String for canteen stopper

[D.W. Scalf]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I did a search and couldn't find anything among the hundreds of canteen threads. I'm looking to replace the string on a few of my canteen (stoppers). Anybody know a good source for suitable string? Dan Wambaugh told me that WW&Co uses plain cotton string. I just can't find any down here in Australia that I consider suitable. I just don't have the time to beat the bushes for it. Anyone have a line on someone that sells good, thicker cotton string that would be as period correct as possible?

Thanks!
D.W. (Trace) Scalf

[doughboy]

http://www.woodedhamlet.com/cords_ropes_twines/hemp_twistcord.html

[welshman15]

Mine broke and I used waxed thread that I had left over from from repairing a split seam on my brogans. It answered very well. I got the thread from a craft store (in the leatherworking section) so you may try that if there's one close to your location.

[Boyd Miles]

Go to a toy store and get yo-yo string.

[Jim Mayo]

Go here and see some original string.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

From what I have seen on originals all string was not the same size but the length was important. You can make a good string using string from a hardware store. See the page to determine the weight of the string. Cut to length, soak in some tea to give it a natural color. Then draw it over bees wax untill it has some body.

[D.W. Scalf]

I've been to Woodedhamlet before, but they were out of what I wanted. I'll give them a call. Jimmy, I should have talked to you first. I do go to your website...often. It's what I compare to. If I can find some a bit thicker than what I have, I'll do the beeswax thing. I think I read a thread a while back on the AC where you talked about it, but I couldn't find it yesterday. I have plenty of beeswax. Boyd, I did see yo-yo string on ebay, and wondered about it. Scott, I'm thinking waxed thread would be a bit thin for my "liking", though it might work fine, and could/would have at the time. Thanks for the input!

D.W.(Trace)Scalf

[Marc Shaffer]

I "unwound" a length of string and through experimentation, took out some of the single threads and "rewound" it to a thinner string that is close to the ones pictured in McDonnell's new book on canteens. It was a pain to do, but turned out ok in the end.

[Spinster]

Now, I'm going on looks alone, and don't know if a textile analysis has been done.

Why are y'all talking cotton string for this task?

Looks like waxed hemp cordage to me. Much more common fiber then.

And readily available now in big box craft stores.


But I've been wrong before.......

[Craig L Barry]

Now, I'm going on looks alone, and don't know if a textile analysis has been done.

Why are y'all talking cotton string for this task?

Looks like waxed hemp cordage to me. Much more common fiber then.

And readily available now in big box craft stores.


But I've been wrong before.......

The Spinster is correct. Wound linen or hemp twine. Fred Gaede suggested an outfit called "Ropesmith."
They made a copy of an original cork wire in his collection for him and sell them for $1. And I think the email was
something easy like ropesmith@aol.com.

[Jim Mayo]

For what it's worth on page 113 of Mike Odonnell canteen book he refers to one example canteen as having doubled cotton twine. I wouldn't be surprised if other materials were also used.

[jda3rd]

As Mrs. Lawson suggests, hemp twine makes a dandy string for a canteen stopper. Mine used to be a lanyard for our Parrott. It was treated with linseed oil once upon a time. It's held up well for me for about 10 years now.
Frank Brower
Jeff Davis Artillery

[S.D.Swart]

twine can be found in any Michael's craft shop. They have hemp rope too.

Shawn D. Swart

[D.W. Scalf]

Unfortunatley Michael's hasn't made it to Australia yet, along with most US retailers.

Jim, I think one of the canteens on your site has "doubled" cotton twine. I like it.

I think I'm gonna buy some cotton yo-yo string, tea dye it, and wax it to add body. I'm also gonna buy some hemp twine and wax it. See which ones come up best. Can get both pretty cheap on ebay. Also looking into "Ropesmith". Thanks for all the info, but I'm looking for something as close to the original as possible, not just whatever the local hardware or craft store offers.

D.W. Scalf

[Spinster]

There is a reason that hemp twine of comparable weight and appearance to period twine is pretty ubiquitous in BigBox stores Here The reason should hold true There.

Teenaged girls. They use it to make fashionable bead jewelry. And, it already has a wax finish, especially if you look at a specialty hobby bead store for it.

