Wow, this makes it preety clear... Perryville 2012

[White Horse]

To: Kentucky Department of Parks
Danville-Boyle County Convention & Visitors’ Bureau
Perryville Enhancement Project
Kentucky Department of Tourism
Office of the Lieutenant Governor, State of Kentucky
Office of the Governor, State of Kentucky
Courier Journal Newspaper
Harold Leader Newspaper
Reenactors of Kentucky
From: Blue-Gray Alliance Command structure
Re: Concerns related to the Battle of Perryville Reenactment
Date: 22 January 2010

Distinguished Ladies and Gentlemen of Kentucky,

The multiple success of the Perryville Battlefield Preservation Association in combination with the efforts of the staff of the Perryville Battlefield Park are well known and greatly appreciated, not only in Kentucky, but across these United States. These successes have often times been directly supported by Civil War Reenactors from Kentucky and surrounding states, mostly through active participation in the annual battle reenactment held in early October of each year.

The issue at hand involves a collective concern that there appears to be a leveraging of the existing Perryville Battlefield Park for the benefit of a few selected, appearing to be tied to the open practice of nepotism and includes the intentional alienation of selected Civil War reenacting groups and individuals who have, for any number of reasons, taken positions in the reenacting hobby opposite that of the Park staff responsible for overseeing scheduled Living Histories and Civil War reenactments at the Perryville Battlefield Park.

Recently, Cleburne’s Division of the Blue-Gray Alliance was contacted and requested to serve as the Confederate Command and principle CS force for the 2012 event. As part of Cleburne’s Division’s ability to support a Regional and/or National Level event our active partnership with the Union component of the Blue-Gray Alliance, The First Federal Division is included in our assessment of ability to meet the requirements of the support event. The Perryville opportunity for 2012 fell under these criteria.

All Brigades of the FFD discussed this event and felt that given a choice, they would prefer to attend a different location. Then given the opportunity to attend a different location for the 150th, they chose to do so.

When the Perryville Reenactment coordinators where contacted concerning the organization of both the Union and Confederate forces for the 2012 event, we were advised in no uncertain terms that the Federal force would not be commanded by the 1st Federal Division’s existing command structure.


For these reasons we regret to inform you that Cleburne's Division has made the decision not to attend the 2012 Perryville reenactment. This decision was made in general assembly of the Cleburne's Division membership as well as polling of all FFD Brigade members just prior to the 150th Leadership Conference held the second weekend of January, 2010 in Chickamauga, Georgia. A representative section of both Divisions, including all Senior Commanders, was present. After discussion of the Perryville event at some length, including a detailed dialog concerning this Division’s responsibility to our Blue-Gray Alliance partners, The First Federal Division, a unanimous vote to not attend the event was made by all of those present.

We will close by saying that it is our most sincere hope that an air of cooperation between all reenacting organizations will one day exist at the Perryville Battlefield site. That spirit of cooperation in the planning and execution of reenacting events is vitally necessary to the success and continuation of our beloved hobby. Should it be within your power to review existing conditions at the Perryville Battlefield Park we would respectfully submit that your action would prove to be most warranted.

We thank you for your consideration of Cleburne's Division as the Confederate Command for Perryville 2012, but feel that our first duty is to our Blue-Gray Alliance membership and their wishes.

Respectfully,

General Joe Way
Commanding
Cleburne's Division

General Terry Crowder
Commanding
The First Federal Division

[bob 125th nysvi]

that the letter is a little obtuse as to what is actually going on.

To me it seems that the letter can be read one of two ways.

The letter could be construed to say that the FFD decided not to go to (or back as a "national" event) Perryville in 2012 because it preferred to go to one of the other 2012 events the 'Leadership' Conference picked and then the Parks administration said something to the effect of 'if they don't want us, then we don't want them'.

