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Kimmel
12-14-2006, 05:18 PM
I'm speechless.... Just look at this new game called History Channel's A Nation Divided for the Xbox 360. Viewer discretion is advised... http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/867/867140/vids_1.html

John Legg
12-14-2006, 06:02 PM
its fun. for PS2.

31stWisconsin
12-15-2006, 12:28 AM
My favorite part is that the cartridge boxes are on the left side!

Wolfgang
12-15-2006, 12:51 PM
If they are going to attempt to try and make a civil war game atleast make it accurate. It isn't that difficult from doing it correctly then doing it incorrectly, both take time and one would offer a much better product. Running around with spencers and sniping soldiers doesn't seen like a common occurence during the American Civil War.

Kimmel
12-15-2006, 11:25 PM
What I find amusing is you can endure many rounds to the head and chest, yet you still seem to be able to load your pistol at about mach 3. The "sniping," for me, is the worst part. First off it wasn't called sniping in the Civil War, it was "sharpshooting." In battle, the term "sniper" wasn't used until WWI by the Germans. And second, they didn't have brass tubes for the scopes. They were a pewter tube with silver tips. I don't think they had breech loading heavy target rifles either. I tend to nit pick when it comes to the Berdan territory. I think the one good thing about this game is that some younger child may pick it up and play it, and even though it is VERY inaccurate, it may spark an interest in the child for the Civil War. - Kimmel

Sgt_Pepper
12-16-2006, 12:05 AM
I suggest a more careful search for sources on the Web.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/1860TargetRifle.asp

"The first documented telescopic rifle sight was invented between 1835 and 1840. In a book titled The Improved American Rifle, written in 1844, John R. Chapman documents the first telescopic sights made by Morgan James of Utica, NY. Chapman, the author, being a civil engineer, gave James the concepts and some of the design, whereupon they produced the Chapman-James sight. A bit later, in 1855, William Malcolm, of Syracuse, NY began producing his own sight. He did not steal the Chapman-James design. He did it the old-fashioned way: he worked for a telescope maker to learn how to make them, incorporated achromatic lenses (Footnote iv), and made the windage and elevation adjustments more perfect. They were between 3X and 20X or greater. These and ones made by Mr. L.M. Amidon of Vermont were the standard during the Civil War."

The above link and quote show that telescopic sights were available during the Civil War. Other links found while searching show that some heavy target rifles were breech-loaders. One link mentions a diary written by a sharpshooter where he says he had a breech-loading heavy target rifle equipped with a brass telescope.

A breech-loading heavy target rifle is easier to load without disturbing the position of the piece. Breech-loaders are inherently more accurate than muzzle-loaders because the bullet is less likely to be disrupted during the loading process. In fact, the most accurate target rifles until after the Second World War were black powder breech-loaders firing paper-patched lead bullets.

Trooper Graham
12-16-2006, 12:50 AM
Many many years ago I watch a TV program and the title was " The Mile Long Shot" or something similiar. It was a story about shooting Lincoln or some other important CW figure with a telescopic rifle during the CW. Anyone else see it? Had to have been 45-50 years ago. I remember it was in B&W.

Robert A Mosher
12-16-2006, 09:48 AM
What I find amusing is you can endure many rounds to the head and chest, yet you still seem to be able to load your pistol at about mach 3. The "sniping," for me, is the worst part. First off it wasn't called sniping in the Civil War, it was "sharpshooting." In battle, the term "sniper" wasn't used until WWI by the Germans. And second, they didn't have brass tubes for the scopes. They were a pewter tube with silver tips. I don't think they had breech loading heavy target rifles either. I tend to nit pick when it comes to the Berdan territory. I think the one good thing about this game is that some younger child may pick it up and play it, and even though it is VERY inaccurate, it may spark an interest in the child for the Civil War. - Kimmel

From "The Encyclopedia of Civil War Usage" by Webb Garrison:

Sniper. Expert marksmen who were accurate riflemen over great distances. Possibly because snipers were considered to be less than gentlemanly or even dishonorable, records were not kept of the accomplishments of these soldiers.

