1st Bull Run Units w/Flintlocks

[Tiger_rifles]

OK, I have been working on this for some time and getting no where fast. I have been told by most that personnel accounts will be my best source. So the research is going slow.

Looking for Units that carried Flintlock muskets/rifles at 1st Bull Run/Manassas.

Have found two!
1) Co. K, 33rd Va. Mdl 1816/22's (Poss. Va. Mft. Muskets!!!)
2) Co. ?, 1st Arkansas Inf. Mostlikely Mdl 1816/22's

Does any body else have this information from relatives or Unit histories?
Many Thanks,

[ScottWashburn]

I got this off a wargaming site. I have no clue about the sources or the reliability of this info.

Confederate Units at 1st Bull Run:

2nd Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
4th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
5th Virginia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
27th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
33rd Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
7th Georgia – US M1842 Muskets.
8th Georgia – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
4th Alabama – US M1842 Muskets.
6th North Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Mississippi – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
11th Mississippi – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Maryland Battalion "Zouave Guards" – US M1841 Mississippi Rifle.
3rd Tennessee "Vaughn's Third" – US M1842 Muskets.
10th Virginia "Warren's" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
2nd Tennessee "Walker's Second" – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
1st Arkansas – US M1842 Muskets
11th North Carolina – US M1822 Muskets.
2nd South Carolina "Palmento Guards" – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
3rd South Carolina – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
7th South Carolina – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
8th South Carolina – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
5th Alabama – Tyler Texas Rifles.
6th Alabama – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
6th Louisiana – US M1842 Muskets.
17th Mississippi "Featherston's" – US M1822 Muskets.
18th Mississippi "Burt's" – US M1822 Muskets.
5th South Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
5th North Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
11th Virginia "Southern Guard" – US M1855 Harpers Ferry Rifles.
17th Virginia "Alexandria Rifles" – US M1842 Muskets.
8th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
18th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
19th Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
28th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
49th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
13th Mississippi "Barksdale's" – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
7th Louisiana – US M1842 Muskets.
7th Virginia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
24th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
4th South Carolina – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
1st Louisiana Special Battalion "Wheat's Tigers" – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
8th Louisiana – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
Hampton's South Carolina Legion – French Liege Muskets.

Union Units at 1st Bull Run:

2nd Maine – US M1822 Muskets.
1st Connecticut – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Connecticut – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
3rd Connecticut – US M1842 Muskets.
82nd New York "2nd New York Militia" – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
1st Ohio – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Ohio – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
13th New York "Rochester Regiment" – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
69th New York "Meagher's Zouaves" – US M1842 Muskets.
79th New York "Highlanders" – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Wisconsin – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
1st Massachusetts – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
12th New York – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Michigan – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd Michigan – US M1822 Muskets.
8th New York Militia "Washington Grays" – US M1842 Muskets.
27th New York "Union Regiment" – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
84th New York "14th Brooklyn" – 1853 British Enfield Rifles.
Sykes' Battalion of U.S. Infantry – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
Battalion of U.S. Marines – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd New Hampshire – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Rhode Island – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Rhode Island – US M1822 Muskets.
71st New York – French Liege Muskets.
5th Massechusetts Militia – US M1842 Muskets.
11th Massachusetts "Boston Volunteers" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
1st Minnesota – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
38th New York "2nd Scott's Life Guards" – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Michigan – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
4th Michigan – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd Maine – French Liege Muskets.
4th Maine – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
5th Maine – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Vermont – US M1842 Muskets.
1st New Jersey Militia – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd New Jersey Militia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
3rd New Jersey Militia – US M1842 Muskets.
4th New Jersey Militia – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
1st New Jersey Volunteers – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
2nd New Jersey Volunteers – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd New Jersey Volunteers – 1839 Bavarian Muskets.
41st New York "2nd Jager Regiment" – US M1842 Muskets.
8th New York – US M1842 Muskets.
29th New York "Astor Rifles" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
39th New York "Garibaldi Guard" – US M1842 Muskets.
27th Pennsylvania – French Liege Muskets.
16th New York – US M1842 Muskets.
18th New York – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
31st New York "Baxter's Light Guard" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
32nd New York – 1839 Bavarian Muskets.

[Tiger_rifles]

Thank you Sir, this is a good start. But I am having a little issue with so many import muskets this early in the fight. Also, I do not think "Tyler" was making weapons at this point in the war. I will have to see what I can discover Unit by Unit. Some I know, so are not clear. For example, I had relatives in the 17th Va. Inf. and most companies were armed with the Mdl. 1855. Now Wheat's Tiger, that is easy, they had the Mdl 1841. But that was just Co. B. the other Companies had smooth bores if I remember correctly.

But still, Thank you Sir for the information you found.

[79th New York]

I would use that list as a starting point. Thats a very general list. The 79th New York for example had a mix and match of arms. 1816 conversions, 42s, 1855s, ect. Anything that could shoot :rolleyes:

[plankmaker]

Paul,

This isn't perzactly what you were looking for, but it might help some. Most of the troops at Roanoke Island at the time of Burnsides amphibious assault were equipped with flintlocks. They were also very demoralized at the time based on the accounts I have read.

