.

I think its a cheap way out of using a real skillet. I'm also not a fan of using a canteen half, wait till you use the bayonet to pick up the half and dump dinner in the fire. I'd be going to the sutler next :D

Too many of you guys don't spend enough time in the kitchen.

It is actually very easy to reach for a canteen half on a well mannered fire using a huckabuck towel to snatch it off the fire. Where do you think the idea for hot mitts came from?

Notice I said 'well mannered' fire. Too often campfires become the province of the unit pyromaniac.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[Dignann]

Out of curiosity, where does our practice of using canteen halves for cooking originate? I'm guessing from Hardtack and Coffee, Life of Billy Yank, or some similar source.

If anyone has specifice period references to cooking on canteen halves, please post them. I'm asking for specific accounts, not "I remember reading once."

Thanks.

Eric

[Minieball577]

John Billings writes of using the canteen half as a frying pan in Hardtack and Coffee, page 133-134, the Chapter entitled Army Rations.

"It was common sight on the march to see them (regular frying pans) borne aloft on a musket, to which they were lashed, or tucked beneath the straps of a knapsack. But there was another fry-pan which distanced these both in the respect of lightness and space. The soldier called in his own ingenuity to aid him here as in so many other directions and consequently the men could be seen by scores frying the food in their tin plate, held in the jaws of a split stick, or FULLY AS OFTEN an old canteen was unsoldered and its concave sides mustered into active duty as fry-pans."

I use this book as a "text book" in the class I teach about the war, and students (High School) get a kick out of references about soldier's ability to adapt things to their needs.

[Jim Mayo]

Out of curiosity, where does our practice of using canteen halves for cooking originate? I'm guessing from Hardtack and Coffee, Life of Billy Yank, or some similar source.



I am with Eric on this one. Both of these books were written more than 20 years after the war. A lot of details can become distorted in that amount of time. They were also written primarily as a story, not a documentary. For example: It is a good thing that Billings did not mention that someone wore a coon bone in his hat. How many reenactors would show up at the next event after reading the book with coon bones.

The question is "was a canteen halve ever used to cook on". The answer has to be YES. Stanley Phillips books on excavated relics has several pictured and they do turn up dug occasionally.

The other question is "was it common?" Based on recoveries and lack of supporting documentation I would say "NO". There are too many first hand accounts that mention cooking rations on the march or otherwise where other means of cooking are mentioned but never anything about canteen halves.

As for using a huckabuck towel, I wonder how many soldiers carried this sort of thing on the march. I doubt you could find many in the Confederate Army rank and file after the first year. Unless in a camp, I think these soldiers lived more spartan and close to the earth than many people realize. Of course I carry a huckabuck towel but then I am a sissy compared to the boys of 1861-65.

[pvt_jb]

Well, I am going to stay away from the "canteen skillet". I have fashoined a wire handle onto an existing canteen half I use to use only as a bowl. I think I will give that a try this year and put the farby "cold handle" sutler skillet away.

Jeremy Bevard

[Jim Mayo]

I have a picture of two that came out of a camp in Petersburg on this page.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

[bob 125th nysvi]

The question is "was a canteen halve ever used to cook on". The answer has to be YES. Stanley Phillips books on excavated relics has several pictured and they do turn up dug occasionally.

The other question is "was it common?" Based on recoveries and lack of supporting documentation I would say "NO". There are too many first hand accounts that mention cooking rations on the march or otherwise where other means of cooking are mentioned but never anything about canteen halves.

As for using a huckabuck towel, I wonder how many soldiers carried this sort of thing on the march. I doubt you could find many in the Confederate Army rank and file after the first year. Unless in a camp, I think these soldiers lived more spartan and close to the earth than many people realize. Of course I carry a huckabuck towel but then I am a sissy compared to the boys of 1861-65.

has nothing to do with the availablity of the item but it's durability, which is relatively limited.

My sister the archeologist (currently digging up a Roman city/camp in Serbia) says that the problem archeologists have is that the srviving goods fall mostly into two categories, high quality goods of relative durability and goods that were carefully preserved because of the symbolic value (grave goods for instance).

