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8thILCavalry
10-27-2006, 03:44 PM
I was wondering does the NCO's have their insignia on the outside of their greatcoats? I am not at many events during the cold to really study this question and was at one recently and was wondering. (Since know that I bumped up in ranks). I've seen a few pictures but was wondering if that was the right thing to do.

Please answer without starting a typing war.Thanks

toptimlrd
10-27-2006, 04:07 PM
I don't recall if it was on here or the AC before each crashed, but there was a discussion about it at one point. If it was here, perhaps one of the mods can find it. If I recall the discussion correctly, it was supposed to be correct according to regs, but few NCOs did it.

tompritchett
10-27-2006, 04:12 PM
If it was here, perhaps one of the mods can find it. If I recall the discussion correctly, it was supposed to be correct according to regs, but few NCOs did it.

It was indeed here, as I also remember it. If I remember correctly, there were even some pictures posted. Unfortunately, I did not save a copy of that thread. Maybe someone else did.

Kevin O'Beirne
10-27-2006, 08:06 PM
There's very, very little evidence to indicate it was a common practice. It was, I believe, Nick Sekela who posted some images of an original overcoat with chevrons, but as I recall from that thread a number of folks (I including me) thought it quite interesting and educational, but didn't believe that it was evidence that it was a common practice in the Civil War.

Army30th
10-27-2006, 10:43 PM
According to US Army Reg #1577 of 1861 and Revised 1863, NCO chevrons were to be placed on the sleeves of both the uniform coat and the overcoat. But as stated previously, this was probably not common practice.

Trooper Graham
10-27-2006, 11:38 PM
According to US Army Reg #1577 of 1861 and Revised 1863, NCO chevrons were to be placed on the sleeves of both the uniform coat and the overcoat. But as stated previously, this was probably not common practice.

if something is considered not common practice does that set a precedence that it will not or can not be done?

Army30th
10-28-2006, 12:22 AM
Of course not. There are quite a few images that show no nco rank on overcoats. However, there are probably millions of people who never had an image made, that you will never know what they wore or where.

Therefore you can have it both ways!

jurgitemvaletem
10-29-2006, 04:39 AM
another question to add to this would be; did the chevrons for the overcoat come in different colors, such as the regular would light blue on dark blue, would the overcoat ones be dark ble on some other background? for better visibility?

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem

8thILCavalry
10-30-2006, 02:11 PM
thanks for the come back

Cav_Maj
10-31-2006, 12:58 PM
I remember the thread on the topic and someone pointed out that the Federal army collected up the coats when the weather got warmer and re-issued them when it got colder. No man was assured of getting "his" coat back, so it was kind of usless to put rank stripes on the coat. Being in the company, you knew who was what rank without stripes and if you were a new man anybody could point out the officers and the NCO's to you, or, they would find you when it came time to be placed on work or guard detail.
I hope this helps answer your question.

Brian

Lee Ragan
10-31-2006, 03:30 PM
another question to add to this would be; did the chevrons for the overcoat come in different colors, such as the regular would light blue on dark blue, would the overcoat ones be dark ble on some other background? for better visibility?

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem
If using factory made chevrons that came on a dark blue background cloth, the colored branch chevrons would still show up just fine. After 1872, when the Army went to a later type chevrons, the infantry used dark blue chevrons on the light blue overcoats to give a contrast.The Army later even adopted the practice of putting overcoat chevrons on the forearm to make them more visiable when the cape was worn drapped over the arms. Then again, it was much more common to see chevrons sewn to overcoats during the Indian Wars period than during the War Between the States.

MtVernon
10-31-2006, 06:32 PM
I offer no evidence for this, but this came up last night with a knowledgable friend, and he indicated that during the war there are examples of the chevrons being sewn on the forearm above where the cuff folds back and inverted so the peak faces the 'wrong' direction. I recall him saying that this was very rare and as such may or may not warrant expression in the hobby.

John1862
12-24-2006, 10:21 AM
...resurrect this old thread, this image speaks volumes. http://webpages.charter.net/regelsdorf/yank1.jpg

coastaltrash
12-24-2006, 10:46 AM
John what a nice image! Any idea a story behind this picture?

Pat Landrum

flattop32355
12-24-2006, 11:47 AM
if something is considered not common practice does that set a precedence that it will not or can not be done?

How's this for an answer: It depends.

Was it something that was supposed to be done, but seldom (apparently) was? The main question of this thread falls into this catagory. While it appears to have been an uncommon occurance, it was seen as acceptable to do so. Regulations call for it, so it has a reasonable basis for portrayal as more than an isolated case. A few such showing up at an event would not be incorrect, although every NCO so adorned would be out if the ordinary.

Was it something out of the ordinary, not sanctioned by regs or any other common authority? One of the most obvious examples of this is the fellow with the leopard skin pants. Yes, there is no doubt that such a person existed, and that he wore them in the CW. But to our knowledge, he's the only one, and he wasn't everywhere. To see one such at an event, portraying him at the appropriate location and time, is the only way it would be correct. Anything else would be incorrect.

Then, there's the "common in this instance, but not in that one". Wearing Corps badges in the Western Theatre before they were introduced there would be incorrect, even though they had become common in the East.

In the end, common sense and caution are the keys. In the end, one Grant at Gettysburg is just as silly as five Lee's, just for different reasons.

John1862
12-24-2006, 11:54 AM
John what a nice image! Any idea a story behind this picture?

Pat Landrum
Hey Pat, unfortunately no identification, location or timeframe. It was up for auction on eBay a few days ago, which I didn't win... :shock:

Rob Weaver
12-24-2006, 06:00 PM
I don't wear rank on my overcoat for the same reason many of us don't - I may have to fall in as a private in the ranks. When I'm acting as a SGT, I wear my NCO sword. It's uncomfortable because I'm a little short, but clearly marks the wearer as an NCO.

bob 125th nysvi
12-28-2006, 04:24 PM
whether or not it was done in a particular unit depended on the officer in that unit.

We've all known 'by-the-book' guys and 'if-it-works-don't-fwith-it' type guys.

Officers come in all shapes and colors too. So what's yours like?

You've got regs to back so if you want to do it, do it and point out how the other NCOs are sloppy.

And if you don't want to do it you can always point out the guy who does it as a 'dandy'.

Ain't the CW great.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY