Where to get a sword...

[MMurphy]

Here's hoping y'all can help.

I need an infantry officers sword, (not a cavalry saber, etc...), and unfortunately I am clueless about them. I'd like it to be high quality, (not the paki-stuff) that one can find easily.

Can someone point me to a good dealer?

Thanks...

[captdougofky]

Here's hoping y'all can help.

I need an infantry officers sword, (not a cavalry saber, etc...), and unfortunately I am clueless about them. I'd like it to be high quality, (not the paki-stuff) that one can find easily.

Can someone point me to a good dealer?

Thanks...



Ebay-they have originals, if money is no object. I think most new swords you buy are import.

Doug Thomas
Lyons-Kentucky CS

[Blair]

Michael,

You might check with these folks,

http://winchestersutler.com/sword.html

They offer a variety form well made to not so well made, CS or US with all metal scabbards or leather. It just depends on what you want and have available to spend.

[CapitolGuards]

Here's hoping y'all can help.

I need an infantry officers sword, (not a cavalry saber, etc...), and unfortunately I am clueless about them. I'd like it to be high quality, (not the paki-stuff) that one can find easily.

Can someone point me to a good dealer?


Mike:

Do some research. Look at as many contemporary images as you can find of officers from the regiment (or state) that you intend to portray, and look for trends and commonalities. For example, when I put my kit together several years ago, I looked for as many photos of Trans-MS officers as I could find. Based on a survey of some thirty images, between 1861-1863, some trends started to stand out. For example, the Arkansans tended to use M1850 pattern foot officers' swords, with the rectangular eagle buckles with the silver inlay. So... this being my primary interest, that's what I got. The Mississippi and Texas officers in the survey tended to use the round, 2-piece buckles with a five-pointed star. Louisiana officers appeared to favor a round 2-piece buckle with the pelican on it.

If your fellow served as an officer in the antebellum Army, it's likely he would carry his foot officer's sword with him into Federal (or Confederate) service. If a militia officer, likewise.

Otherwise, he would likely have purchased his sword from a cutler or one of the vendors serving the officer trade, and here is where the variants of the foot officer's sword and other swordmakers such as Boyle & Gamble, Dufilho, and others come into play.

Or... the sword could have been presented by the officer's friends and family, or by the members of his unit. A sword was the most common item presented to an officer as a token of esteem or recognition. Swords were required by regulation, and the officer had to purchase it along with all the other gear he needed for service in garrison and in the field. A typical cost quoted for a foot officer’s sword, sash, and belt in the summer of 1861 was $40. Captain Thomas Stevens of the 28th Wisconsin recorded some typical figures. He placed the price of pants at between $15 and $18; “fancy, white, or buff” vests at $5 to $8; shoulder straps were $8; a dress coat for $35; and sword, belt, sash, and sword knot were $57. The pay for a second lieutenant was about $45 per month, so he needed all the help he could get while preparing to leave for the war. This in turn offered his family and friends a practical way of demonstrating their patriotism (by presenting him with a sword) while also helping their loved one.

Based on your research, get a nice sword belt of a pattern common to the type of officer you represent, as this is one of your most important accoutrements. Officers rarely, if ever, used enlisted cavalry sabre belts -- so don't buy one – get a custom officer's pattern belt made, or purchase one from a quality vendor. The U.S. Army M1851 pattern sword belt, mentioned above, is a good choice. Scour the antique markets for a pair of proper brass snap swivels.

As for the sword, the M1850 foot pattern is widely seen in a number of variations. Originals are very nice of course, but are becoming very expen$ive, as well as having that 140-year-old look to them. Nearly all of the reproduction swords offered today are made in India, probably by the same shop somewhere in Delhi. Quality does vary between individual examples though, so shop around a good bit and buy the best quality (construction, engraving, etc. that you can for the best price that you can find. EBay sometimes has good deals on M1850 foot officer swords (look for a vendor operating there under the handle "bigmick45" and who seems to have a bit better than run of the mill stuff), but as with everything in that market, caveat emptor. Don't get a sword with one of those big hex nuts sticking out from the end of the grip. Engraving or no engraving is likewise a personal choice, based on the particular officer's taste and finances.

Lieutenants and captains typically carried the foot officer pattern with a leather scabbard; the advantage here being that the leather scabbard isn't as likely to trip you up when it invariably finds its way between your legs when the battalion goes to the double-quick. Field officers (majors and above) were supposed to have the Staff and Field Officer pattern, which comes with a steel or metal scabbard, since these fellows were supposed to be mounted. However as officers were promoted up through the ranks, he may not have the opportunity or inclination to trade his old foot sword for the fancier field & staff pattern.

Hope this helps...

[LibertyHallVols]

If you'd rather not get an original...

1) There are no good reproduction swords out there.
2) Some reproductions are "less bad" than others. I opted for the following for my CS impression, in particular:

http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords2.htm
Pattern 1821/1822 Light Cavalry Trooper's Sabre
http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/1822_2.jpg

However, their Model 1822/1845 Infantry Officer's Sword would also be a good choice.
http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/1845%20infantry%20sword%201.JPG

Enjoy!

[Bill_Cross]

This feller has some very good reproductions that aren't marked up with "Made in Pakistan." I purchased this particular one (Horstmann 1850 Food Officer's sword @ $185) for my son, and it's quite good IMO:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HORSTMANN-1850-US-CIVIL-WAR-FOOT-OFFICER-SWORD_W0QQitemZ230420256635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item35a61e177b

A non-specific original is actually not THAT much more expensive. I purchased a non-descript French import from this feller for around $300 9 years ago:

http://shop.ebay.com/pcay/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=50

Send him a message and ask if he has anything at a fixed price. The CW stuff he's auctioning right now is pretty expensive, but he's quite reasonable in my experience. There are swords out there that likely were used during the period, and may have been brought here after the war. But since most swords used by the two armies came from abroad, that doesn't eliminate their use. The USA/CSA simply didn't have enough domestic armorers to handle the demand for equipment. The German imports are the most-famous, but French ones were also popular. Mine has no makers marks or other indication of its exact provenance, but looks like an 1850 Foot Officer's Sword but in a nickel-plated scabbard and it is as straight as a poker.

The differences between the repros and the originals tend to be:

1.) weight (the repros are heavier)
2.) tensile strength (the repros are more brittle)
3.) brasswork (inferior or brass plate vs. well-crafted solid brass)
4.) execution (the repros may or may not be accurate)
5.) the repros decline in value over time while originals maintain or even increase in value

[RJSamp]

The differences between the repros and the originals tend to be:

1.) weight (the repros are heavier)
2.) tensile strength (the repros are more brittle)
3.) brasswork (inferior or brass plate vs. well-crafted solid brass)
4.) execution (the repros may or may not be accurate)
5.) the repros decline in value over time while originals maintain or even increase in value

Sharkskin grip
Fenceability or the heft and balance

[Bill_Cross]

Sharkskin grip
Fenceability or the heft and balance
You can get a replication of the sharkskin grip easy enough. In fact, most original swords I've seen at prices non-Donald Trumps can afford have lost their original wrapping, including the gold wiring.

Fenceability? Do you mean fencing, as in pretend combat, or fencing like we do with stolen goods here in New Jersey, LOL? ;)

Fuhgeddabout it.