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snk22nd
12-29-2006, 05:12 PM
I bought a repro bayonet. It is suppose to be an exact copy of an original one. My question is that the bayonet is not straight. It has a slight curve toward the end. When I called them the said all of them are like that. I tried searching on the web and other forums and could not find anything on the slight curve. If anyone could help I would appreciate it.
Thanks

Jim Mayo
12-29-2006, 05:33 PM
Repro bayonets are as crooked as a arthritic snake. I am not surprised at any flaw that shows up in a reproduction bayonet. Most all of them you can sight down the blade and see dips and rises in the edges. That is one way you can spot a repro being passed off as an original.

Phil
12-29-2006, 06:27 PM
Most of the original Enfield bayonets I've seen have a slight outward curve to them. This was apparently to ease the loading procedure when the bayonet was fixed.

Jim Mayo
12-29-2006, 10:34 PM
I just checked two original Enfield bayonets I have. One does have a slight outward curve starting about half way down the blade. On a flat surface it is almost 1/16 off of flat at the tip. The other one is perfectly straight.

I also checked one Lorenz, two 42 springfileds, a M-1855 and a M-1822. The 55 and 22 both had a curve. I don't think they were designed that way but could have got that way during the manufacturing processes. The others were straight

The following was taken from an old article in the American Rifleman which details the tests a M-42 bayonet went through at the Spiringfield amoury.

"A weight was hung to its point to try its temper. It was sprung by the inspector with its point stuck into the floor to prove its elasticity. If it was tempered too high, it broke. If tempered too low, it bent. Either way it was condemmed."

I suspect that there was a allowable bend measurment. Perhaps the bayonets with a curve were those that bent a little but were in tolerance and therefore passed by the inspector.

One other interesting qualitity control measure was incorpored. Welders were charged 1 dollar for each barrel lost through faulty work. Welders only made .12 cents a barrel so one bad one cost them plenty.

Richard Schimenti
12-29-2006, 11:09 PM
I too have an original 1853Enfield Bayonette. There is a very obvious curve in the blade. As stated in other posts, it seems that this curve would facilitate ese in loading and also deliver a straight thrust when the rifle/musket would be angling down from its own weight.

John1862
12-29-2006, 11:18 PM
I compared my old Indian Reproduction Enfield Bayo. with a near perfect dug one, the results were pretty funny. The only accurate features on the reproduction were that it had 3 sides and went over the muzzle of the gun.

Western Blue Belly
12-30-2006, 11:13 AM
Like so many others, my original '53 bayonet has the bend at the tip as well.

snk22nd
12-30-2006, 01:37 PM
Thank you all for the input. It sounds like the curve is suppose to be there. I feel better about this bayonet. It does make sense to have it curve away from you when loading to not impale yourself.

FloridaBummer
12-31-2006, 11:43 PM
Just curious; where did you get your repro bayonet from?
Regards;

54thovi
01-01-2007, 03:07 PM
OK, I have my cheap repro and my original here... Here are the differences

Repro:
1. more shiney and new looking...
2. locking ring is not even like the original
3. has a slight outward curve.
4. blade machining is very "clunky" as well as wavey
5. Is about 1/2 inch longer than the original
6. Is noticably heavier than the original.

Original:
Also has a slight outward curve.

In terms of use for reenactments, for display, stacking I guess the repro is adequate but for using it... i.e digging holes, using as tentpole by sticking it in the ground with a rifle, I imagine the original is made of better steel, and certainly has more "flex" than the repro (this coming from some field testing in the backyard and at events...)

If a person can afford it I reccomend getting an original, You don't have to get a museum grade one, there are plenty of good servicable bayonets available for about $120. Seeing that a decent Italian repro is about $100 it makes sense (at least to me) to get one. A India repro is about $25-30 but don't go using it like the soldiers would have as you will probably have to go and drop another $25 on a new one...

With an original though and even repros... try before you buy as they all fit different and unless you like to file some, it may not fit. I am lucky enough to live near Horse Soldier in G'burg and they let you bring your piece in with you. I was lucky to find the one that I liked and it fit my rifle like it was made for it...

John Feagin

Bluebuck
01-07-2007, 06:27 PM
Don't mean to highjack your post ,but my bro-in-law has a bayonet that we know isn't a Springfield. I'm pretty sure it's a Enfield,but being no expert I could be wrong. The only marking on it is on the end of the socket It is "L" over "410". Any ideas? Thanks

jurgitemvaletem
01-07-2007, 07:53 PM
Don't mean to highjack your post ,but my bro-in-law has a bayonet that we know isn't a Springfield. I'm pretty sure it's a Enfield,but being no expert I could be wrong. The only marking on it is on the end of the socket It is "L" over "410". Any ideas? Thanks

Providing a picture would be your best bet for any positive identification.

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem

tompritchett
01-08-2007, 05:41 AM
In terms of use for reenactments, for display, stacking I guess the repro is adequate but for using it... i.e digging holes, using as tentpole by sticking it in the ground with a rifle, I imagine the original is made of better steel, and certainly has more "flex" than the repro (this coming from some field testing in the backyard and at events...)

