USCT Question

[bsbaker]

I'm not trying to upset anyone and I'm not "flame baiting". I have a serious question.

I've never come into contact with any units organized as USCT, so I'm completely ignorant on the subject. Do the Colored Troops reenactors take the field with white officers? It seems that they would to be historically correct, but at the same time it seems like this might cause some turmoil.

If anyone on here is a member of a USCT unit or has any information, please educate me.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Yes, most USCT units that I've seen do indeed take the field with white officers. I only know of one such unit, in the south, that didn't care for that practice and only went on the field with their own elected NCO's, but they only had about 10 soldiers, so it was nice to see another rank-heavy company. Like all other units, USCT companies are around the US, some are larger, some are smaller, some have politics, some don't. Some are progressive and many are mainstream. I hope that a few on this forum who are in those units will pipe in firsthand, but my experience with them, particularly at Olustee, has been enlightening.

[Artyman]

Mr Baker,

It has been my observations that African Americans who do USCT's have a very HIGH sense of their place in history. They are less casual about their need to be historically accurate and accept the reality that this is how it was, what they had to bear, and part of their unique heritage. How odd it seems to me that it is us white folk who feel bad about it more so than they do.

Harry

[bob 125th nysvi]

units I have seen all are too small for an officer and take the field under an NCO.

Unfortunately I have never seen enough of them in place to form even a decent sized company (which is about the point they'd need an officer).

Conversely I don't see the interest someone would have in joining a unit to just be their officer. That individual could never 'step down' to fight in the ranks because he'd look so out of place.

It is a really tough situation for USCT groups because even when a larger overhead group wants to integrate them into the organization you can't take the field without some idiot arguing it isn't historical.

I do have to say the couple of units I've seen seem to be of pretty high quality and know their history pretty well.

[Regular3]

There is a recreated 54th Massachusetts here in the DC area that had a white officer when they first organized in the late 80s, and they appeard together in "Glory." He has since left the unit, if not out of the hobby altogether, and they currently list their CO slot as "vacant," only taking the field with a first sergeant.

[indguard]

There is one here in Northern Illinois. Good group of men and they do have a white officer. At least there was one. I didn't do any events last year, so I am not sure that they are still around, but they were as of the 2008 season.

WTH
The SoITookABreakLastYear mess

[Andrew Jarvi]

I served as the captain of the 5th US Colored Infantry here in Ohio up until a few years ago. Pretty much all of the guys I worked with (from Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Jersey, DC and Georgia) have no issue with having a white officer because the realize it's part of the history. I guess it boils down to personality too, because I know at some events when they don't have their own, they get someone forced on to them which can potentially be disastrous. In fact I had an issue with a young captain from another group that was very rude and disrespectful towards that guys, to put it plainly a punk. I had a few words with the lad and that was it.

Great bunch of guys, the only reason I didn't stick with it is because I injured my knee and got bogged down with pursuing my career.

I am actually trying to build support for a youth group here in Central Ohio similar to Rob Goldman's group in Rhode Island so that by the time the 150th events role around where USCT would be involved I would have a decent sized company together. Tried in the Cleveland area but I was just too busy with work and college so it just didn't pan out.

[Bill_Cross]

I tried to get an event held on New Market Heights on the James a few years ago, but the Superintendent didn't want any events until the commemorative marker was dedicated, and that still hasn't happened to my knowledge. Anyway....

I corresponded with a bunch of fellers from different USCT units and they were very professional and history-heavy from what I could tell in our brief discussions about having the Federals march to the position, dislodge the CS, who would then march down to a nearby park. The next day a ceremony would be held for the public honoring both sides who fought.

One of my big regrets is not being able to pull that event off. We don't see enough USCT units represented in the hobby, especially on the campaigner side.

[ScottWashburn]

At the 135th Spring Hill/Franklin event I had two companies of USCTs attached to my battalion. They had white officers and were fine troops.

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

I have seen photo's (I don't know where to get them now) of at least one USCT group that had colored officers. Not NCO's but officers.

I agree that we do not see enough representation of these groups at events on the mainstream side let alone the C/P/H side.

[hanktrent]

I have seen photo's (I don't know where to get them now) of at least one USCT group that had colored officers. Not NCO's but officers.

Can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but here's a list of black commissioned officers in the Civil War.

http://home.usmo.com/~momollus/USCT.HTM

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Andrew Jarvi]

Here is a nice piece from an article about the Battle of New Market Heights.

Butler tried to promote Sergeant Milton M. Holland of the 5th USCT to captain, but the War Department refused to issue the commission.