OR

That:

"The issue at hand involves a collective concern that there appears to be a leveraging of the existing Perryville Battlefield Park for the benefit of a few selected, appearing to be tied to the open practice of nepotism and includes the intentional alienation of selected Civil War reenacting groups and individuals who have, for any number of reasons, taken positions in the reenacting hobby opposite that of the Park staff responsible for overseeing scheduled Living Histories and Civil War reenactments at the Perryville Battlefield Park."

the few (and NOT the proud, the marines) have got it in for the FFD. Those are the ones for whom the benefit of "the open practice of nepotism" is conducted for.

So I guess my question is who manured on whom first?

No dog in the fight either way just curious and wondering if the cooperation has already started to unravel.

Although I do applaud the command at Cleburne's for hanging with their pards.

[sharps54]

SNIP

the few (and NOT the proud, the marines) have got it in for the FFD. Those are the ones for whom the benefit of "the open practice of nepotism" is conducted for.

So I guess my question is who manured on whom first?

No dog in the fight either way just curious and wondering if the cooperation has already started to unravel.

Although I do applaud the command at Cleburne's for hanging with their pards.

Well from the Perryville website: http://www.perryvillebattlefield.org/html/coming_events.html

we see

Kentucky Civil War Sesquicentennial

150th Commemoration of the Battle of Perryville

October 5-7, 2012

CS Commander TBA
US Commander Chad Greene (Western Federal Blues)

Event Information Coming Soon

Hosted by:
The Kentucky Department of Parks
The Friends of Perryville Battlefield State Historic Site

Which is interesting to those of us not involved as the WFBs seem to be OK working under the command of the FFD at Twin Rivers. In addition the WFBs are the Federal Command at Perryville this year, so there is the possibility that Perryville just wants to keep working with those it is used to working with. Mind you without a dog in the fight or any idea what I'm talking about I'm sure there is much more involved here but until those who know enlighten us this doesn't portray the FFD in the best light...

[flattop32355]

FFD's policy is that they hold overall command of the Union troops in the field at an event where they and their BGA partner will be putting the majority of the troops in the field, and to assure that all their component branches (Inf, Cav, Art) are given meaningful duties and involvement during the weekend.

It strikes me as a reasonable policy. Then, again, I'm a member of a component organization of the FFD.

The park has another overall command in mind, and insists upon that issue.

That's the main sticking point.

I would be extremely happy if a major reenactment could take place at Perryville in 2012. I consider it one of the most pristine CW battlefields remaining in the country, and feel privileged to participate upon the actual field there.

But under the present impasse, I don't see it happening.

[sharps54]

FFD's policy is that they hold overall command of the Union troops in the field at an event where they and their BGA partner will be putting the majority of the troops in the field, and to assure that all their component branches (Inf, Cav, Art) are given meaningful duties and involvement during the weekend.

It strikes me as a reasonable policy. Then, again, I'm a member of a component organization of the FFD.

The park has another overall command in mind, and insists upon that issue.

That's the main sticking point.

SNIP



So wouldn't it be mature to just say that instead of using inflammatory words like "nepotism"? What you said makes a whole lot more sense then the attack in the letter at the top of the post.

edited to add that I didn't mean it to sound like flattop32355 had anything to do with said letter at the top of the post.

[Bob Minton]

Bob-as a Battalion commander in First Federal Division I rarely post. I will simply state in response to part of your query that the spirit of cooperation amongst those at the 150th reenactor conference is not starting to unravel. I think Gen. Way pretty much accurately summed up the essence of what was discussed at said meeting. If anything, this is a step that confirms that cooperation. I think it is also a positive step that a direct communication was delivered rather than to let word spread via rumor and innuendo. I think the hobby could use more of that.

Will leave it at that.

Regards,
Bob Minton

[PaperPusher]

Cleburne's Division and First Federal Division have a strong Alliance and we are committed to hosting events where everyone is welcome. Perhaps we can return to Perryville in the future and help the Battlefield with their effots. In the 150th Cycle we will not be attending but that does not intend to take away from what the folks there will be doing.