I am just curious - has anyone tried tempering their repro bayonette to give it the strength to do such tasks? If so, how many heat/quench cycles would you recommend?

terry sorchy
01-08-2007, 06:46 AM
The Italians are making high quality Springfield bayonets for the 61 and 42. At this time to my knowledge they are not making an Enfield bayonet. In fact other than an original the only thing you can get is from India. If the Italians are repoping them please tell me.
Terry Sorchy

CivilWarBuff1863
01-08-2007, 07:39 AM
My bayonet is Italian made. No curves what so ever, straighter than a [deleted] on a cold day. :rolleyes: I've taken the luxury of bluing the shank end that goes on the rifle. I kinda got sick of it rusting in bad weather and needed to do something about it.

terry sorchy
01-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Where did you get from? Let me know.
Terry Sorchy

Bluebuck
01-08-2007, 02:51 PM
I'd like to have a photo too! Right now his puters down and he lives two states away.

CivilWarBuff1863
01-08-2007, 07:40 PM
Well I got mine from Regimental Quartermaster when I was buying all my other stuff there at one time or another. I got it through the mail and wasn't expecting much. But it came to me just like it is right now (except the bluing). As soon as I get my scanner hooked up I'll scan my bayonet and show you guys. I make sure that thing is shiney too!

terry sorchy
01-08-2007, 07:51 PM
I talked to RQ today and asked him about the manufacturers. He said Armisport is repoping the 42 and 61 bayonets from spring steel. The enfield ones have not been made yet. They sell the indian ones. He said they are good but should be used for stacking or display. The ones from India are made from carbon steel. So dont go trying to dig rifle pits with it;)
Cheers
Terry Sorchy

jurgitemvaletem
01-09-2007, 09:56 AM
I just purchased a '42 sprinfield bayonet from the Regimental quartermaster. It arrived several days ago and spent about a day under a heap of several other things. It bent like butter. It was one of the cheap indian ones. Buyer beware, if you buy a bayonet for a sprngfield, buy a high quality italian one, or an original.

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem

Claude Sinclair
01-09-2007, 11:51 AM
Don't mean to highjack your post ,but my bro-in-law has a bayonet that we know isn't a Springfield. I'm pretty sure it's a Enfield,but being no expert I could be wrong. The only marking on it is on the end of the socket It is "L" over "410". Any ideas? Thanks

The Shank on the Enfield Bayonet is curved almost like a U where as a Springfield's shank is almost straight. Hopes this helps somewhat. I have several original Enfield Bayonets and an original Springfield. The curve in the Enfield is common.

Claude Sinclair
Palmetto Battalion

Bluebuck
01-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Something I just found out is that oringinal enfield bayonets don't fit the Repro-Indian made rifles because of the over sized front sight. I'll have to file the channel larger to make it fit. Wouldn't want to do that with a original,so I guess I'll have to buy a copy. Sure would like to find out what the markings mean :confused:

terry sorchy
01-09-2007, 01:07 PM
Do you have a Indian or an Italian enfield? That is a problem with the 61 pattern bayonets from Italy. You have to open them up a bit by the site to make them fit. I have an Armisport and it fits an original or repop bayonet just fine.
Terry Sorchy

FloridaBummer
01-09-2007, 02:45 PM
Apparently Blockade Runner Sutlery is selling a P53 bayonet thats salt blued at the socket. Anybody have an idea who is making these bayonets and what kind of steel they are made from? I've asked that question and recieved no real answer from them. I had ordered one and sent it back as it was too small for my Euroarms. I should be getting a new one from them shortly.
Any ideas though?
Regards;

terry sorchy
01-09-2007, 03:02 PM
Repop, enfield bayonets are typically made in India, some are made in China. Stay away from them. I assume BR uses Indian bayonets then has them defarbed.
Terry Sorchy

jurgitemvaletem
01-09-2007, 03:47 PM
Something I just found out is that oringinal enfield bayonets don't fit the Repro-Indian made rifles because of the over sized front sight. I'll have to file the channel larger to make it fit. Wouldn't want to do that with a original,so I guess I'll have to buy a copy. Sure would like to find out what the markings mean :confused:

This problem probably isa good example of something being an exception rather than a rule. Like the repos,not every original bayonet fits every musket. This
is the reason for the general reccomendaation that ou bring your gun with you when purhasing a bayonet.

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem

Bluebuck
01-10-2007, 09:10 AM
I bought a MVTC "India Made" smoothbore 1853 pattern Enfield. The front sight is 19/32 or 7mm wide. That's over 1/4 inch ! Even if I found a bayonet that would fit the barrel I'd still have to file the channel. I have no idea how wide the channel's are. I tryed to get a bayonet from MVTC,but they don't make them. Two bad too, they'd have a corner on that market. Anyway My bro-in -law said he'd give it to me, so I figure I'll just carry it for looks till something better comes along.