Do we take it too seriously?

[kgwolfe1]

I have only been a member of this site for a relatively short time but have been a lurker in the woods for quite some time now and I have one question, do we as reenactors take ourselves too seriously sometimes? I mean all the talk about FARBY's and campaigners. Can we truly experience what they went through during the war. I was in the Army for 6 years and I know roughing it was completely different now then in the 1860's.

Campaigners seem to want to "live" the way they did but in the end they will only be campaigning for 2-3 days then it's back to the lazy boy and the History channel. They will never experience the joy of having clothing rot off thier bodies while they march, the joys off defecating on themselves because they have "the trots". The endless tedium of camp life or the true terror of combat. Face we are all Farby, some worse than others but Farby nonetheless.

I'm not down playing or ridiculing anyones impression, **** I applaude and respect anyone who spends thier hard earned money and time to bring history alive and put it before the public. I just think some individuals are really disrespecting the sacrifices that were made by our ancestors by thinking they are better portrayers than others. After all in the end we are just a bunch of amatuer actors.

[hanktrent]

After all in the end we are just a bunch of amatuer actors.

Sigh.

It's not news that reenactors can't actually experience the real 1860s. It's not news that most people really wouldn't want to.

The difference is what comes after that realization.

Conclusion #1: We can never really experience the 1860s, so whatever we do, we'll always be inaccurate. Might as well not worry about trying so hard, since we'll always fail.

Conclusion #2: We can never really experience the 1860s, but if we try to get closer, we can gain more appreciation, insight, knowledge--whatever we're looking for. Even if we can't be perfect, we can still improve by trying.

Some reenactors lean toward #1, some toward #2. Totally different attitudes, equally valid, but they're often mutually exclusive if attempted at the same time and place.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[PMB1861]

I'm piling on, sorry...

I'm with Hank and Conclusion #2. The attempt and what's learned from it is the jewel myself and many others are grasping for.

I've come to a point where I abhorr the "We're all Farbs because we can't do XXXXXX" attitude. All that is is a poor excuse to accept mediocrity and give in to immediate comfort or lower standards.

It is correct in the grand majority of cases 93% of events last a weekend and then the magic is over due to our real lives we lead outside of 19th century clothing. There are a few events out there that aim to achieve something more. In the past 18 months you had Winter of '64, Sparks of Secession and Into the the Piney Woods as examples of that. In the next year there will be In The Van and Struggles of Secession for those with the time and energy for the challenge. However those events would never happen if dozens of other great 2-3 day immersive events didn't occur across this country for individuals to accept the spark and start the fire that smoulders in a living historian's heart.

Sorry for getting up on the soap box. I know there are different hobbies out there. I like the one I'm in and the great people (like Hank) I've met along that journey that has no end, but many rewards.

[Spinster]

They will never experience the joy of having clothing rot off thier bodies while they march, the joys off defecating on themselves because they have "the trots".
.

Actually it does happen. Even a week long event will do a real number on clothing, as anyone who has looked into my mending basket can attest.

And while I never managed to reanchor a seat in the nasty things after we got them clean, The Unfortunate Drawers that came to my basket during the Winter of 64 provided a unique testimony as well.

My hands work on the rub board. My needle goes in and out. My fingers ache in the cold and I put a small stick of wood in the ashy stove. I remember the countless women who stood in this place. I look at my washing machine and my sewing machine and my gas furnace and I am grateful for what they did

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

"I just think some individuals are really disrespecting the sacrifices that were made by our ancestors by thinking they are better portrayers than others."

IMHO and heresies...

Herr Hank has well summed "it" up.

On the Sliding Scale of Imperfection of what works for us and our pards on the Sliding Scale of Imperection...

IMHO still...

"...disrespecting the sacrifices that were made by our ancestors by thinking they are better portrayers than others." When it comes to history, and the Mental Picture choice to strive to be "more like" the life and times of those ancestors- it could be argued that the more theatrical, farcical, yahoo, wahoo, and historically "incorrect" we are in terms of understanding, appreciating, and simulating and emulating the material culture, thinking, beliefs, (some) of shared similar experiences, etc., the more "disrespectful" we actually are?