VMI (as you probably already know) began keeping a detailed inventory of the arms stored there after the John Brown Raid. There might be someting there too.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

The Daily Dispatch: November 19, 1860.

Richmond Dispatch
Local Matters.

Arms for the volunteers.

--We are glad to inform the volunteer infantry of the State that 5,000 smooth-bore percussion muskets, purchased by the Commissioners from the U. S. Government, have been received at the Armory in this city. Experienced officers of the regular service consider this a better weapon for volunteers than the rifled musket. Although its range is less, and its accuracy when firing at small objects is not so great as the rifled musket in the hands of a good rifle shot, yet, in firing at masses at ordinary ranges and with unpractised troops, it is more efficient, inasmuch as it can be loaded with more rapidity, does not foul or lead, carries both ball and buckshot, and is not so delicate and so liable to get out of order as the Minnie musket.
Be this as it may, however, it was the only reliable musket the Commissioners could get, and they had no option but to take it. The Government will not sell Minnie muskets, there being no law authorizing such sale, and no private arms company can get ready to manufacture rifled muskets which will stand the Government proofs, sooner than it can be done at the Armory here.
We are informed that requisition has been made on the War Department for 1,000 more of the smooth-bore percussion musket, and it is supposed that there are about 4,000 now in the hands of the volunteers. We shall soon have, therefore, 10,000 of them. 10,000 flintlock muskets, of the United States make, equal to quality to the others, and with flints in them, have been reserved by the Commissioners from the arms sold to Mr. Anderson, until 5,000 of the new rifle musket have been manufactured. These reserved muskets are such as the Army used in Mexico, and are considered, by high authority, as not at all inferior to the percussion musket.

A contract has been made for the requisite accoutrements, 500 sets of which have been delivered, and the delivery will progress at the rate of at least 300 sets a week until the wants of the volunteers are supplied. The State, therefore, is nearly ready to send 20,000 infantry to the field.

In addition to thirty or forty bronze fieldpieces already possessed by the State, the Commissioners have purchased thirteen iron-rifled field guns of the Parrott patent, with 100 rounds of the Reid shell for each, and have obtained by requisition six twelve pounders, navy howitzers, one of them rifled. These last are not only provided with navy carriages, which enable them to be put in boats and used in our creeks and rivers, but will soon have army carriages, and will constitute a formidable battery of mountain howitzers. They cannot be transported on horses, but will be light enough to traverse our mountain regions with ease.

Without counting the large number of smooth-bore iron pieces of various calibre in our Arsenals, we have at least sixty bronze and rifled field-pieces and howitzers, and can equip ten batteries of six, or fifteen of four pieces each. A contract has been made for 3,000 shells and shrapnel, besides those purchased with the Parrott guns.

Arrangements have been made to manufacture Broman fuzes here, and to purchase friction primers for the artillery, and balls and percussion caps. for the infantry. And, as we have heretofore stated, five hundred barrels of Dupont powder have been purchased and stored in magazines built for the purpose, here and at Lexington. Nor have the cavalry been neglected. Two thousand new sabres have been purchased, and one thousand old ones, of excellent temper, have been cut and scabbarded. One thousand revolvers, of the pattern used in the English army, known as the Dean & Adams pistol, have also been bought, and are now in the Armory undergoing a final inspection before being paid for. Two hundred light artillery sabres, of the United States pattern, have been bought, and these, as well as the cavalry sabres, were inspected under a special order procured from the War Department, by the United States inspecting officers, and passed all of the Government tests.

From the foregoing statement it will be seen that we can, at this present time, arm efficiently about twenty-five thousand men of all arms. This is about 4 ½ per cent of our entire population — a proportion not inferior to the standing armies of the great military Powers of Europe, and a force greater than the State could keep in the field.

We learn, also, that the model of the new Virginia musket has been determined on, after consultation with the Ordnance officers of the regular service, with our Master Armorer, Mr. Adams, and with Mr. Burton, the late Master Armorer of the great Enfield establishment, in England, and after experiments at Lexington with the U. S. Minnie musket and the Enfield musket.

The Virginia musket will be a combination of the U. S. rifled musket and the British Enfield musket, and it is hoped will possess the advantages of both. The model is new being constructed at Springfield, under Mr. Adams' supervision, and by special permission of the War Department, the State defraying the cost. When completed it will be used in getting up the machinery for our Armory here.

In determining the model arm, the Commissioners were necessarily obliged to decide upon the relative merits of muzzle-loading and breech-loading arms for infantry. Wishing to be governed by practical experience in this matter, and not by theory, they applied to the War Department, through our Senators, Messrs, Mason and Hunter, for information as to the usages of the European armies in this particular, and learned from the Ordnance Bureau that so far as the Department was informed, all the great armies of Europe adhered to the muzzle-loading musket for infantry.

They then instituted a course of experiments at Lexington, under the charge of Maj.Colston, to test the relative merits of muzzle and breech-loading muskets, and the result was a report from him, recommending most decidedly an adherence to the muzzle-loading musket.

Richmond Dispatch.
Monday morning...Nov. 18, 1861.
Revelations of a Lincoln spy.

Foundries, arms, and equipments.

