strange officer haversack question

[David Meister]

I was wodering did officers carry a cup on their haversacks like enlisted men?

I have not seen any photos with a cup attached but I have not seen many photos.

[Rob Weaver]

Exactly the same. A lot of the little collapsable cups that survive from the period belonged to officers. While you're studying an officer impression, take note whether the officer in the photo is staff or a company officer. staff could get away with more baggage than line.

[GaWildcat]

Now the question. Where can you get collapsable cups?? looked on line and could only find (ew) stainless steel ones... I use a smaller sized cup that fits nicely in an issue haversack at the moment... waiting for my officers haversack

[reddcorp]

Now the question. Where can you get collapsable cups?? looked on line and could only find (ew) stainless steel ones... I use a smaller sized cup that fits nicely in an issue haversack at the moment... waiting for my officers haversack

I found a really good one at a local antique/junk shop and I bought two more on E-bay. You just have to look around a bit.

A.Redd

[GaWildcat]

Thanks for the pointers... will be on those pretty quick!!

[DamYankee25]

I believe the Village Tinsmith makes them as well.

[PVT.THIB]

Send Mint Julep a PM on this board. He might be able to help you out with the collapsable cup. That is where I got mine.

[Mint Julep]

Send Mint Julep a PM on this board. He might be able to help you out with the collapsable cup. That is where I got mine.


Yes, I've got a couple at the moment.

However, the collapsible cup will not replace your standard cup with a handle. It isn't made for coffee! The idea of the collapsible cup is to provide the discerning gentleman a means to obtain a drink from a random water source (well, stream, friendly lady ...) without resorting to uncouth practices.

I recommend researching the item before buying on eBay. There are some very nice ones that are appropriate for our period on there from time to time and then there are some that don't even come close. You don't want to waste your time buying something that isn't correct. Also, you have the problem of poor descriptions because people don't know what they are selling, misleading information because people want to see the bids go higher and lousy photos. I have seen two of the same item sell for different prices simply because the seller put the words "Civil War" in the description line and the sad thing is that quite often the item is NOT from the Civil War period. Your personal research will save you a lot of grief.

As for officer's carrying cups on their haversacks, allow me to suggest an alternative thought: Officers sometimes carried an "officer's haversack" as a sort of traveling office and carried an additional haversack for food and utensils. I think as the war progresses and officers in the field have the experience of seperation from baggage for an extended period from time to time, they become a bit more savvy. If you look at the image of the "Three Lieutenants" who appear to be standing on the side of the road during a march, they are carrying standard issue style haversacks and canteens. Their appearance and apparent efficiency is equal to the enlisted men. All those report forms were either tucked neatly into a book in the haversack and the rest done away with or they have dumped them on a company clerk to haul around for them. OR, Heaven forbid, they don't have them and plan to complete forms after the fact using notes made in a book.

[GaWildcat]

I did a close in look at the Lt's three.. and they are without a doubt officers type haversacks... Not to dispute you sir, just took a closer look

Thanks for the information on the collapsable cup. I saw some nice ones, one with a handle even, but I didnt think they would be practical for coffee, so I will probably dispense with acquiring one.. just one more thing I will probably never use, so why bother with it.

Dave, sorry for hijacking your thread ... :sad:

[rooney]

I'd like to 2nd Joe's comments about cups.
Here's a copy of an original that was carried during the war.

http://museum.dva.state.wi.us/Giftshop_items.asp

Rooney

[Mint Julep]

I recommend researching the item before buying on eBay. There are some very nice ones that are appropriate for our period on there from time to time and then there are some that don't even come close. You don't want to waste your time buying something that isn't correct. Also, you have the problem of poor descriptions because people don't know what they are selling, misleading information because people want to see the bids go higher and lousy photos. I have seen two of the same item sell for different prices simply because the seller put the words "Civil War" in the description line and the sad thing is that quite often the item is NOT from the Civil War period. Your personal research will save you a lot of grief.