But then, on the Sliding Scale of Imperfection, we rightfully choose to be in different hobbies together, based upon What Works For Us.

And...

Others' mileage will vary...

CHS
Heretic

[Pvt Schnapps]

If reenacting wasn't all one hobby none of us would be embarassed or frightened by the other participants. ;)

That said, whether we take it too seriously or not seems mostly a matter of perception. We all want to take firearms safety very seriously, I hope. I would hope we would take field craft seriously, too, but that seems to get less attention.

People who know more than I do about something always seem to me to take that something too seriously. But then I learn a little more and they don't seem quite so much like nazis.

My thing is period bureaucracy; I guess you could call me a nib-nazi, but I try not to let it show. Too much.

I agree that we should never confuse our own challenges at a reenactment with what people actually went through at the time. Some of the rhetoric on the authenticist side can take on an unseemly air of self-congratulation from time to time -- an air that overlooks the fact that surviving a weekend, or even a week, is a pretty small thing compared to a campaign.

But I think the offenders on that score tend to be the more recent converts or those who live in areas where they're vastly outnumbered by the "camping with a civil war theme" crowd. So you can't really blame them -- or I can't, anyway.

We're all still working through the problem of proper online communications etiquette, but FWIW, I think we're getting better and, in time, the appearance of factionalism will fade away. IMHO, all of us in the hobby -- young and old, fat and thin, jeancloth and workboots, &c. &c. -- have more in common with each other than with those who can't go a weekend without AC and a heavy dose of consumer electronics.

[Spinster]

Hanks also right about the 'often mutually exclusive' thing.

Some events I go to have us rely on gathered deadfall hacked up with a hatchet for firewood. Others have great piles of chainsawed wood of varying quality and greeness. Either way, I choose to think of firewood in an 1860 manner-as a scarce resource, one that I must use carefully, one that is nearly beyound my strength to replenish, and the men of my household are gone.

Fires are carefully considered, carefully made, carefully banked. Sometimes I'm cold. And that's my choice in staying in the moment inside my head.

It gets pretty funny though if the folks one tent over are trying to emulate the fires of Hades by piling and burning a cord at a time. I can get a sunburn from the backwash. :rolleyes:

[flattop32355]

Yep, we all fall far short of the originals. The closest any can come, IMHO, is the real modern military doing a similar job over an extended period of time.

We can't duplicalte either, and really don't want to have to.

For me, the proverbial "line in the sand" is how one deals with the above revelation: One can try to do a better effort to get the better taste of "reality" possible, maybe only a piece at a time, or one can chuck it all and turn it into grand time of powder burning, partying, etc.

The former shows some effort to attempt things in the spirit of the history. The latter does not. Granted, there's a wide expanse between the extremes, but I'd rather work towards the one end of the spectrum than the other.

As for the disrespect issue between reenacting styles, I'm more concerned about not showing disrespect to the originals in how I go about my impression. Mr. Lincoln summed up our inability to add to their memory by what we do. However, the back of my mind keeps telling me, rightly or wrongly, that there are ways we can detract from them by certain behaviors. I'm not willing to do that, for this particular period or any other.

As a modern analogy: I bowl. I enjoy it. When I bowl, I like to see how well I can do. I'm trying to achieve the best scores I can while enjoying the actual experience of bowling. (As in reenacting, sometimes I succeed, sometimes I'm deficient.)

Some people go bowling to mess around, drink beer, eat pizza and be loud; the actual bowling is secondary to the "good time" they are having. I intensely dislike being on a lane next to or near those who are partying under the guise of bowling, particularly when they ignore lane etiquette; just rambling up, grabbing a ball and throwing it regardless of who is next to them ready to make their approach.

The same holds true to a degree for reenacting. While I don't hold anyone to my standard of impression, I do have my limits on what I consider reasonable behavior in camps and the field. I'd guess that holds true for most anyone who considers him/her self a progressive minded reenactor.

[LibertyHallVols]

I hear you. For me, its like this:
I take the hobby seriously. Myself... not so much.