The arms in general use among the rebel troops are old United States muskets, altered from flintlocks into percussion, and rifled. There is a factory of small firearms at Richmond, and one at Fayette, North Carolina. in the former they rifle the smooth bores, and also rifle cannon. The Tredegar Iron Works, at Richmond, are said to turn out tight small and four large rifled cannon daily. There are also cannon foundries at Atlanta, Ga., the iron being procured from Dalton, near by; two on the Cumberland river, right in the midst of the iron country; two at Memphis, and one at New Orleans. Powder is manufactured at Little Rock, Ark., where sulphur is found in large quantities. Gun carriages and forges are made at Nashville and at Atlanta, Georgia.

Richmond Dispatch.
Wednesday morning...Feb. 26 1862.
Late Northern news.


From Fortress Monroe.
Fortress Monroe, Feb. 20.

--Gen. Burnside is negotiating with the rebel authorities at Norfolk for their release.

No further advance had been made by Gen. Burnside, nor was any immediately expected.

The gunboats had returned from Elizabeth City.

All the fleet were at anchor off Roanoke Island.

An immense amount of trophies has been captured, including the splendid State flag of North Carolina, worked by the ladies of that State; also quaint and antiquated arms, old swords and sabres, and flintlock muskets, shotguns and pistols, rusty with age.

Fortress Monroe,Feb. 19.--Three thousand five hundred stand of arms were captured at Roanoke Island by Gen. Burnside, and seventy-five tons of ammunition.

The shipsteamer Alice Price arrived at Hatteras in good condition, and, with the shipsteamer Louisiana, had gone to Roanoke. Gen. Burnside's troops have nearly all been re-embarked.

The revised list of killed and wounded at Roanoke Island and at Elizabeth stands as follows: --Killed, 50; wounded, 222. This includes the losses in both army and navy. The wounded are doing very well.

The rebel prisoners are awaiting arrangements for being paroled. Their officers had been sent on board the Spalding. The prisoners number two thousand five hundred and twenty-seven.

The French Admiral and his staff came from Norfolk yesterday.

http://www.vmi.edu/archives.aspx?id=17895

[ACo.]

I too have difficulty with the list posted by Mr. Washburn above showing issue of large numbers of foreign arms to troops at 1st Manassas, though I am sure it was posted in good faith. As far as Virginia troops at the beginning of the War, here is a document listing EXACTLY what was issued by the Commonwealth - no wishfull thinking or newspaper bravado. It is dated June 17, 1861 and is entitled "MESSAGE FROM THE EXECUTIVE OF THE COMMONWEALTH, WITH ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTS, SHOWING THE MILITARY AND NAVAL PREPARATIONS FOR THE DEFENCE OF THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, &c. &c.:

http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/message/message.html

If you are looking for what a particular unit carried in the early part of the War, find where that unit was formed (usually based on pre-War militia) and you can take a fair guess.

[Regular3]

Mr. Hern,

That excellent document is the kind of thing that "arouses our appetite [for information] without beddin' her back down" - For example, what were these "altered muskets"? - 1816/1822? Were "altered percussion muskets" rifled 1842s? What was a "Virginia rifle"? An "English flint musket"? An "original percussion musket"?

The more we find out, the more we don't know :mrgreen: ... I've long said that if time travel were truly possible one of the first dates I'd love to visit is July 21, 1861.

[Blair]

Darrel,

Good questions.
The trims, "altered muskets"? or, "altered percussion muskets" may mean either or those altered from flint to percussion or those '42's or older models that were rifled out.
You may have to take into consideration what the other items were also issued at the same time to be able to make an educated guess as to what the records are referring to.
"Virginia rifle"? are/were Rifled firearms as were manufacture by the 'old' Virginia Manufacturer. Not to be confused with the smooth bore Muskets as were manufactured by the Virginia Manufacturer. Both were produced to provide the State/Commonwealth with the arms needed for their Militia.
"English flint musket"? Maybe in reference to left over, yet still servisable Rev. War or War of 1812 arms still in storage within the State/Commonwealth Arsenals.

What you may find interesting is the reference to "Harpers Ferry Rifles". These will most likely be referring to M-1841 Rifles. In the years just before the War Harpers Ferry was in the process of altering/modifying thousands of M-1841's for using sword bayonets. Along with other "up grades".
The M-1855's were manufactured at both Harpers Ferry and Springfield Armories.
Whereas the M-1841's were made only at Harpers Ferry Armory, and a few contractors like, Robins Kendall & Lawrence, Robins & Lawrence, Remington, Tryon, Whitey and the Palmetto Armory (I think I got all the contractors). No M-1841's were made by Springfield Armory, therefore, these are all refereed to as "Harpers Ferry Rifles" in these early records.

[RJSamp]

I got this off a wargaming site. I have no clue about the sources or the reliability of this info.