Very rarely do they come across large amounts of cheap shoddy everyday materials used by the common man and less by the poor.

And when a soldier said he cooked his rations he's only likely to mention UNUSUAL methods in his correspondence not what he came to accept as a common everyday practice. Even in diaries mundane details tend to be lacking because the writer assumes readers would know what he's talking about.

As to the huckabuck towel. We're not talking a bath towel here. They are generally very small and roll or fold up into a space smaller than your average shirt. A large rag might be a good comparison.

And if soldiers were washing their feet regularly (as per regs) or even shaving say twice a week a thing like a small towel would come in mighty hand.

And let's not assume the rebs were short on an item like this. It is small easily made at home and something a wife would probably pack in her husband's bag as he was getting ready to leave. southern housewives would have ready access to an item like this through out the war and could fabricate others out of worn clothing or linens.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[Ohioreb1861]

I'm no genious but, if canteen halves had a piece of wire on them to hold them on there canteens. Wouldn't the spout of the canteen have more wear around the spout? I figured the movement would do something. wouldn't there be evidence of wear on the canteen?



I did notice on one of the pictures, if you look at the spouts on this site there is some wear. you can see some wire rubs
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

[Jim Mayo]

has nothing to do with the availablity of the item but it's durability, which is relatively limited.

My sister the archeologist (currently digging up a Roman city/camp in Serbia) says that the problem archeologists have is that the srviving goods fall mostly into two categories, high quality goods of relative durability and goods that were carefully preserved because of the symbolic value (grave goods for instance).

Very rarely do they come across large amounts of cheap shoddy everyday materials used by the common man and less by the poor.


US Canteens were not shoddy or cheap. Confederate tin canteens have that honor. US canteens survive the elements relatively well. Many are dug with spots of shiney tin under the rust. You can't equate their survivability with that of items from the Roman era. Some may come apart when dug if they are in the bad soil conditions but they are there. That is also true for the halves. The two on my page were in good soil and survived in fair condition. A couple of others that were in wet soil came apart in my hands. The bullet struck canteen was in a breast work in good soil. There are spots of bright tin amongst the rust. Yankee tin as a rule was good tin.

[Robert A Mosher]

I'm no genious but, if canteen halves had a piece of wire on them to hold them on there canteens. Wouldn't the spout of the canteen have more wear around the spout? I figured the movement would do something. wouldn't there be evidence of wear on the canteen?

I did notice on one of the pictures, if you look at the spouts on this site there is some wear. you can see some wire rubs
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html


I'm not sure that this would have been a big problem. I was about the only one in my 20-man company that used a canteen half. I put a wire loop where the cutout was for the spout and that would fit over the spout of my existing canteen. I found that I could tuck the bottom edges of the canteen half underneath my leather canteen strap would ride up on the sides of the canteen. With the canteen strap holding the canteen half against the canteen and the blanket wool canteen cover, the combination of pressure from the strap and friction with the wool kept the canteen half in position and meant that there was little if any contact or rubbing between that wire loop and the spout of the canteen.

Just my own field experience, for what it's worth.

Robert A. Mosher

[bob 125th nysvi]

US Canteens were not shoddy or cheap. Confederate tin canteens have that honor. US canteens survive the elements relatively well. Many are dug with spots of shiney tin under the rust. You can't equate their survivability with that of items from the Roman era. Some may come apart when dug if they are in the bad soil conditions but they are there. That is also true for the halves. The two on my page were in good soil and survived in fair condition. A couple of others that were in wet soil came apart in my hands. The bullet struck canteen was in a breast work in good soil. There are spots of bright tin amongst the rust. Yankee tin as a rule was good tin.

the canteens were of reasonable quality based on the era.

Tin itself isn't as long lasting as other metals. For example iron in those same conditions would have rusted but surivies quite a lon gtime.

And of course soil composition has a HUGE effect on the quality of the product after it comes out of the soil.