As good as my clothing, gear, drill, or first person might be or become, it really isn't a noteworthy accomplishment when compared to:
1) The "Old Fellows".
2) Veterans of more recent conflicts.
3) New insights and discoveries by REAL historians.
4) ... lots of other stuff...

I think, as Curt has rightly explained in numerous posts, its is all about expectations. Having realistic expectations going into a given event and having expectations met (or not). If an event is advertised as an authentic event, it needs to have upheld standards. However, it makes no sense to go to the circus, then complain because you saw clowns.

[Blair]

The really bad part is when the Clowns complain.
Both the funny Clowns, and the Clowns that aren't so funny, because they couldn't make everyone happy.

[Mint Julep]

I have only been a member of this site for a relatively short time but have been a lurker in the woods for quite some time now and I have one question, do we as reenactors take ourselves too seriously sometimes? I mean all the talk about FARBY's and campaigners. Can we truly experience what they went through during the war. I was in the Army for 6 years and I know roughing it was completely different now then in the 1860's.

Campaigners seem to want to "live" the way they did but in the end they will only be campaigning for 2-3 days then it's back to the lazy boy and the History channel. They will never experience the joy of having clothing rot off thier bodies while they march, the joys off defecating on themselves because they have "the trots". The endless tedium of camp life or the true terror of combat. Face we are all Farby, some worse than others but Farby nonetheless.

I'm not down playing or ridiculing anyones impression, **** I applaude and respect anyone who spends thier hard earned money and time to bring history alive and put it before the public. I just think some individuals are really disrespecting the sacrifices that were made by our ancestors by thinking they are better portrayers than others. After all in the end we are just a bunch of amatuer actors.

Several thoughts come to mind reading your post:

You misunderstand. References to farbs and campaigners are only labels so that one can understand implied differences. If you saw a parking lot full of automobiles and wanted to find a specific one, you would describe it, i.e., a red pick up truck versus a white Cadillac. They are just labels for a point of reference.

You don't understand the differing goals of each group. One is usually a family-friendly situation, looking to bring the comforts of home to the event and more concerned about convenience that authenticity. The other is trying to recreate as closely as possible the situation so that they may better appreciate the sacrifices made.

I fall into the category: If something is worth doing it is worth doing well. I spent years in the mainstream, but only because there was no alternative at the time. Once better events began to manifest themselves and become a regular occurrence, I had a new outlet and could progress, learn, expand, and grow my enjoyment of this hobby. I could never live as they did, I'm too soft. But I can stand it for a week or so at a time. I prefer events that last longer than a weekend and I prefer events that are not geared towards the spectators, if there are any. Reenacting is my hobby. It is what I do. I don't do it to educate the public or honor my ancestors. I do it for me and because I enjoy it. Heresy, I know, but true.

I can't say that I've encountered anyone that expressed the idea that they were reenacting a scenario better than the original participants actually played it out. I'd have to say that is an ego unchecked. I do know that many reenactors do not know the history of what they are portraying and therefore tend to "re-write" history through mistakes in their actions. That occurs when the participant's focus isn't on recreating history. It might be on being as kewl as they can be, having the best gear and clothes or it might be because they were too busy loading the trailer, cooler and wall tent to read up on the history of the event.

I take my hobby seriously, just as any hobbyist does. Don't golfers take their game seriously, always seeking to improve and wanting to play new courses? Don't fishermen take their hobby seriously, always getting new fishing gear and hoping the land the big one? I bet scrapbookers even take that hobby seriously. If I wasn't interested enough to take it seriously, why would I bother reading and sewing and discussing and travelling and sleeping on the ground or getting soaking wet?

I think you misunderstand.

[huntdaw]

Reenacting is my hobby. It is what I do. I don't do it to educate the public or honor my ancestors. I do it for me and because I enjoy it. Heresy, I know, but true.

