MAINSTREAM vs. PROGRESSIVE

[jeteeple2]

Ok, i know this is going to sound dumb to some of you but here goes.

What exactly is the difference between progressive & mainstream reenacting? Are there more than just these two types? Which one emphasizes greater authenticity in uniforms,gear,behavior, etc...? Im not trying to start an argument between the groups, Im just curious and want to make an informed decision when picking the unit thats right for me as I would like to join the most authenticity minded group that I can. Thanks.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18747&highlight=mainstream+versus+progressive This is a link to a quite lengthy discussion on the subject

[indguard]

This could be trouble...

WTH
The DuckAndCover mess

[billwatson2]

I'm digging the trench deeper and adding timbers.

[billwatson2]

Although the man deserves an answer, our definitions are so entwined with ego and agenda and connotation as to make any answer confusing. All I'm going to toss out there is that the two categories are not mutually exclusive, and none of us have used the words according to dictionary definitions in a long, long time. Maybe we should just do that and stop using them as yardsticks to criticize each other.
Well, pigs will both sing and fly before that happens, but it's still my happy thought for today.

[TJ Bartel]

Well said Bill.

[indguard]

Bill, that is exactly why I stayed away from answering THIS time (anyway).
LOL

WTH
The RunAway mess

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

IMHo...

That linked discussion should be mandatory reading for all new members. :)

And at least as famous as the Curt-Heinrich Heresies of Mental Pictures and the Parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant.

CHS
Lieutenant Duck, Captain Dodge, and Major Hyde Lodge No. 1 Mess

[Poor Private]

Mainstream: 1.A prevailing current or direction of activity or influence
Progressive: of, relating to or charicterized by progress. 2. moving forward or onward:advancing
These are both the definitions in my "The Merriam-Webster Dictionary"
copywrite 2004
So take it as you see it, is my opinion.

[Blair]

All of this is very quaint in it's various descriptives!
It may also be very much about what some of the newbies are looking for?
You know, silly little things like answerers? to various terminology applied to the hobby by the "supposed" Old Timers?
Just a thought,

[Remise]

....I'm going to go get my pillow. I'll be right back!

B.C. Milligan
My First Sergeant can Beat Up Your First Sergeant Mess

[mike51tenn]

I'm going to get my whip, where did that dead horse go?

[bob 125th nysvi]

answer if anybody can actually come up with an unbiased, neutral definition issued by some third party.

As it is there is no answer to the question because no one can agree to any definition that doesn't put themselves in the category of their choice as they see themselves.

Convoluted, you bet.

Generally most reenactors belong to a unit that could be classified as mainstream. However it is sort of like playing football. Everybody plays football from Pee-Wee to the NFL just everybody doesn't play the SAME football.

And mainstreamers are like that.

You can find units that have lousy drill, horrible authenticity and no standards. They will show up at a large event and get on the field of battle just to flesh out the ranks.

They are mainstreamers.

Then you will find units that have standards of equipment based on the unit they try to represent, a logical organization where people are given rank commensurate with their knowledge, excellent drill and great field craft.

They are mainstreamers too.

You can classify anybody who is trying improve their impression and knowledge as "progressive" no matter what their (alleged) starting point is.

There are people in units that have a high standard of authentic gear, camping style and drill and they lead the way to better authenticity for all of us.

And there are people who have great stuff and book knowledge and are lousy field or drill soldiers.

And quite honestly for every buffoon in the "mainstreamer" ranks there is another insufferable arrogant boor in the "c/p/h" ranks.

We come in all sizes, shapes, colors and ability levels. Just like the real world.

The only way to know if a unit is right for you is to fall out with them at an event and OBSERVE. If you are having fun (most important), if their level (and cost) of authenticity is obtainable for you, if they know their drill (or at least PRACTICE drill) and if their willing to work with you to help you progress and find your way in this hobby, then you may have found your unit.

If not move on to another.

And you may find that today's "right" unit is not tomorrows right unit. Change ain't always good but it is inevitable.

It's not THE answer but really there ISN'T a "the answer".

[TB1861]

Here are two well written articles about the terms:

http://www.saltriverrifles.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5:everything-you-ever-wanted-to-ask-about-reenacting-part-one&catid=3:improving-the-impressions&Itemid=4
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?8269-Cal-Kinzer-on-Definitions

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Here are two well written articles about the terms:

http://www.saltriverrifles.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5:everything-you-ever-wanted-to-ask-about-reenacting-part-one&catid=3:improving-the-impressions&Itemid=4
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?8269-Cal-Kinzer-on-Definitions

Great links. I had completely forgotten about both of these, but they sum up things quite well. Cal's forgotten more about reenacting than most of us will ever learn, and Jim Butler of SCAR and the SRR is no slouch either

[Longbranch 1]

Just a personal interpretation:

(a),Mainstream;
5 or more " yahoos ", particularly in camp, daylight, visitor hours, etc

(b),Progessive;
Someone who "yahoos" after the public is gone, and generally gets called on it.

(c) Campaigner;
A nasty ,dirty, fella, who two weeks later, asks in cyberspace;
" Did you see those "yahoos" ? "

Only partly in jest,

Regards,
Kevin Ellis,
26thNC

[johnduffer]

I think Mr. Sandusky's definition of the terms about as good as I've ever seen.

John Duffer

[MD_Independent26]

You know? I used to love labels. I thought they were a useful tool. Not now.

All these labels are comparisons to other reenactors. And as said before, there is no answer.

Instead of choosing a unit based on a liquid labeling system, read a book like "Hardtack and Coffee". Then look at different unit websites. Read their AARs and look at their photos. Then go into the field with them. They'll probably have loaner gear. Don't get too friendly with them just yet. Compare your experiences to the historical record of the event you 'replicated'. Make your choice based on history. If, of course, you want the history.

Bill Birney
Columbia Rifles

[FloridaHoosier]

In the words of the sage Mr. Birney, we'll end this with the hope that we'll all recognize that some labels work, and some are just labels....