.54 "real" Hawken Rifle FS

[Capnball]

Gents,
I have for sale a custom handmade repro of a Hawken Rifle. I would not be surprised if at least one Hawken or similar rifle was used at the Battle of Wilson's Creek. This would be perfect for an early war impression. Everone has seen the pic of the four yanks armed with sporting rifles such as this one.
NO, this is not a "Hawkin" or "Hawkins". This is NOT a Thompson/Center "Hawken" or a knockoff of said rifle. This is a REAL Hawken rifle, an excellent copy of the rifles made by Jacob and Samuel Hawken of St. Louis, Missouri, in the years before the war.
It is a percussion half-stock rifle, with iron crescent buttplate, iron thimbles, triggerguard, escutcheons, and nosecap, double set triggers, a patent-breech, and two barrel-wedges. The stock is of extra-fancy-grade figured maple, and the furniture, lock, and barrel are browned. Sights are correct dovetailed buckhorn rear and brass (or german silver?) front blade. The straight octagonal barrel is 1-1/8" across the flats, and the whole gun weighs in at about 14 pounds.
Overall condition is great, with minor handling marks and light wear to the browning, with an excellent bore. Lock and double set triggers function perfectly. Rifle can be cocked and fired with the triggers set or unset. Barrel is hand-stamped "CACHE VALLEY GUNS LTD 12". Please, serious inquiries only! I can email pics to anyone that's interested. Price is $650 shipped to your door. This is an absolutely awsome gun at a great price! Questions welcomed.

[Capnball]

Folks,
I think I finally figured out how to put pics on here since the site changed. Here are some pics of the Hawken. The gun also has an oil finish, and correct brass-tipped ramrod.

[rick35ovi]

Beautiful Rifle!! just not enough money in the kiddy for me yet, Free bump!!

[Blair]

Jordan,

Very nice looking Sporting Rifle, typical of the later production J/S Hawken Shop of St Louis, Mo.
I have seen photos of Buffalo hunters at a Trading Post (don't remember where off hand) in the early to mid 1870's. At least one individual has what looks to be one of these Rifles.
These are excellent hunting and target shooting grade rifles, used well into the self contained cartridge error of Sporting firearms. They were strong, durable and powerful firearms. Capable of taking any game on the North American Continent.
Just a suggestion on my part... but it would be nice if you could post a photo of the "Patented Hooked Breach" section that helped make these firearms so practical in their day.
I hope you find this info helpful,

[dclarry]

Jordan,

Is this a real 'shooter'? It's beautiful, in any regard.

Thanks,

-Lawrence

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Jordan can well answer for himself, but...

This, these, is a "custom built" and they are intended, meant, etc., to be shot for target or hunting.. This IS "what" an atypical late 1840's thorugh 1850's "Hawken" rifle NUG is supposed to look like, not what the Italian and Spanish TC clones call "Hawken" or Hawkin" rifles.

Were it left-handed and .52, I would buy it myself!

CHS
Who had had a "custom" circa 1825 LH Jacob and Samuel Hawken flintlock full-stock, a "custom" circa 1830 LH Jacob and Samuel Hawken caplock full-stock, and a "custom" circa 1850 LH Samuel Hawken caplock half-stock Mess

[Capnball]

This gun is definitely a shooter. I do not know what kind of accuracy it is capable of on paper, but it shoots good, and I have personally accounted for two deer and won one first place in a shoot with this gun. It is a fine piece of hardware, at a real bargain.

[dclarry]

Jordan,

OK, you and CHS both attest to this gun being a shooter. No questions there, no better provenance.

Can you supply any details on the the load used? What 54cal bullets you used, round ball or conical, what powder loads, etc?

Thanks. Just doing due diligence.