Bingo! I think that really applies to many, many of us but we don't want to admit it because we're afraid people will think we are wrong in that. I do this hobby because I learn things that I feel are valuable to me. I enjoy the time I spend doing this. Now, that gets passed down to others in different ways but I don't take the field to educate the public. I do that for a living. I run historic sites, I oversee the interpretation of those places, I teach college history, I consult with museums on occassion - I'm educating people in those venues. I don't reenact for that. If others want to do the interpretation at an event or talk to the public I let them - I generally don't. I'm there to escape - it is my "me" time.

I don't reenact to honor the soldiers that went before me. I reenact to understand them better which might be honoring but I do other things to honor them. I study about them, I visit the places they were, I respect what they did, I work to preserve the places they fought and died. But, when I'm tromping through the hills of northern Louisiana, I may be thinking of those long gone men at times, but I'm ultimately there for me.

So, since I am doing it for me, I want it to be quality and I go by the adage 'you only get out of life what you put into it' or an event is what you make of it. If others think that is taken myself too seriously then so be it.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Interesting -- so far all the respondents (even me) have more or less owned up to taking the hobby seriously. I'm left wondering what people consider TOO serious.

I also wonder whether anyone who doesn't take it seriously wants to chime in. Or maybe they think they'll be eaten by those of us who do -- could that be the point at which seriously becomes "too" seriously?

[Mint Julep]

Well, I think everyone takes the hobby seriously, whether their hobby involves catching lice from their blanket mates or getting smashed from the beer cooler on Saturday night.

I think the poster is taking the position that those who set a higher standard for their hobby and have higher goals to achieve has become too serious, which is a funny complaint to me because most of the high goal types complain that those with lower standards and goals aren't taking the hobby seriously enough. Perhaps it is a subtle acknowledgement that perceptions are reality?

[Greg Deese]

I just think some individuals are really disrespecting the sacrifices that were made by our ancestors by thinking they are better portrayers than others. After all in the end we are just a bunch of amatuer actors.

You have just joined that exclusive set known as Why Even Try or "WET", a Farb doesn't know enough yet, but still tries at some level, your philosophy would push us in the direction of the SCA or SCi-Fi Geeks. So a WET is the worst form of reenactor. BTW most good authentic guys would say they are a farb on something, we just don't take it personally.

As to disrespecting the sacrifice, it would be to just give up trying. If it wasn't for reenactors of all stripes, there would fewer monuments, rescued relics, preserved battlefields and museums. Children and history tourists would never see a cannon fire or a Confederate-Union impression or any living history. There would be fewer volunteers and research done. Your quote is not thought out, and it really insults the entire galaxy of reenactors.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

"Life Law #6: There is no reality, only perception."

Dr. Phil.

On the Sliding Scale of Imperfection, we are, or are trying to extract a value judgment.
Meaning, "we" seem to NUG say that a history-heavy and material culture-heavy, "authentic" uniform, gear, and activities SOMEHOW "honors" the memory, service, and sacrifice of our ancestors. Poor Costumes, and Reenacting Culture not so much or not at all.
Or that those ancestors can be "honored" in other ways and forms that have
NOTHING whatsoever to do with wearing painstaking-to-detail recreations of clothing and gear while experiencing as many aspects of 1861-1865 "life" that is doable or desireable.

And, as a result, the value judgment many lads and lassies make is that the wearing of a costume of any quality or non-quality and the experiencing of anything from an immersion guard mount to stanidng in line for a sarsparilla or root beer or corn dog or funnel cake at the sutler's row of a mainstream event are, in the end, nothing to do with honoring ancestors.

On my own journey. I have been there and back.
But then, I do what I do for me. Yeah, I am now "serious." Yahoo Serious.
After having done other Mental Pictures over the years. I now strive for the Time Machine Model and the Time Warp of emulation not simulation.
It does not, IMHO, make me better or worse than the next lad doing something better than me, or worse than me. It just makes me, me. And a heretic.
And whatever I did, or do, or will do, I honor my CW ancestors and those of others, in other ways having nothing to do with the quality of my uniform, gear, and activities.

But then I interpret my (and others') CW ancestors' hisotry, and lives and times.
I don't try to the do the impossible and relive what is gone.

Serious? Yeah, and ruthlessly and lethally "serious" when it comes to me. What "you" do is your choice of Mental Pictures. It has nothing to do with my CW ancestors (the 25 plus I know about).