Confederate Units at 1st Bull Run:

2nd Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
4th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
5th Virginia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
27th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
33rd Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
7th Georgia – US M1842 Muskets.
8th Georgia – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
4th Alabama – US M1842 Muskets.
6th North Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Mississippi – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
11th Mississippi – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Maryland Battalion "Zouave Guards" – US M1841 Mississippi Rifle.
3rd Tennessee "Vaughn's Third" – US M1842 Muskets.
10th Virginia "Warren's" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
2nd Tennessee "Walker's Second" – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
1st Arkansas – US M1842 Muskets
11th North Carolina – US M1822 Muskets.
2nd South Carolina "Palmento Guards" – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
3rd South Carolina – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
7th South Carolina – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
8th South Carolina – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
5th Alabama – Tyler Texas Rifles.
6th Alabama – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
6th Louisiana – US M1842 Muskets.
17th Mississippi "Featherston's" – US M1822 Muskets.
18th Mississippi "Burt's" – US M1822 Muskets.
5th South Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
5th North Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
11th Virginia "Southern Guard" – US M1855 Harpers Ferry Rifles.
17th Virginia "Alexandria Rifles" – US M1842 Muskets.
8th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
18th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
19th Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
28th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
49th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
13th Mississippi "Barksdale's" – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
7th Louisiana – US M1842 Muskets.
7th Virginia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
24th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
4th South Carolina – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
1st Louisiana Special Battalion "Wheat's Tigers" – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
8th Louisiana – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
Hampton's South Carolina Legion – French Liege Muskets.

Union Units at 1st Bull Run:

2nd Maine – US M1822 Muskets.
1st Connecticut – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Connecticut – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
3rd Connecticut – US M1842 Muskets.
82nd New York "2nd New York Militia" – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
1st Ohio – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Ohio – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
13th New York "Rochester Regiment" – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
69th New York "Meagher's Zouaves" – US M1842 Muskets.
79th New York "Highlanders" – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Wisconsin – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
1st Massachusetts – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
12th New York – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Michigan – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd Michigan – US M1822 Muskets.
8th New York Militia "Washington Grays" – US M1842 Muskets.
27th New York "Union Regiment" – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
84th New York "14th Brooklyn" – 1853 British Enfield Rifles.
Sykes' Battalion of U.S. Infantry – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
Battalion of U.S. Marines – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd New Hampshire – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Rhode Island – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Rhode Island – US M1822 Muskets.
71st New York – French Liege Muskets.
5th Massechusetts Militia – US M1842 Muskets.
11th Massachusetts "Boston Volunteers" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
1st Minnesota – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
38th New York "2nd Scott's Life Guards" – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Michigan – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
4th Michigan – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd Maine – French Liege Muskets.
4th Maine – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
5th Maine – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Vermont – US M1842 Muskets.
1st New Jersey Militia – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd New Jersey Militia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
3rd New Jersey Militia – US M1842 Muskets.
4th New Jersey Militia – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
1st New Jersey Volunteers – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
2nd New Jersey Volunteers – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd New Jersey Volunteers – 1839 Bavarian Muskets.
41st New York "2nd Jager Regiment" – US M1842 Muskets.
8th New York – US M1842 Muskets.
29th New York "Astor Rifles" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
39th New York "Garibaldi Guard" – US M1842 Muskets.
27th Pennsylvania – French Liege Muskets.
16th New York – US M1842 Muskets.
18th New York – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
31st New York "Baxter's Light Guard" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
32nd New York – 1839 Bavarian Muskets.

2nd Wisconsin armed with Belgian Muskets at Bull Run.....didn't receive the Lorenz till later...

[Tiger_rifles]

Mr Hern, a wealth of information! Thank you so very much.

Now when they say "United States Flint Muskets", my best guess would be Mdl 1816/22 or maybe the earlier Mdl 1795.
"Virginia Flint Musket" should be the Va. Mfg. Muskets Blair spoke of.
But what do you think they meant by "Flint Musket"? Just a lazy/busy clerk, or maybe older Brown Bess style muskets?

My money for "Altered Muskets" would be Mdl 1816/22's conv. to percusion cap.

I grew up on a large farm that bordered the battlefield. I found many 54 cal. RB and minies, even more of 69 cal. RB and some buck, a few 69 cal. minies, but I only ever found one 58 cal. 3 ring. Never found any odd cal. like 75, 72, or the like.

I do not have the ref. in front of me, but I do know there was an issue at Richmond in 1861 ref. issueing weapons to troops from out of the state. It was decided to issue and collect the funds from that state at a later time. I mean the war will be over in a few weeks, RIGHT?

[Blair]

Paul,

"United States Flint Muskets", could be the 1816/22 as well as the 1835/40 Armory made firearms. The M-1835's were the last model flint Muskets produced by the U S Armories. The term may be used for any of the earlier United States Armory made flint Muskets to delineate them from any of the contract models.

"Flint Musket" maybe in reference to serviceable firearms purchased under the "Committee of Safety" system. The Committee of Safety has its start in 1775 and was intended to providing firearms for the Militia. This system will be replaced, in part, by the 1808 Militia Act of providing firearms for the Militia.
As a rule, these arms do no necessarily follow any given model type or pattern.

[TheQM]

Paul,

"United States Flint Muskets", could be the 1816/22 as well as the 1835/40 Armory made firearms. The M-1835's were the last model flint Muskets produced by the U S Armories.

Blair,

Weren't almost all the M-1835/40 Flintlock Muskets converted to percussion prior to the Civil War?