With avenues of promotion shut down, that left the Medal of Honor. The award had not yet acquired the lofty status it holds today, and the criteria necessary for recognition were very different from modern standards. During the Civil War, 1,520 men and one woman received the Medal of Honor, but only 16 black soldiers and five black sailors earned the award.

Here is just a little information on Milton Holland:

Medal of honor Recipient Milton M. Holland was born in 1844 in either Carthage or Austin, Texas. He was the son of Bird Holland (who later became Texas Secretary of State before the Civil War) and possibly a slave owned by Spearman "Major" Holland, Bird Holland's half brother. Sometime in the 1850s, Bird Holland purchased the freedom of his three sons Milton, William, and Kemp, and sent them to school in Ohio.

His father, Bird Holland, died at the Battle of Mansfield, Louisiana, in 1864, while serving as a Major in the Confederate Army.

Milton Holland is an interesting person to study. I would attach an image I have of him but the dimensions don't agree with the attachment manager so here is the link of the NPS site with his image (scroll down a bit).

[bsbaker]

I would attach an image I have of him but the dimensions don't agree with the attachment manager so here is the link of the NPS site with his image (scroll down a bit).

Link didn't post.

[Andrew Jarvi]

Oops, long day yesterday. http://www.nps.gov/rich/historyculture/holland.htm

[Pete K]

One example of an African-American US Army commisssioned officer: Major of Infantry during US Civil War. Pre war career: Journalist, physician,educator. Post war ran for Lt. Governor of South Carolina (1870's nearly won!) and was appointed to a judgeship in Charleston, SC by Gov. Wade Hampton in the 1870's. A very good museum exhibit to the gentleman is in Soldiers and Sailors Hall in Pittsburgh.

[ChrisOwens]

Did a google search on "USCT Reenactors" and found a ton of links.

I heard about a program that was designed for African-American high school seniors and college students. Can't remember the name are where it was at. But, basically the young men would take a "class" about USCT's and would drill in uniform and attend an event or two. Seems like they posted a pic over on the AC several years ago. Very neat idea. Great education tool.

Would be an impressive site to see a battalion of 18-20's African-American men in blue.

[crazyyankee]

Did a google search on "USCT Reenactors" and found a ton of links.

I heard about a program that was designed for African-American high school seniors and college students. Can't remember the name are where it was at. But, basically the young men would take a "class" about USCT's and would drill in uniform and attend an event or two. Seems like they posted a pic over on the AC several years ago. Very neat idea. Great education tool.

Would be an impressive site to see a battalion of 18-20's African-American men in blue.

That I think would be the 6th USCT or the 3rd USCT.
I believe it is Fred Major? and his group. They "cadre" for lack of a better word are a great group of folks. They bring youngster out to the field and the kids get to see what CW live as a soldier was like. Some return year after year and become "cadre", some are only there a season or 2.

It has been a while since I've seen them, but they have always been a great group to "fight" with.

[Rob Weaver]

Drew Jarvi led a great little USCT unit when he lived in Ohio. They were the largest uniformed body of USCT I have ever seen on the reenactment field. I have tried valiantly to recruit a company, but have encountered the truth that there is little interest in the Civil War in the African-American community. (We can quibble about how I said that, and it is a generalization, but it holds true in the main.) There are a number of USCT groups who do living histories, but almost exclusively with each other rather than with the mainstream of reenacting (let alone the a/h/c/p/h movement). Dr King famously said that Sunday at 11am is the most segregated hour in America; perhaps reenacting US history may be the most segregated pastime.

[Andrew Jarvi]

Not to worry Rob I still live in Ohio, just down in Columbus due to a career move. Yes unfortunately Co. G out of Cleveland has faded but Jim Proctor and crew still exist over by Toledo. Once grad school is done and over with I intend to attempt to start a youth program here in the Columbus area, however I am already working to build a support base before I start such an endeavor because of the burn out I suffered trying it with minimal support in NE Ohio. Right now I just enjoy bouncing between a private and NCO as needed.

[Andrew Jarvi]

Mike,

The gentleman you speak of is Fred Minus, heck of a good fella. When we would work together he would at times serve as my first or second sergeant. The 3rd and the 6th work together frequently as well as the 14th Rhode Island Heavy Artillery headed up by Rob Goldman (another youth program). There is also the 1st USCT (youth program) in DC.

[crazyyankee]

Mike,

The gentleman you speak of is Fred Minus, heck of a good fella. When we would work together he would at times serve as my first or second sergeant. The 3rd and the 6th work together frequently as well as the 14th Rhode Island Heavy Artillery headed up by Rob Goldman (another youth program). There is also the 1st USCT (youth program) in DC.

Yup, That would be correct, it is Fred Minus along with Art and the other.
Thanks for the correction