Others' mileage will vary...

CHS

[Pvt Schnapps]

So, Mr. Wolfe, I think the answers to your question are running about 15-0 in favor of "yes," but I suspect the data base of self-selection bias... :)

[kgwolfe1]

I just want to thank everyone who responded to my post in a positive way. I was truly concerned it would degenerate into an argument and I just wanted to get some constructive conversation on the subject. I can come clean and say that to some might camp site may be considered Farby but I try to get my personal impression as correct as my wallet will allow right now. I appreciate all your thoughts and I will file them away and i can only hope they help me to better understand some of the different attitudes that are involved in our hobby. Thank you all again.

[Drygoods]

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is why people participate in this hobby. Sure, you have those who participate because they want a real history experience, you have those who want to give back to their community and have a little interest in history, and then you have those who for whatever reason are simply there for the social aspects, being with people who are just friends.

I attend events that fall into all three categories. I LOVE the hardcore history events, the ones that keep you on your toes mentally and are a true challenge to your history knowledge, the ones where you find the most entertaining conversation, Meanwhile, I also enjoy doing those events where I teach history to children, and then I have those long established events that push very little history but I'm mostly there for the company of old friends and a little vending.

Theme camping is pretty dull, but because some folks have no interest in history is that a reason to bash them? No, just accept that some folks will never get that same feeling that a few find doing everything historically accurate. Simply participate at the events that you choose, and don't worry about anyone else, do what works for you, yet at the same time try to understand what drives that other person to leave home and participate. And unless you've done all three parts of these different styles of events, try not to judge.

As to some of the other comments, I agree with with Mr. Trent.....and yes if you're going to do something, try and do it well, you get out of life what you put into it, so let those put in their own share and only worry about yourself.....learn to lead by example, .....and yes I do take my hobby seriously, but certainly not myself.....you have to learn to laugh at yourself too....last none of us are ever going to know everything, so accept that if you want to continue improving, then learn to like books, especially the original ones that our ancestors read. It helps to read the same as they did as it gives you a better understanding of how they got their opinions and ideas, far better than the modern author who says that they have to explain "their feelings" of why things happened....most important, if you don't enjoy this hobby than don't do it. Belt up and don't complain, and accept that as the saying goes, different strokes for different folks and let it go at that.;)

[Linda Trent]

Do we take it too seriously?
I dunno, it depends on what the meaning of "too," is. :lol:

Seriously though, I think that Judith hit the nail on the head with this statement. "One thing that no one has mentioned yet is why people participate in this hobby."

Personally, I attend events looking for more than just a magic moment -- I look for the magic weekend. :p Probably one of the best events I ever attended was War on the James (and I'm speaking as a civilian). We had a great background right out of the ORs. A group of homeguard who took to the woods when the US army came through. As wives, and 13 year old, we were to take blankets and provisions to our men who had to be out longer than they had expected. Our goal was to remain as hidden as possible for the entire weekend.

What was really cool about that event was I was caretaker of a friend's 13 year old daughter (who became my daughter for the weekend), and we all had some really cool interactions all in first person. I was a widow engaged to be married to Hank's character. We covered all sorts of topics including slavery (we were slave owners), why we're in the midst of a Civil War, and lots of other really good topics that really make one think. What was cool was, I wasn't thinking "Oh yeah, I read in..." I was just answering based on what I had read, and what came immediately to my mind. Looking back, it was one of the most rewarding moments in my life because we were all taking what we were doing seriously, and we were all learning what it was like to be a parent in those times, and having an inquisitive teenager.:confused:

Early Saturday when trying to obtain some water for some rice, I saw the armies approaching. Caught in the middle I had to think on my feet, and decided not to give my family's whereabouts away, so I headed down the road away from them. More troops began moving in my direction, so I headed for some thick brush. I got into the brush and tripped in the undergrowth and fell face-down in the weeds and soil. I laid motionless while the armies manuevered around me. I kept hoping that they wouldn't move into the brush and step on me (they never did). Finally when I saw the CS I rose up and they hurriedly had me moved to the rear. About then they were routed, and I was on my own. I tried to make it back to my own camp, but saw I was going to be cut off no matter how hard I tried, and finally got caught.