[D.W. Scalf]

Yep, Mrs. Lawson is right. Most of the hemp twine on ebay(and probably craft stores)seems to be aimed at the beaded jewelery business. From what I've read, if it's not waxed it will start to get ragged very quickly, especially from repeated wetting and drying. Since most of the jewelery is worn while swimming and showering, it needs to be waxed. I'm sure that would be the same reason it would have been waxed back then. Not for showering and swimming....for canteen spillage :)

D.W.(Trace) Scalf

[flattop32355]

Hemp and jute are period correct, to my knowledge, and hold up quite well.
If you desire a thicker cording than is available, just double, triple or quadruple braid it to the necessary length.

[jda3rd]

Y'all, it's string.

Tea-dying? Waxing? String, or twine, was the duct tape of it's day. If something needed binding, wrapping, bundling, chances are it was done with string. They weren't really worried about preserving it for the ages, they just wanted it to hold the paper on the package for a while. String is pretty much the definition of PEC: plain, everyday, common. Then, as now.

Why dye it with tea? If you're using it to secure a canteen stopper, it's going to get mighty dingy, mighty quick. Wax it? To preserve/protect it? It's holding a cork. If it breaks, tie it back together, or get another piece. It doesn't need to outlive the canteen. I mentioned that I used a piece of an artillery lanyard that was treated with linseed oil. It's been on my canteen a long, long time. But I believe that a simple bit of hemp twine or cotton string would have served just as well. It's just that we happened to break a lanyard at an event, and I needed to get rid of the chain on my canteen. If it hadn't been for the broken lanyard, I'd probably have used simple cotton string.

Frank Brower

[lincolnsguard]

Wow, has stopper string been over thought. Now, let's tackle, "cars in camp."

[Marc Shaffer]

Pull out O'Donnell's new book on canteens and you'll notice that hemp or jute twine really is not all that common for canteen stopper string, although it was used. Canteens issued at different times by differing contractors and depots have some common contract characteristics such as different cover materials, stoppers, slings, spuots, body sizes, etc. It's not about it being overdone, but more along the lines of how indepth you want to go on having accurate equipment. The close to accurate, off the shelf, hot dipped canteens come with a '64 NY depot stopper which would make them accurate for late war eastern theater. The materials are out there to make more accurate canteens if so desired.

[Silas]

Wow, has stopper string been over thought. Now, let's tackle, "cars in camp."

ding! Ding!! DING!!! We have a winner.

[vicka]

The Wooded Hamlet used to carry three ply Belgian linen cording that was used by Rev. War reenactors for many camp bits. It was very close to the material used on Civil War original canteens I have. The length of the cord was 22 inches, the cord was doubled over and tied with a simple knot at one end then looped around the cork stem and canteen body.
Steve Sullivan

[lincolnsguard]

How about, we stop beating the string dead horse and move on to "how to properly deploy skirmishers?"

[FloridaHoosier]

Lets get this thread back on track to discussing the intial query and please refrain from extraneous commentary. There is no such thing as a trivial detail when it comes to period kit. There are plenty of folks in living history circles who believe that if you take care of the little things, the big things take care of themselves. We now return to our regularly scheduled quibbling....

[Silas]

Ross, the off topic comments raise a good point. This thread about string has unwound to three pages in length. Three pages!

I concede the importance of having the little things correct ; however, too many people get stupidly myopic about the minutiae and never see the big picture. A correct piece of hemp on a canteen isn't going to make better a Paki uniformed reenactor in a wall tent filled company at a circus of an event where reenactors talk about battle, but cannot drill their way out of paper bags.

I would much rather see reenactors who perform their duties at quality events who bivouac around campfires like spokes on a wheel and who possess correct uniforms and gear without bragging all night long about their latest purchases from kewl vendor of the week. I see too many baby steps labeled as Great Leaps Forward, but I don't see enough real and actual strides occurring. I believe we must take care of the big things, and the small things will be taken care of by themselves.

Sorry to go off topic despite your admonition, but that's the basis for the objection to this thread about string.

[FloridaHoosier]

Mark, I view you as the wise director to the chorus that I'm but a member of us. I'm just a slightly-off-key tenor in this game. I am very much in agreement with all of your above statement ; canteen string is so low on the totem pole in this hobby, and there are of course much bigger problems in this hobby. There are new threads everyday to begin working on those. This post is about one item - canteen string. We may or may not be beating the dead horse, but its the mods job to keep the discourse on course, so it is in that vein that I attempt that once again. We'll give this another go before Mrs. L and I go scavenge through her bottomless basket of locking apparati.