From "A Dictionary of Soldier Talk" by COl John Elting, Sergt Major Dan Cragg, and Sgt 1st Class Ernest Deal.

sniper. 1. (Antiquity uncertain, but late 18th century in British Army, to Modern). A soldier, usually an expert shot operating from concealment, who picks off individual enemy soldiers.


And the The Oxford Universal Dictionary dates it's usage to 1824. Previous discussions of the word on this and other forums reflecting a wide reange of research have tended to support the idea that the polite, preferred word was sharpshooter. The usage of sniper was considered pejorative and was used much more rarely and probably in reference to the other side's sharpshooters - perhaps in connection with a particularly effective practioner?

Robert A. Mosher

Justin Runyon
12-16-2006, 12:04 PM
Thank you Mr. Mosher, I was about to type up a very similar post, but you covered it all.

Kimmel
12-16-2006, 12:15 PM
I suggest a more careful search for sources on the Web.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/1860TargetRifle.asp

"The first documented telescopic rifle sight was invented between 1835 and 1840. In a book titled The Improved American Rifle, written in 1844, John R. Chapman documents the first telescopic sights made by Morgan James of Utica, NY. Chapman, the author, being a civil engineer, gave James the concepts and some of the design, whereupon they produced the Chapman-James sight. A bit later, in 1855, William Malcolm, of Syracuse, NY began producing his own sight. He did not steal the Chapman-James design. He did it the old-fashioned way: he worked for a telescope maker to learn how to make them, incorporated achromatic lenses (Footnote iv), and made the windage and elevation adjustments more perfect. They were between 3X and 20X or greater. These and ones made by Mr. L.M. Amidon of Vermont were the standard during the Civil War."

The above link and quote show that telescopic sights were available during the Civil War. Other links found while searching show that some heavy target rifles were breech-loaders. One link mentions a diary written by a sharpshooter where he says he had a breech-loading heavy target rifle equipped with a brass telescope.

A breech-loading heavy target rifle is easier to load without disturbing the position of the piece. Breech-loaders are inherently more accurate than muzzle-loaders because the bullet is less likely to be disrupted during the loading process. In fact, the most accurate target rifles until after the Second World War were black powder breech-loaders firing paper-patched lead bullets.


Thank you Sgt. Pepper... I wasn't sure if they had breech loading heavy target rifles, I have never seen one. The brass tube telescopic sight metioned, may have been a replacement for a broken sight or something along those lines. I believe they did start to make brass tubes late in the war, possibly late 64 into 65, but the brass tubes were issued mainly after the Civil War. And about the term Sinper. The British did invent the term in the late 17 early 18 hundreds. The Bristish coined the term when men would hunt the bird called the snipe. Sense it was such a fast moving bird, the men would call themselves snipers. As Robert's post says, the usage of sniper was considered pejorative and was used much more rarely and probably in reference to the other side's sharpshooters. Because it was ungentleman like to "pick off" other soldiers who could not see you, the men used the term sharpshooter. It is a possiblility that a hand full of men would call themselves snipers, but it was not a broadly used term.

sbl
12-16-2006, 04:33 PM
Funny, we once debated if the use of "sharpshooter" in Master and Commander was correct.

RJSamp
12-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Funny, we once debated if the use of "sharpshooter" in Master and Commander was correct.

thought that was a common term....[Marine] sharpshooters firing from the rigging.....now I'll have to pull out the naval warfare/Trafalgar books....

reb4lee
08-22-2007, 04:37 PM
its fun. for PS2.
only wish it was on xbox.

M.Metz
08-22-2007, 07:42 PM
I wish they would develope a game, other than the stratagies, that require you to drill in battlelines along with the player next to you. If you get hit your out of the game type of deal. I think it would paint a better picture of what the men faced during battle. I know though this would be hard to do, but yet fun to play.

Rob Weaver
08-23-2007, 06:04 AM
While the technology and the software certainly exist to do just that, I doubt there are many people interested in learning to do virtual drill together to then go out an participate in an online shooter together. Skirmish style gaming allows people to come and go, and to pursue the campaign goals if they choose. It think you'd find a linear tactics game would deteriorate into chaos in under 10 minutes.