Here is an example of a collapsible cup on eBay that is VERY representative of the ones used during the Civil War: Pewter cup with Japanned tin box (http://cgi.ebay.com/1860-Pewter-Collapsible-Cup-w-Period-Black-Japanned-Tin-/380226780906?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5887483eea)

The seller is playing up the rarity of the item, but I've see them often enough to question how rare they are. You can find the pewter cup without the japanned tin box even more often. Sometimes sellers will refer to them as "lead".

Also, note the size of the cup. Most CW cups were about 3 inches tall. In later years, the cups got smaller.

There is also currently a cup listed made of horn. While it is interesting and the materials were available, I know of no documentation for such a cup as PEC or NUG.

[Mint Julep]

I did a close in look at the Lt's three.. and they are without a doubt officers type haversacks... Not to dispute you sir, just took a closer look

Thanks for the information on the collapsable cup. I saw some nice ones, one with a handle even, but I didnt think they would be practical for coffee, so I will probably dispense with acquiring one.. just one more thing I will probably never use, so why bother with it.

Dave, sorry for hijacking your thread ... :sad:

You are correct, Bobby. I was working from memory and I am starting to suffer from CRS.

I think the cups with handles are post-war, but haven't delved too far into that research.

[Longbranch 1]

C'mon guys,
Everyone knows that "strange " officers carried " strange things " in their haversacks. :p

Regards,
Kevin Ellis,
26thNC

[roundshot]

The "Private Smith's Cup" sold at the Wisconsin Veterans Museum link as noted above is a perfect size for fitting inside one's haversack, officer's or otherwise.

[1stSgt45PVI]

"Now the question. Where can you get collapsable cups??"
I picked up @ least 3 collapsable cups in Tin as stated before @ a "Antique" more like Junk shop as well. Yard sales are good as well and flea markets, cost me $2.00 for all 3! Good luck and happy hunting!

[Mint Julep]

I was wodering did officers carry a cup on their haversacks like enlisted men?

I have not seen any photos with a cup attached but I have not seen many photos.

Look at the officer on the right in this image:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/darthpreston/bedrolls.jpg

[Blair]

Mint,

Interesting photo.
I mean aside from the Officers cup and haversack.

Do you know, or have any additional info on this Unit, and when/where the photo was taken?

Here is why it interests me,
I count 16 Rifles in this image.
Of these I can identify 6 as being M-1841 Rifles. What can be seen of the other firearms, they appear to be of the same size and configuration. (difficult to be positive)
I also count 7 socket bayonets being among their accouterments.
This would mean the firearms are one of two "Drake" altered variations of the M-1841 Rifle.
Thanks,

[Mint Julep]

It was one posted on another forum that discusses details of period images. The image was found on an online auction site: Heritage Auctions (http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?&hdnSearch=true&src=&cboSaleNo=6015&col=&ord=&txtSearch=&cboDenomination=Military+%26+Patriotic%3ACivil+War&num=0&ln=50&stage=1)

We noticed the same thing about the weapons. Your input would be appreciated.

[Blair]

Mint,

Thanks for the invite.
I would be pleased to share any info I have on this subject.
Perhaps, it might be best to request a separate thread be set up for this topic, to keep from interfering with the subject matter of the original poster.
If this meets with your approval and the Moderating staff, I'm all for it.

[Mint Julep]

maybe you could just pull up a stump at the original discussion?

Hardcase Boys Forum (http://hardcaseboys.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=photodiscussions&action=display&thread=408)

[Blair]

I love a good stump!
What a great group of Photos!
So much can be cleaned from these from so many facets of this hobby!

Dan Wambaugh posted this image on the AC Forum under "A Miss. Rifle by Todd Watts" pg 14 post # 137

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?26325-A-Mississippi-Rifle-by-Todd-Watts/page14

I hope this comes through OK. (After I submit this, I'll go back an check)
It is a great photo... the entire thread is also very informative. (For those with an interest in firearms.)

[Blair]

This works.
Just scroll down to the last posting #137 and click on the image.