[Spinster]

You know, there's a number of things I could say here, but I'll tell one guy's story.

Once upon a time there was a nice feller who wanted to date a young lady in my circle of friends. She spent an evening dancing with him, and said, 'mmmmm, nice man, but' and I said 'Son, you gotta do better in you impression if you want to go out with her'

So we went shopping and he bought himself a fine hat. It was a small thing in an otherwise poor kit, but it made a big difference in how he looked. In the process, he learned why his new hat was more period than his old one, and why I could make his old one look better, but could not make it right.

After a few weeks, he called me and said 'This fine hat, it Wants Things'. And it did--a better uniform (he sold his tent to me), some marching brogans, a good blanket.

Pretty soon he was going to campaign events. He already had a good weapon, already knew his drill, but a small change in kit opened up a wider world for him, and one where he looked a whole lot deeper.

That one little change started him working and reading and researching. Oh, he didn't get that girl, but oh well.

Small things make an impression, just as much as big things.


If fellers choose to sit around at events and talk about their latest uber cool hand spun weasel wool one of a kind fancy under drawers, well, I hate it for em, their leadership must be bad and they don't have enough to do. I always figured hair splitting was what forums were for. Events are for playing soldier.

[Blair]

There too is the choice one has of reading threads (strings) one find interesting, for whatever 'their' reasons. Or simply ignoring those threads one find mundane or even trivial.

[lincolnsguard]

Or, you could just buy a New York Depot canteen.....lol. :)

point well taken.

[Pvt Schnapps]

This source offers a variety of hemp twine, cord, and rope. A few years ago I purchased about four or five different types and have found them useful for a number of applications, including stopper cord, securing a pencil to a buttonhole, and rigging shebangs: http://www.hemptraders.com/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=541f59975ba971630722cba0f034c5e0

Hope this helps. After all, red tape only goes so far.

[D.W. Scalf]

Ok, I started this thread. I think it HAS run it's course. My questions have been answered. Yes, it was "strung along" a bit(pun intended). Thanks for all the useful comments, and also for the attempts at comedy. I started the thread over on "this" forum to hear some different ideas from a less judgemental crowd. While I dearly love the "other" site, I was hoping to avoid some of the know it all comments....didn't work. I'm not looking for good string for a Paki canteen. While I've been in Australia, I've only been able to do Living Histories with an small but very dedicated group of progressive living historians. I've used the time away from the States to research and improve my impression. We don't have huge hardware stores on every corner like you do in the States. I simply asked if anyone knew where I could get some good canteen stopper "type" string online. I've since found a craft store that has some good options(Thanks for the "Michaels" comment...got me thinking about craft stores).

This is not a "research" based forum per se. It's a discussion forum with quality research as a bonus. Or maybe I'm wrong. I agree with Ross. No CW topic is too small or trivial if someone wants to discuss it. I also agree with Blair. If you don't like a thread, or don't have anything constructive to add, just ignore it. A joke or 2 is ok with me. But I guess for some, you could find fault with most every thread "over here". I just can't believe that some actually said(sic), "Concentrate on the BIG things, forget about the small things, they'll take care of themselves". I can see that same person taking the opposite stance if it suited them. Talk about the "Devils Advocate".....goodness.

Mods, PLEASE close this thread.

D.W.(Trace)Scalf

[FloridaHoosier]

There was a time in the not-so-distant past when a topic as detailed this would not have a fitting home on this forum. I am thankful that there has been a shift in the priorities of this forum to become a place to actually discuss research and not bash events, other reenactors, or just plain be insulting. Part of this is due to the moderators coming from all walks of reenacting/living history, but mostly it is due to the changing attitudes among the general reenactor population who tired of what "used to be over on the clown forum" (as more than a couple of the more colorful "campaign" oriented folks used to say). We want this place to continue to raise the bar for research sharing and discussion. As has been said before, we're not the Authentic Campaigner Forum -we're designed for a different experience here, but we're seeing more and more people who frequent both and we the moderators are pleased that several folks who are well respected and high up the chain of the AC are frequent contributors here as well. Thats progress. Keep up the questions, queries, and detailed discussions....