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View Full Version : New Repro Lorenz soon to be on the market



trippcor
09-18-2006, 05:46 PM
Loyalist Arms will soon be offering a reproduction of the Lorenz according to their website (http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1854LORENZ.htm). After some email discussions with the owner, I understand the pictures they have posted are of the prototype only and that the production model will have several refinements. As a matter of fact, Loyalist Arms is doing some more research to further improve the prototype before it goes into final production so now would be a good time to put your two cents in to get a better quality and more accurate weapon.

I know this is one many of us have hoped for and it looks like we just might get it. Will it be perfect? No not by any means. Will it be as good as any of the Italian repros we use now? I certainly think so with time. I have a Long Land Bess from Loyalist Arms. I know they have continually refined that weapon as new information has been made availible. I would expect the same for the Lorenz.

My recommendation would be to contact Loyalist Arms and pass along any research or pictures you may have on original weapons. Also let them know of you interest in it and that the more accurate the better. It cost a lot of money to develop a new product like this. The more folks they know are interested and what concerns they may have the better.

HighPrvt
09-18-2006, 07:39 PM
I'm definately interested. if it'll past muster.

31stWisconsin
09-18-2006, 08:21 PM
Who is the manufacturer?

Some no-name from India?

trippcor
09-18-2006, 09:24 PM
I do believe much of the weapon is manufactured in India. Loyalist Arms then does the final finishing at their shop in Canada. This includes finishing the stock and final fitting of all the metal parts.

RJSamp
09-18-2006, 09:40 PM
Are these the ones in .62 musket instead of .54 rifled musket (or rebored to .577 for the 7th Wisconsin and others)??

trippcor
09-19-2006, 06:10 AM
The Loyalist Arms website has all the specs for their product.

RJSamp
09-19-2006, 07:33 AM
The Loyalist Arms website has all the specs for their product.

Thanks. To be specific, it's not rifled and it's in the wrong sized bore.

Maybe they'll get it right the second time around.

Thanks Tripp!

jurgitemvaletem
10-17-2006, 12:57 PM
has anyone heard anything else about these lorenzes? Did anyone ever buy one, and let me know about how it is?

thanks,
Jurgitem Valetem

DanSwitzer
10-17-2006, 01:29 PM
I own a 1700s French military flintlock from these folks and have to say that the workmanship and materials are definitely several rungs below the worst that is available from the run of the mill weapons for ACW use from Pedersoli, ArmiSport, EuroArms, Parker-Hale and others. The metal work has a funny "pot metal" finish to it and the fit and finish of the piece overall is quite poor. Lock performance? Well, let's not go there. It is hit or miss.

I think this is a case of making one thing and calling it another. Just because I put high heels and lipstick on my pet bulldog doesn't make her Marilyn Monroe. In this case, based on point of origin, I think it would be calling a pig Aishwarya Raj. (http://www.bollywood2000.com/photos/aishwarya/big/ash3.jpg)

Big Dan

bob 125th nysvi
10-17-2006, 03:52 PM
Who is the manufacturer?

Some no-name from India?

I'd like to remind eveybody that those same "Indians" also built the Tagemahal (sic). And continue to make edged weapons that are used in combat by tribal militias to this day.

Properly paid, guided and motivated they can produce as fine a product as you'd ever see.

Don't blame the workers if the buyer orders shoddy products

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

DanSwitzer
10-17-2006, 04:22 PM
I'd like to remind eveybody that those same "Indians" also built the Tagemahal (sic). And continue to make edged weapons that are used in combat by tribal militias to this day.

Properly paid, guided and motivated they can produce as fine a product as you'd ever see.

Don't blame the workers if the buyer orders shoddy products

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

How would we know what the buyer ordered? I don't know. I am merely reporting my personal experience in buying this firm's products...for what it is worth. Roll the dice with your own $500 dollars and see what it yields for you. Maybe you'll be happy with your experiment/gamble. Maybe you will not be happy. Maybe you will force yourself to be happy because you have chosen to roll the dice with $500 and you feeel the need to make yourself appear to be happy with the piece of c-r-a-p you have just paid $500 for. I am just passing on the benefit of my experience to you, but perhaps you just need to pee on the electric fence yourself to draw your own conclusions.

It's a free country. Bad decisions are just as available as good decisions; but when you make the bad decision, don't expect much sympathy from those who have warned you and don't expect to come back here and sell this piece of garbage as "an authentic repro Lorenz." It isn't and won't be until it comes up to specs. Actions have consequences. What a concept!

Big Dan

HighPrvt
10-17-2006, 05:49 PM
The Indians are capable of building fine weapons. Over the years they have built fine copies of various Enfield rifles up, the FAL and their current rifle the INSAS, an improved version of the Israeli Galil....


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images2/0549.jpg


However just because they are capable of building world class weapons doesn't mean that these are...

After all we have Colt, S&W, Remmington..........
BUT we also have Jennings, Hi-Point, AMT, etc. building junk.

vicka
10-17-2006, 06:26 PM
Go to the Authentic Campaigner and use the SEARCH function, put in the word LORENZ. There are two lengthy and current threads on this topic, and included in one is a chap who actually owns the prototype, Jim Chocohole, so he can speak from experience rather than pure speculation about the Indian made Lorenz.
Steve Sullivan

bob 125th nysvi
10-17-2006, 10:05 PM
How would we know what the buyer ordered? I don't know. I am merely reporting my personal experience in buying this firm's products...for what it is worth. Roll the dice with your own $500 dollars and see what it yields for you. Maybe you'll be happy with your experiment/gamble. Maybe you will not be happy. Maybe you will force yourself to be happy because you have chosen to roll the dice with $500 and you feeel the need to make yourself appear to be happy with the piece of c-r-a-p you have just paid $500 for. I am just passing on the benefit of my experience to you, but perhaps you just need to pee on the electric fence yourself to draw your own conclusions.