[Blair]

Bill,

Yes, many that were maintained in the National Armories were altered or modified in the 1850's. But many had been issued out to various States under the 1808 Militia Act as 'old' or obsolete yet serviseable firearms after the M-1842 was adopted.

[ACo.]

2nd Wisconsin armed with Belgian Muskets at Bull Run.....didn't receive the Lorenz till later...

Doubtful RJ, where did this information come from? I may be wrong but I am not aware that any foreign muskets had been imported at that early date.

[ACo.]

Darrel, Blair's reply is, as always, full of excellent information and I will add some more if I may:


Darrel,

Good questions.
The trims, "altered muskets"? or, "altered percussion muskets" may mean either or those altered from flint to percussion or those '42's or older models that were rifled out.
You may have to take into consideration what the other items were also issued at the same time to be able to make an educated guess as to what the records are referring to.

Correct, though I think that, if they refer to earlier, converted arms, then "altered muskets" means exactly that - flint arms converted to percussion but not rifled. Earlier arms were considered to light in the barrel to be rifled safely though it was done in limited numbers. The M1840 Flint Muskets had a heavier barrel since they expected to rifle them at a later date if necessary. The same was true of the M1842 percussion muskets.



"Virginia rifle"? are/were Rifled firearms as were manufacture by the 'old' Virginia Manufacturer. Not to be confused with the smooth bore Muskets as were manufactured by the Virginia Manufacturer. Both were produced to provide the State/Commonwealth with the arms needed for their Militia.

The "Virginia rifle" was produced in three patterns by the old Virginia Manufactory in Richmond from 1802 - 1821. It was, in it's earliest form an iron mounted, long rifle of civilian type with 44" octagon to round barrel (or was it 42", memory fails and I am away from my references) of about .45 caliber. The later two patterns (one a transitional type and rare) of Virginia Manufactory rifle were produced with a swamped octagon barrel and slightly different stock and brass furniture. The term "Virginia rifle" could also refer to rifles produced by several contractors who made "Kentucky" or better called American Longrifles for the Commonwealth. Rifles made by the contractors varied from the Va. Manufactory patterns being more like those the makers produced for their civilian customers but they were all of the standard caliber.


"English flint musket"? Maybe in reference to left over, yet still servisable Rev. War or War of 1812 arms still in storage within the State/Commonwealth Arsenals.

And there possibly were a fair number of British Land Pattern muskets (Long Land with 44 inch barrels, Short Land Pattern with 42 inch barrel and India Pattern with 39 inch barrels) available, stored in the State Arsenals in Richmond and Lexington, enough to equip several companies in the remote, western part of the state. These were likely India Pattern muskets received from England by purchase in the 1790s when the Federal Government arranged with English sellers for the importation of several thousand muskets and carbines of the standard British government pattern. But... (and there is always a "but") these may have been British Pattern muskets imported by a Mr. Swan in the 1790s from makers in Belgium and Germany. Swan contracted with the Commonwealth to provide arms for the militia of Short Land Pattern and the issuing Ordnance people or their recipients just assumed that they were British. As a side note, the Swan muskets were pretty much crap and caused the Commonwealth a lot of heartburn, many did not pass our standards of proof or pattern and Swan was paid less than he had expected and if I recall correctly, he had to declare bankruptcy because of these contracts.


What you may find interesting is the reference to "Harpers Ferry Rifles". These will most likely be referring to M-1841 Rifles. In the years just before the War Harpers Ferry was in the process of altering/modifying thousands of M-1841's for using sword bayonets. Along with other "up grades".
The M-1855's were manufactured at both Harpers Ferry and Springfield Armories.
Whereas the M-1841's were made only at Harpers Ferry Armory, and a few contractors like, Robins Kendall & Lawrence, Robins & Lawrence, Remington, Tryon, Whitey and the Palmetto Armory (I think I got all the contractors). No M-1841's were made by Springfield Armory, therefore, these are all refereed to as "Harpers Ferry Rifles" in these early records.

Could be but it is also possible, even likely, that they were in some cases earlier Harpers Ferry pattern guns that were obsolete in Federal service. At least one company of the 33rd Virginia was armed with the M1803 Rifle. There could also have been some M1814 and M1817 Rifles in Virginia inventory. The national armory (Harpers Ferry) production of the M1841 was supposedly for issue to national troops and the contract production of the M1841 were supposed to be for issue under the 1808 Militia Act.

[Tiger_rifles]

OK, I just got off the wire with the "Head Man" at Manassas. Here is what he said:

"Paul,

Interesting list but I would not trust it entirely. The various companies
of each regiment on both sides were seldom uniformly armed. For instance
it is known that certain companies of the 1st and 2nd Connecticut had
Sharps rifles while other companies in those units were armed with M1842
muskets. One company of the 1st Rhode Island had Burnside Carbines but
the balance of the regiment had rifles or rifle-muskets. At least one
company of the 4th Virginia, the Liberty Hall Vols., had M1851 Cadet
muskets from VMI and we have photographic evidence to support that. As
previously noted at least one company of the 33rd Va. had flintlock
muskets. Often the flank companies of regiments were issued rifled weapons
for skirmishing while the other 8 'line" companies had smoothbores.
Determining what firearms were actually issued to each unit is difficult
to assess because available sources do not use standardized nomenclature.
The term "musket" could pertain to a smoothbore musket, rifled musket or
rifle-musket. Likewise, the term "rifle" could also be applied to a .58
rifle-musket or .69 rifled musket.