Cleburne's will stand with First Federal Division through thick and thin. When we pledge loyalty to another organization we pledge it with all our heart.

[Colonel Dave]

For what it is worth, Chad is married to Joni House Green, the park director.

[cjdaley]

Did they really sign the letter "general", that's great. Always lends to credibility when you put your hobby title in a business letter. I know a guy who does SCA who signs his letters as an elf.

[captdougofky]

FFD's policy is that they hold overall command of the Union troops in the field at an event where they and their BGA partner will be putting the majority of the troops in the field, and to assure that all their component branches (Inf, Cav, Art) are given meaningful duties and involvement during the weekend.

It strikes me as a reasonable policy. Then, again, I'm a member of a component organization of the FFD.

The park has another overall command in mind, and insists upon that issue.

That's the main sticking point.

I would be extremely happy if a major reenactment could take place at Perryville in 2012. I consider it one of the most pristine CW battlefields remaining in the country, and feel privileged to participate upon the actual field there.

But under the present impasse, I don't see it happening.



Flattop

I agree with you, It would be nice to have a large regional or national event at Perryville but its not going to happen. It is no secret, I have been calling for a changing of the Guard at Perryville for a number of years. I live in Kentucky, went there as a Boy Scout in my youth. Kentucky is my home. I appreciate the efforts of Cleburnes Division, but under the present Perryville Leadership, I too would have voted with the FFD. I want to thank all those who attended the Leadership Conference, that was true Leadership. Something that is lacking at Perryville, Kentucky and has for some time.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Shepherdsville, Kentucky

[billwatson2]

Kind of a confusing letter, I think the order of paragraphs could be improved if, in fact, the reason for the First Federal Division's non-participation is the selection of another group for overall command. It reads like they decided to go somewhere else in the first place, meaning the rest of this sounds like unhappiness about something they shouldn't have cared about in the first place, command at an event they weren't attending.

And if you're going to say nepotism and actually mean it, the names and relationships should be spelled out if you want more people than insiders to understand it's a plausible claim. Spelling out who the commander is and the relationship to park staff, with names given and the relationship explained, makes it easier for, say, a newspaper concerned that this situation might affect a tourism-related event, or the woman's superior in the government bureaucracy, to call and ask intelligent questions based on actual facts rather than accusations.

Technically, I'm not sure it's the kind of nepotism anyone would much care about, since it's an unpaid position and a chore many reasonable people strive to avoid. An argument could be made he's not going to get anything of value from this, unless you consider a headache valuable. A better issue might be, "Why does the park want someone in command of the federals who has to toe the park line because his wife's job is there in the background?" Or do they just think he's better for the job based on some insights they might have gained through his wife's presence on park staff?

[RJSamp]

Bob Sullivan, Bill Watson, et al:

there are reasons for being obtuse, confusing, indirect, etc... it's called being political/politically correct. This is not the place for writing down personal feelings, group feelings, dirty laundry, personalities, etc.

I know you know that Bill.

Bob, you don't.

As a member of the FFD staff since the ChickADusty September 1999 under, now, 4 different 'Generals', let me assure you they/we have very good reasons.....and we know them (we are decidely NOT obtuse nor confused in our internal talk on these specific issues).

Since 1999 the FFD has only appeared at ONE event where they were not the overall Federal Command....that would have been At High Tide where Kevin Air and the Easterners were in charge.

The FFD 'voted' not to attend Perryville 2012.

Next Topic?

[captdougofky]

Bob Sullivan, Bill Watson, et al:

there are reasons for being obtuse, confusing, indirect, etc... it's called being political/politically correct. This is not the place for writing down personal feelings, group feelings, dirty laundry, personalities, etc.

I know you know that Bill.

Bob, you don't.

As a member of the FFD staff since the ChickADusty September 1999 under, now, 4 different 'Generals', let me assure you they/we have very good reasons.....and we know them (we are decidely NOT obtuse nor confused in our internal talk on these specific issues).

Since 1999 the FFD has only appeared at ONE event where they were not the overall Federal Command....that would have been At High Tide where Kevin Air and the Easterners were in charge.

The FFD 'voted' not to attend Perryville 2012.

Next Topic?


RJ

You hit the nail on the head. Manners don't cost a dime. Look forward to your Bugle at Twin Rivers.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons-Kentucky CS

[MajorK]

I can tell you that me and a lot of my friends and family are disappointed that we didn't get one of the large sesquicentennial events in Kentucky. I know that Generals Way and Crowder tried to find some kind of compromise to make it happen, but evidently that wasn't to be. I, as well as a lot of the re-enactors in Kentucky, appreciate their efforts. Let's not dwell on the negative and put more effort into making the other sesquicentennial events a success.

["Doc" Nelson]

Alright folks, I decided to re-open this thread. However, be warned, this thread will not turn into a slam fest, aimed at Joni or Chad. If you don't like them, nor have anything positive to say . . keep your mouth shut. The last thing we need is, another smart alick verbal attack. I'm sorry if your group is not "in charge" during every event. As its been said, time and time again, if you don't like the event, nor who's in charge . . don't go. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to sit here and be a keyboard commando with nothing but immature comments. Lets keep this positive. If you don't want to go to Perryville, then don't go. I'm sure there is a lot of negatives that can be said of each and every group out there. NO ONE IS PERFECT!!

All I can say about this whole entire thread . . "Reenacting Politics" at its best.

If this thread turns into a spiral, downward twist. . it will be closed down.

[indguard]

Doc, well said. This thread is proof of why this hobby is diseased. However, too bad your delicate sentiment wasn't around here when this board tried to destroy Perryville a couple of years ago! THAT time the board's admins joined the fray trying to destroy the event.

Still, it is good to see a zazbo board admin at LAST trying to keep the attacks at a minimum. Better late then never, I guess.

WTH
The GladImRetired mess

[billwatson2]

RJ, I tend to come down on the side of clarity rather than mist whenever folks seem to want me to believe something but aren't too clear about the details. It's conditioning from 38 years of journalism where, almost daily, people hint at wrongdoing but offer no details. That's because there's at best usually an isolated fact which, presented out of context, might make an accusation momentarily plausible. Usually more facts destroy the illusion of wrongdoing. In this case, with facts supporting the nepotism claim right out there, it seemed odd to me to allude to them rather than state the details.

It would seem to me that if there really is a problem over selection over federal command because it's family of the park director, actual discretion would have been to take it up with her supervisors in the Kentucky park bureaucracy. They may know about it and not care because it's not really nepotism in the classic sense of putting a relative in a sinecure. "Leadership" at an event may not have recognizable value to them as it does to many of us. They may not grasp that others know about this and do have a problem with it and that they might therefore create a problem for the park in terms of attendance, which might further create a problem of presenting an appropriate program.

Or not. Whatever. Doesn't seem like anybody anywhere has done anything legally wrong, just some stuff going on some people don't care for. And they're voting with their feet. Now that I've figured it out I'm happy and I'll shut up. All I'm doing is overanalyzing, as usual. :) I'm gonna go write a book. That should keep me busy.

[FloridaHoosier]

Got a whole new group of folks on board the moderator express here. There is a happy mix of folks with or without a vested interest in this thread with several eyeballs watching....

[captdougofky]

Alright folks, I decided to re-open this thread. However, be warned, this thread will not turn into a slam fest, aimed at Joni or Chad. If you don't like them, nor have anything positive to say . . keep your mouth shut. The last thing we need is, another smart alick verbal attack. I'm sorry if your group is not "in charge" during every event. As its been said, time and time again, if you don't like the event, nor who's in charge . . don't go. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to sit here and be a keyboard commando with nothing but immature comments. Lets keep this positive. If you don't want to go to Perryville, then don't go. I'm sure there is a lot of negatives that can be said of each and every group out there. NO ONE IS PERFECT!!

All I can say about this whole entire thread . . "Reenacting Politics" at its best.

If this thread turns into a spiral, downward twist. . it will be closed down.

Doc

Your a Mod here? Your tone of comments? I expected a kind gentle approach from a moderator. Your tone my offend some. Are you member in the WFB's? If so it may be having an effect on being objective to this issue. If so you may want to turn this subject-thread over to someone from outside the loop. Just a thought?

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons-Kentucky CS

[DeputyClerk]

Doc

Your a Mod here? Your tone of comments? I expected a kind gentle approach from a moderator. Your tone my offend some. Are you member in the WFB's? If so it may be having an effect on being objective to this issue. If so you may want to turn this subject-thread over to someone from outside the loop. Just a thought?

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons-Kentucky CS

Mr. Thomas

Doc has approached this from a moderator point of view and not as one who affiliates himself with the WFB. What he said is true and I will stand behind his comments. This thread has nothing to do with the WFB. This thread is about Perryville the event. If Doc offended you and others, what is the big deal? Some of you have beat the Perryville event to a pulp and offended others by doing so, but there is nothing wrong with that to you and others, am I correct? If you dish it, be able to take it when it comes back around is how I see it.
Also, Mr. Thomas, we know your point of view on Perryville, as you post it, what seems to be, on a weekly basis. Sounds to me either you need to find another event or move on.

DC

[Spinster]

Mr Thomas

Everybody here has their own viewpoint. As moderators, we do our best to provide an open forum and an avenue for respectful debate.

Having been at the 150th meeting and having carried messages and made well reasoned pleas for years on the central and auxiliary issues here for years, I am utterly and completely appauled that it has come to this juncture.

I'm appauled what should have been a private letter phrased and written as a public letter. I'm floored that it's being spread from here to there and back again. I'm supportive of the Park on some issues and about done on others

I'm saddened that none of y'all can agreed to disagree like MEN.

I'm also the one who said let this thing run and everyone take their knocks like men. I should have expected what the prior record shows.

The learning curve is pretty steep for a jump-up organization. Folks who try to help them get tired of looking out for them.

["Doc" Nelson]

Doc

Your a Mod here? Your tone of comments? I expected a kind gentle approach from a moderator. Your tone my offend some. Are you member in the WFB's? If so it may be having an effect on being objective to this issue. If so you may want to turn this subject-thread over to someone from outside the loop. Just a thought?

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons-Kentucky CS
OK Mr. Thomas,
First off, I am a Mod here. And, as a Mod, I have to review each and every thread/post as a "non-biased" individual . . to be fair.

Second, yes I am a member of the Blues. I can say, I am proud to call Chad and Joni my friends. I'm sorry if you're ticked off because you, or your group, offer nothing I want to experience in this hobby. The Blues are making an attempt to raise the bar with standards for Perryville and, I'm sorry if you're unhappy about that. If you don't like the standards, don't go to an event. And, if you choose not to go, keep your mouth shut about it!!

Third, if you're offended . . then my comment must have struck close to home with you? Something you need to change?

Fourth, unlike certain folks here in Kentucky, I do not want to see any of our events suffer just because I'm not in charge. Frankly, I'm tired of the Yahoo groups out there that bring nothing but disgrace to this hobby because all the want to do is, be in charge. Every one of them should be booted out, period!

Fifth, I've been in this hobby too darn long to care about politics. And that's what this comes down to, nothing else. This whole entire thread is a sloppy excuse to beat around the bush.

[Spinster]

Oh and since I intend to spend my weekend actually learning something about the common life of a 19th century farmer and picking up a pretty unique skill related to that,

And sleeping in a bedroll

Without a tent

With the animals

In the rain/snow

And eating fresh pork

Here's the Lock.