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RebelBugler
04-19-2011, 07:44 AM
Curious as to opinions regarding presenting band music to the public at historical events where there is factual evidence that there were no bands present. Would such a presentation distort the observer's view of the historical event? Can this ever be justified as an acceptable accommodation or does this detract from the historical integrity of the presentation?

Jim Mayo
04-19-2011, 09:56 AM
What kind of events are you speaking of?

IMO Bagpipes are the worst offender to historical integrity. Seems like some people think they should be at every event, particually the pipers.

pvt t a white
04-23-2011, 01:06 AM
I guess those who truly do not understand the Piper are those who are most offended.

Shall the Prussian re-enactors not be allowed to attend the Lee Jackson ceremony in Baltimore? Or how about the WW2 re-enactors who march with the Yankee troops at Gettysburg?

People attend and participate in events because they are honoring those who went before them. Iím positive that there isnít one Scotsman or Irishman at a WBTS event that is not inspired by the pipes. Itís a heritage thing, try to understand.

Who among us are the most qualified to say who is and isnít allowed to attend historical events? The hobbyist with no blood ties to the WBTS or the descendants of those who offered their lives in maintenance of their Principles?

PVT T A White

Spinster
04-23-2011, 01:36 AM
Who among us are the most qualified to say who is and isnít allowed to attend historical events? The hobbyist with no blood ties to the WBTS or the descendants of those who offered their lives in maintenance of their Principles?

PVT T A White


In most cases, the rules for a particular event are set by the organizers of that event.

Folks who do not care for those rules are free to either work within the system, organize another event, or stay home.

I recently chose to do just that when an event strayed too far from my comfort level with the historical record. I had a pleasant day at home and planned for something more to my tastes.

R Beasly
04-23-2011, 07:27 AM
I guess those who truly do not understand the Piper are those who are most offended.

Shall the Prussian re-enactors not be allowed to attend the Lee Jackson ceremony in Baltimore? Or how about the WW2 re-enactors who march with the Yankee troops at Gettysburg?

People attend and participate in events because they are honoring those who went before them. Iím positive that there isnít one Scotsman or Irishman at a WBTS event that is not inspired by the pipes. Itís a heritage thing, try to understand.

Who among us are the most qualified to say who is and isnít allowed to attend historical events? The hobbyist with no blood ties to the WBTS or the descendants of those who offered their lives in maintenance of their Principles?

PVT T A White

Pvt. White, this has to be the stoopidist post I've seen in a long time. You make some great, grand sweeping assumptions. I'm not inspired!

Mr. Beasly

hanktrent
04-23-2011, 07:36 AM
Who among us are the most qualified to say who is and isn’t allowed to attend historical events? The hobbyist with no blood ties to the WBTS or the descendants of those who offered their lives in maintenance of their Principles?

Do we have anyone here descended from an ancestor who risked his life to kill a bag-piper? Because I want to sign them up for a few events. ;)

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

5 th Alabama Infantry
04-23-2011, 08:32 AM
All are free to believe what they wish about pipers, but I was there at Remembrance Day and witnessed some 260 pound thug from a federal band attempt to physically intimidate a Confederate piper.

I hope all would agree that such behavior is inappropriate.

R Beasly
04-23-2011, 08:39 AM
All are free to believe what they wish about pipers, but I was there at Remembrance Day and witnessed some 260 pound thug from a federal band attempt to physically intimidate a Confederate piper.

I hope all would agree that such behavior is inappropriate.

I hope we would agree that pipers are inappropriate!

Mr. Beasly

hanktrent
04-23-2011, 08:44 AM
All are free to believe what they wish about pipers, but I was there at Remembrance Day and witnessed some 260 pound thug from a federal band attempt to physically intimidate a Confederate piper.

I hope all would agree that such behavior is inappropriate.

More seriously, I agree with what Mrs. Lawson said. A piper shouldn't demand to be where none is allowed by the rules, and where the rules allow pipers, other participants shouldn't enforce imaginary rules against them.