To my knowledge the only unit at First Manassas that may have had imported
arms is Hampton's Legion. It is known that Wade Hampton ordered Enfield
rifles (or rifle-muskets) from England well before the battle. There is
some uncertainty as to when these weapons arrived. Some sources suggest
they arrived after the battle. However, there are one or two battle
accounts that seem to indicate some of Hampton's men had rifles. Most of
the imported arms did not come in and begin to get issued until late 1861.
For a more thorough discussion of the subject, you may want to locate a
copy of the book, Firearms From Europe, by Dan Hartzler and James Whisker."

[Blair]

T P

quote,"Earlier arms were considered to light in the barrel to be rifled safely though it was done in limited numbers. The M1840 Flint Muskets had a heavier barrel since they expected to rifle them at a later date if necessary. The same was true of the M1842 percussion muskets."

In my personal examination of these various firearms, I have not found there to be any real difference in the barrel and bore dimensions at the muzzle of the 1816/22, 1835/40 or the 1842's.
This, of course, is not to say that some of the older firearms like the 1816/22 may not have some ramrod wear at the muzzle form use.
The National Armories had a solution for rifling out these thin walled barrels. It was a process used specific to and for the rifling of smooth bore muskets.
This form of rifling is call "Progressive Depth Rifling". The grove cut is very light at the muzzle end of the barrel, perhaps only .001. The grove cut got deeper the closer to the breech end, perhaps as deep as .003 to .004 deep per grove.
The greatest advantage the 1835/40 and 1842 barrels had over the earlier models were the fact that the barrels were steel with their bores drilled. No longer made of skelp welded flat iron bars to create the bore.

[navygunner]

The Union purchases of arms can be found in ORA's series 3 vol 2 pg 844-855. during that time import purchases ran about 7 to 1 against domestic arms.

[ACo.]

T P

quote,"Earlier arms were considered to light in the barrel to be rifled safely though it was done in limited numbers. The M1840 Flint Muskets had a heavier barrel since they expected to rifle them at a later date if necessary. The same was true of the M1842 percussion muskets."

In my personal examination of these various firearms, I have not found there to be any real difference in the barrel and bore dimensions at the muzzle of the 1816/22, 1835/40 or the 1842's.
This, of course, is not to say that some of the older firearms like the 1816/22 may not have some ramrod wear at the muzzle form use.
The National Armories had a solution for rifling out these thin walled barrels. It was a process used specific to and for the rifling of smooth bore muskets.
This form of rifling is call "Progressive Depth Rifling". The grove cut is very light at the muzzle end of the barrel, perhaps only .001. The grove cut got deeper the closer to the breech end, perhaps as deep as .003 to .004 deep per grove.

Blair I am sorry I have not gotten back to you on this, I keep forgetting to search for quotes in reference works in the evening, so lacking time, I am going to have to forge ahead. I do know that James E Hicks in "U.S. firearms, 1776-1956;: Notes on U.S. ordnance, vol. 1" mentions the fact that the M1840 as well as the M1842 barrels were made slightly heavier in the breach section to allow for rifling in the future. George D. Moller in his "American Military Shoulder Arms, Vol. 2: From the 1790s to the End of the Flintlock Period" specifically states that the barrel of the M1840 flint musket is made heavier than the earlier model guns. And I do know that, back when I had the luxury of taking measurements myself that I found this to be true to my own satisfaction. The muzzles are only slightly heavier, the main difference (slight) is in the breach.


The greatest advantage the 1835/40 and 1842 barrels had over the earlier models were the fact that the barrels were steel with their bores drilled. No longer made of skelp welded flat iron bars to create the bore.

Again, I am going from memory here so I hope I do not end up with egg on my face. The barrels of all US smoothbored muskets were made of iron, not steel. As a matter of fact, IIRC, all US longarms, rifled and smoothbored, were iron until after the era of which we are speaking. More later when I can get the time to check references.

[Blair]

T P,

The one question tha comes to my mind is, When were most of these arms, flint and/or percussion, altered or converted from their original confuguration?
Flint to percussion begains in earnest in the first half of the 1850's by the National Armories. The intended reason for this was to extend their usfull service life
Percussion Muskets to "Rifled" Percussion Muskets in the second half of the 1850's by the National Armories. This was indended to offer additional serviceable Rifled firearms to the newly adopted Rifled Muskets (M-1855)
In the case of flint to percussion, it is after actual production of the arm has ended.
In the case of rifling out Percussion Muskets, this too is after the model arm production had ended.

I have not found, in any research I have ever conducted, where any model smooth bore Musket model was adopted with the intent for being "rifled" out at a later or future date.
Quite the opposit of the Armory system of adopting a smooth bore and rifle models to be in production at the same time. This is why "Rifles" of various models were adopted. At least until the introduction and adoption of the "Rifle Musket".