It's a free country. Bad decisions are just as available as good decisions; but when you make the bad decision, don't expect much sympathy from those who have warned you and don't expect to come back here and sell this piece of garbage as "an authentic repro Lorenz." It isn't and won't be until it comes up to specs. Actions have consequences. What a concept!

Big Dan

One persons experience represents exactly that .....

one's experience and not the whole picture.

Besides you were not commenting on the company, you were the one who tossed the whole sub-continent under the bus.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

RJSamp
10-17-2006, 11:19 PM
One persons experience represents exactly that .....

one's experience and not the whole picture.

Besides you were not commenting on the company, you were the one who tossed the whole sub-continent under the bus.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

Bob, you're the one not reading Dan's posts:

"I own a 1700s French military flintlock from these folks and have to say that the workmanship and materials are definitely several rungs below the worst that is available from the run of the mill weapons for ACW use from Pedersoli, ArmiSport, EuroArms, Parker-Hale and others. The metal work has a funny "pot metal" finish to it and the fit and finish of the piece overall is quite poor. Lock performance? Well, let's not go there. It is hit or miss."

If that's not a comment on the Company Bob, I don't know what is.

What ever happened to Bangladesh?

As far as the lorenz goes, it's smoothbore and .62 caliber. Where's Curt-Heinrich Schmidt when you need him....but I thought that the vast majority of the Lorenz' brought over were .54 caliber and rifled....many rebored to ..577.

GrumpyDave
10-18-2006, 05:46 AM
Yep, it's way over bored and there's no bayonet for the thing. I think demand will fix a lot of things; in time. There will be folks who jump in with both feet s there always is with any new product.

12thriv
10-18-2006, 10:35 AM
Unfortunatly people will be buying original lorenz parts to try and "defarb" this new Frankengun. For what its worth, you can pick up an original for a couple of hundred bucks more. What do i know though, its my opinion :rolleyes:

DanSwitzer
10-18-2006, 12:12 PM
"Besides you were not commenting on the company, you were the one who tossed the whole sub-continent under the bus."

I never said anything in my posts negative about any subcontinent, continent or incontinent. Besides, I like India. Some of my best friends are Indians. I like rice and curry chicken and many times, when I get out of the shower, I wind a towel around my head. I have the Concert for Bangladesh album and even listened to Ravi Shankar back in the day. I've watched Ghandi and Passage to India several times each. Besides, if I got rid of all my Indian and Pakistani reenacting stuff, the only thing I'd have left is a half box of Bent crackers and a pair of Mexican-made brogans. I just don't like that flinter musket and I'm not even sure where it was made. My neighbor could've made it for all I know. He's always out there beating and banging on something. In fact, I think I'll go ask him. This thing looks like one of his projects anyway.

Big Dan

31stWisconsin
10-18-2006, 12:49 PM
I just think it takes considerable skill and experience to make a firearm, especially a muzzle-loader, and the subcontractors arn't just up to that level. But as someone said, remember that the Remington 700 and the .25 Jennings both come from the same country.

I know that I'm going to build a Lorenz from a parts kits. FYI, and orginal ballparks around 1 K. I just expect alot from my firearms and these repops arn't going to cut it.

coastaltrash
10-18-2006, 02:12 PM
RJ,

Curt already did a pretty good job of commenting on this repop, and hitting on a few soft spots of the other repops on the market, like the 61 Springfield and it's flaws. It's on the AC discussion of this same topic though.

Patrick Landrum

dirtyshirt
10-23-2006, 03:32 PM
Yes, I have the prototype Lorenz and I have taken it into battle and given it a rough going over. The lock took about 40 rounds at one time through it and the mainspring is durable. I was intentionally rough on it as well. The Lorenz itself is the .62 smoothbore as others have mentioned-but it is light and easily manueverable. I have shown it to literally hundreds of guys from hardcore units to less involved reenactors and even compared it to a few originals. It has passed many sets of eyes and been favorably received.

The lock components are very thick and have a nice tight fit to each other. There is little "slop" and wiggle as in other Indian manufacturer's products. The metal, although overpolished, was wire-wheeled with a fine wire and took an immediate patina. I added a dark mahogany stain and the wood quickly picked it up to gain a more mellow brownish-reddish hue. So, the end result was a nice pleasing color. A buyer, I was told by another reenactor, can even get these unfinished.

All in all, I have seen the early Miroku stuff, the Armi-Sport stuff and even had run-in's with the Italian stuff- this new 1854 Lorenz will hold its own and is close to the heigth of the P-1853 Enfields, so firing from the rear rank is not a problem in terms of safety.

If anyone has specific issues or questions, please feel free to write. I have seen some junk from India-no questions there-but this model, as well as a few other pieces, from Loyalist, don't seem to be that grade of weapon. I am thoroughally pleased that for the price it is a solid reenactor grade weapon.

For those who will not be satisfied with the $450 for the Lorenz, a superior weapon would be the Rifle Shoppe Lorenz at $800+. There is a level of workmanship in everything that can be attained, if you have the funds.

Next step is the live fire test.

Thanks Pards,
Jim Chochole

ACo.
10-23-2006, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=dirtyshirt]Y
"For those who will not be satisfied with the $450 for the Lorenz, a superior weapon would be the Rifle Shoppe Lorenz at $800+. There is a level of workmanship in everything that can be attained, if you have the funds."




The $800 purchase at The Rifle Shoppe will get you the unfinished and unassembled parts.