I've never been to Remembrance Day, but from the pictures I've seen and what I've heard, it's a parade, isn't it, not an attempt at recreating a specific historic event?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

FloridaHoosier
04-23-2011, 09:00 AM
"A place for everything, and everything in its place". Music, as with all impressons, has an appropriate place somewhere according to the historical record. If an actual historical event is being replicated, do the research. If its a parade or generic festival-type event, its up to the organizers to say what's ok. And for the record, being of Scots-Irish heritage, I understand bagpipes. I understand that they are incorrect to almost every Civil War historical event short of the 79th New York marching through New York City in 1861. I understand that I love pipers and music - on a CD at home or in my car, and not at a living history or battle reenactment.

5 th Alabama Infantry
04-23-2011, 09:39 AM
More seriously, I agree with what Mrs. Lawson said. A piper shouldn't demand to be where none is allowed by the rules, and where the rules allow pipers, other participants shouldn't enforce imaginary rules against them.

I've never been to Remembrance Day, but from the pictures I've seen and what I've heard, it's a parade, isn't it, not an attempt at recreating a specific historic event?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

I agree with you exactly. Remembrance Day is a parade, not a reenactment. No matter what it is however, there is no place for physical threats.

RebelBugler
04-23-2011, 11:02 AM
I agree with you exactly. Remembrance Day is a parade, not a reenactment. No matter what it is however, there is no place for physical threats.

Rude behavior or intimidation is never acceptable, particularly physical threats. Regretfully, some participants at Remembrance Day lose the focus of what the event is supposed to be about....honoring those that fought and died there. It is not a reenactment...the individual pipers I have observed at the event are members of the SUV and SCV. Considering these individuals are commemorating their ancestors whose blood they share, they have an a dominant right as descendents to peacefully enjoy
participation in an event being sponsored by a descendent organization.

All too often, parades are confused with reenactments.......the recent debacle in Baltimore being a prime example. Confederates and US Colored troops were prohibited from participating ostensibly on the basis of "historical accuracy" yet the Committee saw fit to invite bands and fife and drum corps when there was clear and compelling evidence that no marching bands or fife and drum corps participated in the event being portrayed. One has to question how such arbitrary decisions can be made within the pretext of maintaining historical accuracy.

5 th Alabama Infantry
04-23-2011, 11:08 AM
I hope we would agree that pipers are inappropriate!

Mr. Beasly

As a part of an actual reenactment yes , I agree , at a parade no.

Now, will you condemn threats of physical violence at both.

79th New York
04-23-2011, 11:24 AM
How did this turn into a bagpipe frustration thread. The 79th community specifically has improved a great deal. 99% of bagpipes at events these days are being played by confederates.

Lets talk historical accuracy of Bagpipes while we are at it. The 79th New York had a bagpiper from June to October of 1863. There are accounts from the 79th, Texas regiments and other 9th Corp regiments like the 45th PA specifically that talk of bagpipes. The Texas accounts and the PA accounts talk of the "weird music of scotch pipes" marching the Highlanders to Blue Springs.


"We also have a new ' institution' attached to the regimentónothing less than a Scotch 'piper' from Michigan, who joined us on our way down here. He has a full suit of the kilts and often so entertains us with his alleged tunes on the pipes, that we have several times threatened to 'fire him out,' and not allow him to perform again till he learns how. A good deal of excitement was caused by the news of the rebel invasion of Pennsylvania; the absence of reliable information of recent date rendered the situation more uncertain; we did not know but that our own homes might be invaded. "

Page 302 - 303
The Seventy-ninth Highlanders, New York Volunteers in the War of Rebellion, 1861-1865 - William Todd


"On the morning of October 10th we marched out of this camp with the weird music of Scotch bagpipes as an accompaniment, the Seventy-ninth New York (Highlanders) being in the lead. We marched leisurely, vacating the road several times for squadrons of cavalry to pass to the rear, and once a battery of artillery passed to the front. It was nearing noon when the sound of artillery firing in front told us the engagement at Blue Springs was on."

Page 88-89 History of the Forty-fifth regiment Pennsylvania veteran volunteer infantry, 1861-1865 - Written by Committee

If anyone is interested in the other references, I will transcribe the letters.

Im not trying to defend anything. This is what it is. A single bagpiper payed his own way, had his own bagpipes and was not in uniform while fallowing the 79th around through Vicksburg, up through KY, and into East Tennessee. That being said, this is not justification for random pipers.