But the thing people have not considered is that canteens were issued in the millions during the war, Yet the number of surviving examples are relative few based on that number.

Canteen halfs were not an "issue" item but a field expedient and correspondingly would exist in lesser numbers, both today and back then.

I guess the real issue when we discuss these things always becomes yeah it happened but how often?

5%, 10%, 25% ... 75%

At what percentage does something become common place?

All I'll say is if I was a CW soldier. And I had seen someone use one. And I had to lug something much heavier than it (read iron skillet) 20 miles a day everyday that did the same job.

I'd give you the skillet and switch to a canteen half.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[3rdUSRedleg]

Well, I am going to stay away from the "canteen skillet". I have fashoined a wire handle onto an existing canteen half I use to use only as a bowl. I think I will give that a try this year and put the farby "cold handle" sutler skillet away.

Jeremy Bevard


Sir;
Simply cut off the handle and file the raw edge on your stamped tin skillet
there is your frying and eating bowl....
You then can hand forge (on a fire at an event, or at home) some sort of handle from a piece of steel....then if you wish hand rivet it to the skillet at a later date after you have used it to your advantage to see what suits your needs.

[CapitolGuards]

Out of curiosity, where does our practice of using canteen halves for cooking originate? I'm guessing from Hardtack and Coffee, Life of Billy Yank, or some similar source.

If anyone has specifice period references to cooking on canteen halves, please post them. I'm asking for specific accounts, not "I remember reading once."


Eric:

A great deal of the re-enactor fondness for canteen halves comes from Wilbur Hinman's 1889 book, Corporal Si Klegg and His Pard, where Si and Shorty often used canteen halves for skillets, and there's even a wood ut drawing or two of Si using a forked stick as a handle for his half.

Camp Chase Gazette serialized Si Klegg in their magazine in the late 80s, and a reprint of the book became available around 1998 or so, when coincidentally there was a great revival of canteen-half cuisine in the campaigner camps.

Tom
6th Arkansas

[bob 125th nysvi]

is with a wire over the spout but to keep it from rattling I use a length of twine tied to the strap holders on the side.

The canteen half easily slides between the rope and canteen and is held firmly in place.

Stay away from synthetic twine but most craft stores sell hemp twine pretty cheap or if you live in farm country you can use some baling twine.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[Minieball577]

Eric:

A great deal of the re-enactor fondness for canteen halves comes from Wilbur Hinman's 1889 book, Corporal Si Klegg and His Pard, where Si and Shorty often used canteen halves for skillets, and there's even a wood ut drawing or two of Si using a forked stick as a handle for his half.

Camp Chase Gazette serialized Si Klegg in their magazine in the late 80s, and a reprint of the book became available around 1998 or so, when coincidentally there was a great revival of canteen-half cuisine in the campaigner camps.

Tom
6th Arkansas

As there probably should have been. These are PRIMARY sources, as is Hardtack and Coffee, even if removed from the war by some time. I would take the words or Hinman and Billings, soldiers who were there, over the amount of rusty tin we may or may not be able to locate 140 years later. No offense intended Mr. Kindred, I know relic recovery and metal detecting have their place in securing the overall picture, but not the Lion's share of that, in my opinion.

[terry sorchy]

I think the answer that is out there is, some men carried a small skillet, some just their cup, some may have carried a half a canteen. Some may even have lugged a spider. Some may have not carried anything. The fact is we will NEVER know the percentages, the amounts or the total popularity. Some units were able to have a limited amount of camp equipage carried on wagons.
Quiet often they cooked their rations prior to marching with company equipment.
Mens ideas really have'nt changed that much since the war. If you have a prefrence and its period correct and you think you would have done it or been able to carry it then do it.
I tend to think that some sutlers make things like the canteen half with a handle to intrigue us and to sell their stuff. I can see going to the trouble of carrying a small skillet around but I would never go to all the trouble of trying to afix a handle (where would you get it or the rivets ie nails anyway) to a canteen half.
Thats just on campaign, what they did to releive the bordem of winter camp is a whole different story.
Cheers
Terry Sorchy