Folding camp arm chairs

[Artyman]

Hi Folks!

We've all seen this photo:

http://712educators.about.com/library/graphics/lincoln2.jpg

Lincoln and the General are both sitting in those folding camp chairs with the arms and back rest. The chairs are very close to some you can buy today, with exception of the shape of the arms. I have two such modern chairs. There are lots of period pics of these, hundreds maybe. My Mathew Brady book shows more than a dozen. But the pics...however nice, fail me in two ways.

First, what color are they? Mine are very light, hard maple I think. The period pics show darker colors, many worn at the corners revealing lighter colored wood below. Question: What color do you guess they are? Dark stain? Paint? Arty OD paint?

Second, all have someone sitting in them. What color do you suppose the fabric is? Upholstery cloth? Natural canvas? Colored canvas?

If you haven't already guessed, I plan to modify my two for camp use. Changing the shape of the arms is easy, but guessing the fabric and color ain't!

Thanks everyone!

Harry

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

http://www.njsekela.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=269&osCsid=1df2b73059dd8c59d06ad693fb98d7a3 Generally I don't like to point out reproductions to talk about original items, but knowing the research that Nick Sekela does when offering an item, I will this time. This piece is a very common item of 19th century field furniture, as I have seen several advertisments for them in period newspapers. I've looked at several in original collections in the attempt to make one myself, and they all had two things in common: they were usually dark stained wood (which may be due to age and patina) and they utilized woven, printed tapestry. Aside from the sutler-row offerings today that utilize canvas and cotton, I've never seen an original with anything but heavy tapestry. As for the staining, these period chairs were bought ready-made from the great craftsmen of the era. Furnture of any quality was stained, not painted. Aside from some chests and boxes, I've never seen painted furniture in originals with military provenance. I will also point out, get you a copy of the book "Civil War Woodworking" available at Amazon and other vendors. It has a great chapter on period folding chairs, with pics of originals and plans on how to make your own.

[Artyman]

The Sekela chair is indeed a great repro, as is the one Fall Creek sells. However, the chair in the photo I posted is more like a common "X" type canvas seat camp stool, but also has hinged arms that fold up and are held in place by the chair back upholstery that slides down over the vertical posts of the fold up arm thingy. You can see the hinge in the photo of the chair Lincoln is sitting in. I've been searching the net since your post trying to find another pic to put up, especially that Brady pic of the line of officers sitting in front of that mail room tent. The guy second from the right is sitting on one, but I can't find it on line. I'll keep looking.

I suspect that you are right on the mark about the upholstery cloth and the dark stain. I've already started sanding the finish off my chairs to do a new dark stain job.

Harry

[Artyman]

I did find these:

http://p.lefux.com/61/20100713/A21990000C/folding-chair-outdoor-wood-1-small.jpg

http://p.lefux.com/61/20100713/A21990000C/folding-chair-outdoor-wood-2-small.jpg

http://p.lefux.com/61/20100713/A21990000C/folding-chair-outdoor-wood-3-small.jpg

Pretty much like mine, and the same design as the period chair shown in the Lincoln shot. These are like "directors chairs" but are not so high in the air. The arm and arm spindle shapes are the glaring differences between the modern version and the old images.

Harry

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

I tried to find a past discussion of this very type of chair, either on here or the Authentic Campaigner forum. I believe the consensus was that there are some major differences between the period version and the "director's chair" type you reference. You'll find the period models usually had steamed curved arms and legs, were thicker, more finished wood, usually with lathed carved lines and even folded slightly different. The hardware, screws, and pins were also quite different. I'll keep looking for the thread as well as some more period images of the correct type chair.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3543&highlight=directors+chair Scroll down to post #8 for some great images of chairs like yours. They do indeed bare some similarities, but it'll take a little defarbing to make a modern chair resemble those.

[Artyman]

Time Life Books Civil War Series, Volume "Tenting Tonight", page 61 & page 89. Page 61 shows the brocade cloth back, arms turned spindles, page 89 shows the Lincoln style chair. Wish my scanner worked!

Harry

[Artyman]

Wow Ross, that is informative, especially the series of photographs Dave Gink posted on entry #8. It's interesting that he mentions the Lincoln foto in that post. Looks to me that the metal folding brace on the modern chair has to go. The last photo shows the wood almost matching the modern chair, except for, as I already mentioned, the arms.

Thanks. I have some confidence now.

Harry

[Julio C. Zangroniz]

Harry,
Recently, I was part of a behind-the-scenes tour at the Maryland Historical Society, in Baltimore, and one of the "treasures" I got a chance to see, and photograph, was the very camp chair used by Robert E. Lee during the Battle of Gettysburg.
A spokesman of the institution assured me that the chair would go on public exhibit at some point during the 150th anniversary cycle, more than likely timed to coincide with the anniversary of the Gettysburg clash.
If you send me your e-mail address to Jzangroniz@comcast.net, I will be glad to send you copies of a couple of photos of that chair I took during my visit. Unfortunately, I don't know how to post photos here, but if you'd like to do so, you have my blessing.
Julio

[Artyman]

Thanks Julio! Address sent.

