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Tkessen
07-02-2011, 12:25 PM
I have been trying to make authentic cartridge packs lately. I have gotten the hang of making regualr cartridges and the packages, but now I want to begin to learn something new. Does anybody know how to make authentic blank "cleaning rounds?" I havn't found much on the search function as to what they look like. I wasn't really able to find anything at all on them. Could somebody provide a picture or diagram on how to make a "cleaning round?" I would also like to know how the origionals worked. Thank You!

Ross L. Lamoreaux
07-02-2011, 12:45 PM
Do a search on this site for Lazy Jack's Mess and Mr. Reardon's fine article on making blank cartridges. You'll find that the William's cleaner round was basically a Minie ball or conical ball with a flanged skirt at the bottom that was supposed to scrape the crud out of the rifling, but the Feds found by the later part of the war it didn't work too well and just about stopped using them altogether. They were placed in the same type of paper cartridge as regular ammunition, except they had a blue paper instead of the brownish. Just roll up a blank cartridge as descibed in the article, and wrap it in the suggested style of blue paper, and place one in a ten round pack (or more depending upon what timeframe your impression is, as regulations changed back and forth for different period). Get that article and you're in business, or better yet, find a copy of Reardon's book that was published by The Watchdog awhile back. Here is the link for a previous discussion which includes the link for the Lazy Jack's Mess: http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?18821-Cartridge-pack-construction&highlight=Lazy+Jacks+cartridges

maillemaker
07-02-2011, 01:14 PM
Here is an interesting page on Civil War era bullets. Cleaning bullet examples are about mid-way down:

http://www.blueandgrey.zoomshare.com/1.html

The base of the bullet appears to be zinc. So you would actually need to cast the cleaner separately from the bullet.

Another page about them:
http://www.thefullwiki.org/Williams_cleaner_bullet

Steve

Tkessen
07-02-2011, 01:19 PM
Thank You for these. They are just what I was looking for!

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
07-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Hallo!

Williams' patent bullets (Types I, II, and III ) aka Clean Out bullets are a bit complicated...

The bullet was lead, the disk zinc, and the disk pin was two parts antimony to one part lead.

The initial order was for three Williams' cartridges to be made up in each ten (10) round bundle. Blue paper was specified, but red is also known. Mid to late War Type III cartridges (the so-called "light" bullet) are sometimes found in the same "plain" paper as ordinary cartridges. (Some claim it was a trick to try to fool soldiers into using the unpopular round, others that the inspectors were lax and did not care.)

A recommendation was made in November 1862 to include two (2) in each bundle, but that appears not to have been done.
On August 5, 1864, they were suspended, and an ordered gotten rid of by increasing them to six (6) in each bundle. That lasted about six weeks, when on September 19, 1864 it was ordered to not buy any more Williams' bullets or make up cartridges using them. Finished Williams cartridges were to be used up at the old rate of three (3) per bundle until gone.

After the War, remaining inventories of unused bullets were ordered to be broken into their three pieces, smelted spearately, and cast into "pigs."

My wife's great-great uncle, Edward Blakeley, of Company "D," 63rd OVI, detached as a teamster, lost his arm at Resaca, GA in 1864. He came home with his Colt M1849 Pocket revolver, a holster, and his cap box. Inside of the cap box was a Williams Type III cartridge in plain paper. Family History referred to the fallen apart cartridge as an "explosive bullet."

Anyways, Williams cartridges can be somewhat "time specific."

Curt

Jim Mayo
07-02-2011, 03:45 PM
9611 A type 1 Cleaner round in original paper. All that is left is the bullet, the powder sack having being broken off. This is the cleaner bullet with only the zinc washer on the stud. Enlarge the picture and you can see it better. That was the 1st type. Actually the bullet was intended to be a more efficient bullet as the washer would take the rifleing and excess energy would not be expended by expanding the hollow base of a convential minie. It ended up not functioning very good as a cleaner or a better bullet. You can read about the in Deans "Roundball to Rimfire", vol 1.

Bill_Cross
07-02-2011, 04:45 PM
For the lazy like myself, Nick Sekela sells loading tubs with cleaner rounds (http://www.njsekela.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=372&osCsid=9fbea391a76c390cbd4db580bb0597da).

Some things I prefer to let others do for me. ;)

Ocaliman
07-26-2011, 01:08 AM
I guess I am a bit (confused, nieve, perplexed), but the one thing that always puzzled me about these "cleaner" rounds was that if I shove this round with the disc on the bottom of it into my fouled barrel, wouldn't the fouling end up in the breech of the gun, thereby causing a proportinate amount of powder/lead residue to seat itself in the breech? Seems to me, that it would act a bit like a "squeegie" and foul the vent opening, causing even more misfires... My apologies for hijacking the thread with this question, as this was not my intent..

Jim Mayo
07-26-2011, 07:16 AM
I guess I am a bit (confused, nieve, perplexed), but the one thing that always puzzled me about these "cleaner" rounds was that if I shove this round with the disc on the bottom of it into my fouled barrel, wouldn't the fouling end up in the breech of the gun, thereby causing a proportinate amount of powder/lead residue to seat itself in the breech? Seems to me, that it would act a bit like a "squeegie" and foul the vent opening, causing even more misfires... My apologies for hijacking the thread with this question, as this was not my intent..

The disc was cup shaped. Going down the barrel it was smaller in diameter than the barrel. The powder igniting flattened it against the bullet expanding the disc to engage the rifling of the barrel. The Williams round was originally supposed to be better than the expanding base of a minie at imparting a rotation to the bullet . It was never designed as a cleaner round. Dean's first volume "Roundball to Rimfire" has a good explenation of the Williams round.

Ocaliman
07-26-2011, 08:23 AM
The disc was cup shaped. Going down the barrel it was smaller in diameter than the barrel. The powder igniting flattened it against the bullet expanding the disc to engage the rifling of the barrel. The Williams round was originally supposed to be better than the expanding base of a minie at imparting a rotation to the bullet . It was never designed as a cleaner round. Dean's first volume "Roundball to Rimfire" has a good explenation of the Williams round.

Ahhh... I understand now.. I had a flat washer pictured in my mind scraping its way down the barrel... Thanks for the clarification..