[TheQM]

Again, I am going from memory here so I hope I do not end up with egg on my face. The barrels of all US smoothbored muskets were made of iron, not steel. As a matter of fact, IIRC, all US longarms, rifled and smoothbored, were iron until after the era of which we are speaking. More later when I can get the time to check references.

Actually, the Colt Special Model Rifle-Muskets were made with steel barrels and were so-marked on the barrel. The word "STEEL" is stamped on the breach flat, right below the flat where the VP & eagle head are stamped.

As far as I know, you are correct about the large majority of both rifled and smoothbore muskets being made with iron barrels.

[Blair]

Bill,

You are correct.
However, you can go back much earlier and find the M-1841 Rifles and the M-1855 Rifles commonly marked with "Steel" on the breech of the barrels.
Less common is to see "Steel" marked on Musket barrels, but it is occasionally observed on barrels dating back to the M-1835's.
It is during the production of this model that the "all steel" deep hole drilled barrels are introduced into the American system of firearms manufacturing.
This is also one of the reasons why it took 5 years from the time this model arm was adopted until actual production firearms start showing up. The devepopment of this process is one of the reasons why this model arm is often called M-1835/40.
The machinery developed for this deep hole drilling of all steel barrels in the late 1830's is/are still available for viewing at the Springfield Armory.

[CameronsHighlander]

I would use that list as a starting point. Thats a very general list. The 79th New York for example had a mix and match of arms. 1816 conversions, 42s, 1855s, ect. Anything that could shoot :rolleyes:

Actually for most part the 79th had 42 Sprigfields or 55 Enfields since the 79th and 69th were both State Militias prior to the War they would have been equiped with what most militias would have but to work in absolutes is wrong but the 1816's would have been phased out of the Militia by this point with a few exceptions..

Most Flintlocks would have been carried by a troop here or there most taken from over the mantle peice so I would not be to suprised if they were Old Texas Revolution, 1812, or Rev War Muskets. I would question Safety of using a Flitlock at a Civil War event even with a flash guard there will still be the flash in the Pan and someone could get burned particularly if the Flintlock is in the rear rank

[CameronsHighlander]

I got this off a wargaming site. I have no clue about the sources or the reliability of this info.

Confederate Units at 1st Bull Run:

2nd Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
4th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
5th Virginia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
27th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
33rd Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
7th Georgia – US M1842 Muskets.
8th Georgia – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
4th Alabama – US M1842 Muskets.
6th North Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Mississippi – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
11th Mississippi – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Maryland Battalion "Zouave Guards" – US M1841 Mississippi Rifle.
3rd Tennessee "Vaughn's Third" – US M1842 Muskets.
10th Virginia "Warren's" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
2nd Tennessee "Walker's Second" – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
1st Arkansas – US M1842 Muskets
11th North Carolina – US M1822 Muskets.
2nd South Carolina "Palmento Guards" – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
3rd South Carolina – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
7th South Carolina – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
8th South Carolina – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
5th Alabama – Tyler Texas Rifles.
6th Alabama – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
6th Louisiana – US M1842 Muskets.
17th Mississippi "Featherston's" – US M1822 Muskets.
18th Mississippi "Burt's" – US M1822 Muskets.
5th South Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
5th North Carolina – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
11th Virginia "Southern Guard" – US M1855 Harpers Ferry Rifles.
17th Virginia "Alexandria Rifles" – US M1842 Muskets.
8th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
18th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
19th Virginia – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
28th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
49th Virginia – US M1842 Muskets.
13th Mississippi "Barksdale's" – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
7th Louisiana – US M1842 Muskets.
7th Virginia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
24th Virginia – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
4th South Carolina – US M1842 Palmetto Rifles.
1st Louisiana Special Battalion "Wheat's Tigers" – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
8th Louisiana – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
Hampton's South Carolina Legion – French Liege Muskets.

Union Units at 1st Bull Run:

2nd Maine – US M1822 Muskets.
1st Connecticut – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Connecticut – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
3rd Connecticut – US M1842 Muskets.
82nd New York "2nd New York Militia" – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
1st Ohio – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Ohio – US M1816 Flintlock Muskets.
13th New York "Rochester Regiment" – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
69th New York "Meagher's Zouaves" – US M1842 Muskets.
79th New York "Highlanders" – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Wisconsin – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
1st Massachusetts – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
12th New York – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Michigan – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd Michigan – US M1822 Muskets.
8th New York Militia "Washington Grays" – US M1842 Muskets.
27th New York "Union Regiment" – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
84th New York "14th Brooklyn" – 1853 British Enfield Rifles.
Sykes' Battalion of U.S. Infantry – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
Battalion of U.S. Marines – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd New Hampshire – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Rhode Island – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd Rhode Island – US M1822 Muskets.
71st New York – French Liege Muskets.
5th Massechusetts Militia – US M1842 Muskets.
11th Massachusetts "Boston Volunteers" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
1st Minnesota – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
38th New York "2nd Scott's Life Guards" – US M1842 Muskets.
1st Michigan – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
4th Michigan – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd Maine – French Liege Muskets.
4th Maine – 1854 Austrian Lorenz Rifles.
5th Maine – US M1842 Muskets.
2nd Vermont – US M1842 Muskets.
1st New Jersey Militia – M1855 Harper Ferry Rifles.
2nd New Jersey Militia – 1843 Belgian Muskets.
3rd New Jersey Militia – US M1842 Muskets.
4th New Jersey Militia – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
1st New Jersey Volunteers – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
2nd New Jersey Volunteers – US M1842 Muskets.
3rd New Jersey Volunteers – 1839 Bavarian Muskets.
41st New York "2nd Jager Regiment" – US M1842 Muskets.
8th New York – US M1842 Muskets.
29th New York "Astor Rifles" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
39th New York "Garibaldi Guard" – US M1842 Muskets.
27th Pennsylvania – French Liege Muskets.
16th New York – US M1842 Muskets.
18th New York – US M1841 Mississippi Rifles.
31st New York "Baxter's Light Guard" – Prussian 1834 Muskets.
32nd New York – 1839 Bavarian Muskets.