-Lawrence

[Capnball]

For the shooting match, I settled on 100-110 grains of goex FFg behind a patched round ball. For the two deer, I used patched round balls backed with 120 grains of goex FFg. I did kill a deer with this gun's sister and a conical buffalo bullet. I have tried lesser loads of powder, but got considerably more drop with the heavy .54 ball. I do not know how much difference there is in accuracy in this gun between round balls and conicals, as I have not done enough shooting on paper. I've been pretty lazy with it, shooting it just enough on paper to make sure it was shooting to the point of aim, then going afield. I do know this thing is plenty accurate. I always wanted to go out and try some 400-500 yard shots with it, but just never got around to it. The gun's weight keeps the recoil down, and makes it easy to shoot accurately. One other nice thing: you hit 'em with this, be they game or steel targets, they're goin' down. :)

[Capnball]

BTW, the shooting match consisted of two stages: A woods walk with steel silhouettes, then a "novelty shoot" with assorted "novelty" targets, ranging from shish-kebob sticks and strings, to a shot where you had to hit an ax blade, split the bullet, and break two clay pigeons sitting one on each side. It was kinda funny when I shot my shish kebob, as a big dragonfly landed on top of it as I drew down on it. :)

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Just an aside...

NUG (Normally, Usually, Generally) barrels rifled for patched round ball use have a different "twist ratio" than do those that are designed to fire conicals such as "Minie balls." Plus the side discussion of concials that are not Minie's.

As well as the side discussion about rifling groove depth for the rate of twist, projectile, and powder charge.

I have heard the arguments about patched round ball doing better in the fast twists, say 1:48 and the Minies doing best in say 1:72. And solid conicals in say 1:60.

But then, for every so many of those, there is the lad who says he does "X" with what he has and does "well" with his particular gun and load. Or a lad says my commercial "Y" rilfe is 1:48 and another lad with a commercial "Y" rifle says his is 1:66. So, are they right, or they do not how to measure a twist rate or misremembered the written materials that came with teh gun?

CHS


"

[Blair]

It has been my experience, within muzzle loading firearms, the most effective rate of twist in the rifling is base more on the overall finished barrel length.
This seems to make little difference between whether the firearm is a Civilian Sporting Rifle or a Military Rifle, Rifle-Musket or Rifled-Musket.
The rate of twist is roughly one half turn for a/any given length of barrel.

Jordan,

Knowing the barrel maker and the rate of twist, with this barrel length is important if you can find it on the firearm. It is and will be important to those whom may wish to buy this weapon for target shooting and/or hunting.
Reenacters, I am sad to say... often, could care less, as long as "baste" blows smoke.

[Capnball]

Other than the Cache Valley markings, there are no markings to indicate who made the barrel.

[Capnball]

Just a little bump. This is a great deal on a very high-quality weapon. If this does not sell soon, it's going on Track of the Wolf.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Make it left-handed, and I'll take it!

:)

"If this does not sell soon, it's going on Track of the Wolf."

And a buyer will have to pay TRACK's mark up of 33%!

CHS

[dclarry]

This is a good deal, I just can't make up my mind.

[Capnball]

BTW, found out this gun has a one-turn in 60" twist rate. I might could bring the gun to Wilson's Creek if anybody would like to see it there.

[Blair]

Jordan,

Where did you find this info?
Do you have a barrel length? You have not yet said what the barrel length is within your descriptions.

Barrel length, and the rate of rifling twist can make a difference in what type, shape and length of bullet "may" work/shoot best in this gun.
Just a thought on my part.
Hope this helps,

[Capnball]

Barrel is 32" long. A professional gunsmith and I checked the twist by inserting 30" of a non-swiveling rod with a very tight patch, and, as the rod made exactly one-half turn coming out, we deduced that the rate must be about 1-60".

[Capnball]

Guys, last call! :) Will bring to Wilson's Creek if anyone is interested. It's going on Track of the Wolf when I get back. Take care, and shoot you later:D

[Smoothbore62]

If you haven't sold it yet try posting at these sites http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php http://frontierfolk.net/mb/ hope this helps.

Bobby Bivins