My progress so far with the conversion is that I took the chairs apart. I have had brocade upholstery fabric done up to replace the seats and backs. The rivets will be replaced by iron ones, the plastic spacers likewise replaced with metal ones. The wood is being sanded down for restaining (dark walnut) as we speak and the phillips screws in the hinges hinges will be replaced by round head slotted screws. I have elected to leave the arms "as is" since there so many variations of the arms in the available period photos. I am a bit conflicted at this time about the metal braces. I like the idea of them being there, but none of the fotos show these chairs ever having them. I will try them out with the braces removed and the holes plugged.

Saw a set of these being used at a sutler tent at an event this weekend. His were modified only in the respect that he took some sort of fur fabric for the upholstery. Looked like viking camp chairs! HA HA!

Yes, it is taking quite an effort to defarb these, and they'd never pass a non mainstream screening, nor would I wish them to, but they will be a better result than many other things we see in the camps!

I have already been asked why I have a fly over my tent. Guy didn't seem to know they are supposed to be there! I suppose he wonders where the corner poles are too!

I'll post pics when they are done.

Harry

[Artyman]

Here are three pics Julio sent me. These are posted with his permission.

http://mail.aol.com/33646-311/aim-2/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.27914221&folder=Inbox&partId=4

http://mail.aol.com/33646-311/aim-2/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.27914221&folder=Inbox&partId=5

http://mail.aol.com/33646-311/aim-2/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.27914221&folder=Inbox&partId=6

OK, Heres my take. First pic details arm and seat back. I wonder how the back upholstery is removed for folding the chair, seeing as how the arm passes through it. Perhaps it is not removed and the arms merely fold up flat rather than fold down. Humm?

The lathe work on the spindles is very nice and obviously suggests that these were not 1860 Wal Mart thingys. I'm not concerned that mine are not fancy since I have seen period pics also showing more modern looking plain arms and
wooden parts. The brocade fabric is obvious and stunning. The seat seems to be in two layers, perhaps for strength. How many times have we broken through the cheap canvas seats!?

Second pic. Again the lathe work is stunning. I'm sure turnings (as well as the chair) were mass produced in a factory since they had that technology then. The hinges are secured with flat head slotted screws. I will use the same, and drop the round head screws I already have. Notice that the seat upholstery does not pass through that slot affair in the seat frame as in the modern chair. It appears to be attached to the arm assembly instead, perhaps with the same style slot as used in the modern chair. This will be hard to change on the modern chair since the groove is so obvious and to plug it would still leave a visual flaw. I'll leave the modern groove thing like it is.

Also notice there is no obvious pivot rivets. No collapsing brace either. I can remove the brace, but the rivet in the modern chair will need to remain along with the spacer. Again, we have pics of other period chairs that have such a rivet.

Third pic. Makes me think that a good craftsman with a lathe could reproduce these. Humm...maybe it's time to get out the old "ShopSmith" and make some saw dust!

Harry

[moconfed]

The link to the pics don't work- it says 'I'm not logged in to Aim mail'.

[Spinster]

Harry,

In order for the images to be viewable here, you need to either upload them to a publically viewable image service and link them, or upload them to the albums section to your profile here and link them.

[Artyman]

How strange, they work just fine on my friends PC. OK, I'll try something else!
Harry

[Spinster]

That has to do with where the particular person has rights to view.

Image views are always a problem---folks who have joined this site but have not completed registration, or folks who are browsing without a log in account can't see pictures either.

[DaveGink]

See if these help at all:

http://www.shadowlandstudios.com/2nd_US_Cav/Equipment/Camp_Stools_and_Chairs.jpg

http://www.shadowlandstudios.com/images/CivilWarDirectorsChairs.jpg

[Artyman]

I have cut and pasted the original comments to the pics to make some good out of the screw up! :

OK, Heres my take. First pic details arm and seat back. I wonder how the back upholstery is removed for folding the chair, seeing as how the arm passes through it. Perhaps it is not removed and the arms merely fold up flat rather than fold down. Humm?

What sort of finish? Just dirty wood? Worn off paint? Finishes usually grow darker with age. These are still pretty light. I wonder if it was originally a light clear finish.

The lathe work on the spindles is very nice and obviously suggests that these were not 1860 Wal Mart thingys. I'm not concerned that mine are not fancy since I have seen period pics also showing more modern looking plain arms and
wooden parts. The brocade fabric is obvious and stunning. The seat seems to be in two layers, perhaps for strength. How many times have we broken through the cheap canvas seats!?


http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/60sRefugee/DSC_9904.jpg

Second pic. Again the lathe work is stunning. I'm sure turnings (as well as the chair) were mass produced in a factory since they had that technology then. The hinges are secured with flat head slotted screws. I will use the same, and drop the round head screws I already have. Notice that the seat upholstery does not pass through that slot affair in the seat frame as in the modern chair. It appears to be attached to the arm assembly instead, perhaps with the same style slot as used in the modern chair. This will be hard to change on the modern chair since the groove is so obvious and to plug it would still leave a visual flaw. I'll leave the modern groove thing like it is.

Notice that the legs have the raised highlights worn away from boot and shoe abrasion.

Also notice there is no obvious pivot rivets. No collapsing brace either. I can remove the brace, but the rivet in the modern chair will need to remain along with the spacer. Again, we have pics of other period chairs that have such a rivet.


http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/60sRefugee/DSC_9906.jpg

Third pic. Makes me think that a good craftsman with a lathe could reproduce these. Humm...maybe it's time to get out the old "ShopSmith" and make some saw dust!


http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/60sRefugee/DSC_9914.jpg

This chair is reputed to have been with Lee at Gettysburg.

Harry