Wargaming this looks like list from Take Command 1861 this list. Thats probably the best PC Battle game of all time..

Only company E of the 69th was Meagers Zouaves the rest were traditionally Militia Uniforms

[Fighting Irishman]

I know for a fact that the Irish Zouaves (Meagher's Zouaves) were Company K of the 69th New York, and that they were using .69 caliber Springfield model 1816 muskets, altered to percussion with a Remington tape primer lock and rifled and sighted at the time of alteration. It fired a large Minnie ball. The socket bayonet was different that the 1816 version.
The Rest of the 69th New York Militia was using the Springfield 1842 .69 caliber smoothbore musket. It fired buck and ball.
"Erin go Braugh!"
--Cpl P. Gilbert
69th New York Co. B
1862, ACWA

[Rob Weaver]

I think the old "rifle taken down from the doorway" story is more myth than reality. However, there were a number of state arsenals that still had flintlocks in their inventories at the beginning of the war. I'm not really up on this, but I know I've located at least 4 Tenn. regiments flintlock armed: one of which was at Donelson. One of the major problems Tenn encountered was that although the muskets were preserved and issued, they had a severe shortage of bayonets, a major problem for an infantry arm in this time period. These guns didn't date back to the Revolution, for the most part. Tower muskets from 1812, and US 1816s are the majority of long arms. As has already been discussed, the majority of the flintlocks had been altered to percussion. The rapidity of the switch from flint to percussion is one of the great stories of technological innovation.
I've fired flintlocks for over 30 years in the reenacting setting. There are a few safety concerns which must be addressed, but they are not as insurmountable as some of our Civil War brethren seem to believe they are. 1) Every flintlock needs a hammer stall and flash guard. Both are inexpensive and easily made or obtained.
2) Drill and learn how to fire them from the rear rank. It's not hard. If you have only one or two flintlocks in a mixed company, put them in the front rank.
I'm not in favor of flintlocks overwhelming the reenacting scene: they were a vastly obsolete military technology by 1861, and are not representative of the arms which fought the war. However, I'm not opposed to them showing up at commemorative events where they are historically accurate, or the occasional "non-specific" civil war weekend which is not associated with any particular time or place. I would recommend the individual toting such a gun, or the commander of a unit carrying them, to be prepared to demonstrate both firearms safety and historical documentation for the arm.

[CameronsHighlander]

I always thought Meager's Zouaves were E company thanks for the correction I am up on my 79th History not so much on our Sister Regt in Shermans Brig.

I do Rev war part time and have brought my Bess to a civil War event as well as my 1861 Springfield, I was never allowed to take the field with the Brown Bess and I have all the BAR/BVMA approved safety requirements. The concearn is a rogue spark in the priming pan which personally I cannot figure out how it could happen. Unless you get a left handed rifle where the primer of one would be directly next to the flash pan. A warning if you have one and intend to put a flash guard on any Flintlock make sure you have help it is a serious pain to do alone it took me two hours with a pair of pliers, a screwdriver, and a vice.


BAR and BVMA are the Battalions in Rev War similar to the USV/ANV

[Rob Weaver]

I used to be BAR, also! Yep. What you're running into is the longstanding unreasonable fear of flintlocks in the CW community of which I was speaking. I also think there's little one guy can do, showing up with a flintlock at an event. It's going to take an entire unit showing up with the correct gun for the time period portrayed with a level of drill proficiency that's high enough to speak convincingly to the safety issue. (like 10th Tenn at Donelson, for instance)

[CameronsHighlander]

I've always said if the BAR passes it then the USV/ANV should, granted it wasn't the 1776 Stowie Brown Bess (I have a rarely used Rev War Weapon most were the 1754 Grice Brown Bess). Keep them Front rank with Flash Guard and nobody will get hurt the worst would be firing into the wind which causes flash back but that can happen with a Percussion. In comparison I would much rather have a Flintlock then the 5 or 6 winged caps which are very, very dangerous (I've even had 4 winged spit metal)

[Rob Weaver]

The BAR has always been safety conscious. I agree that at this point it would be easy to work up safety regs for flintlocks, along the lines of what you just printed.