After getting captured I discovered that my whole family had been found and detained, and that the men were being questioned by the Yankees. What is really cool about these kind of events is that our group of civilians were playing for keeps. In other words, if we're wounded we're wounded for the remainder of the event, if we're captured, we're captured for the remainder of the event, and if we're killed, we're dead for the remainder of the event, etc. When all was said and done, one fellow with us was never caught, one was discovered to be a C.S. lieutenant home on furlough and was to remain a captive, another was suspected to be a spy (he wasn't but...), and Hank was returned to us. We went back to our camp, where we held out for the remainder of the day. Our camp took on a more somber tone as we discussed what would happen to our Lieutenant and "my father. When we got back to camp we found a neighbor had shown up (the guy who was the lieutenant had brought a complete change of clothes and a completely different character). We sat around the campfire and shared our adventures of the day with the neighbor (who knew nothing about the lieutenant's capture or anything else), we were later joined by the fellow who avoided getting caught.

As Saturday was beginning to draw to a close, a Union patrol was getting much too close. We heard a few men starting to come down our path, and the men thinking it was a small group of 2-3 out foraging for wood (as they were earlier) decided to try to ambush them. Much to our gentlemen's surprise it was a patrol, and the ambush resulted in Hank's character being shot at point blank range. He was dead, no doubt about it. The army found us and threatened to kill us all, and finally left us with a warning to remain where we were and to remain quiet...

Our men moved Hank out of the middle of the path and laid him in front of our canvas/blanket shelter, where he laid till darkness crept in. At that point his body was moved away from our sleeping quarters, and close to the road, where under a cloak of darkness he left the event as "dead." This gave us the opportunity to talk about things that night that would never have occurred to us. We had to discuss what to do with the body, and I had to address a 13 year olds questions about God, ghosts, our future... Our camp had a totally different feel to it. While we were all immersed throughout the weekend, we were now deeply immersed in death and mourning. Real tears streamed down our faces. No one took the time to think, oh, this is only temporary, he's not really dead -- at that moment we were living the life of these people as much as a 21st century person can. The joy, the pain, the sorrow, it all "seemed" real (of course it wasn't, but..).

To me, that's why I reenact. Being so busy in the moment both in body and mind that I don't have time to think, 'don't worry, this will all end tomorrow,' (or at noon today). I like events where the citizens do not resurrect if they do something really dumb, like ambush a patrol. This kind of event isn't for everyone, and not everyone would enjoy it either. While I learned a lot from this event, the one thing I came away with is I don't know what I would ever do if I really and truly lost Hank in the 21st century. It took me a few days to get over seeing his body lie motionless on that path, and then to have it lie in camp for 2-3 hours, well...

I had as much of a glimpse of the past that weekend as I think I possibly can without the use of a time machine. Yes, we all have things that can be improved upon but being around a group of people who take the hobby as seriously as I do, is something that I look for in events. As far as I'm concerned, one can't really take the hobby too seriously, unless they want us to start drinking creek water (without proper purification tablets or filters), eat rancid meat, pick lice off our clothes, use real bullets, real physical injury, etc. There is a line of authenticity that no one wants to cross.

Yes, I have a lot of things that I need to work on, and I am working on. Progression is a life long search for the Holy Grail of accuaracy, while knowing that it will never be achieved. So why bother trying? For those who enjoy this kind of thing, it's fun, it's educational, and it provides a totally different kind of experience. If one's never been to an event like the one mentioned above, then one cannot understand the true difference. But these kind of events are not for everyone, and that's why we need all levels of events.


the joys off defecating on themselves because they have "the trots"
I have indeed done just as you said at an event in Tennessee, thoough admittedly it was from all the salt and fat in the pork and not from the water. Our modern low salt low fat diets can really do a number on us at events. My lesson learned from that? Make sure the pork is freshened at least 2-3 times before serving -- it gets the salt out and makes it taste just like fresh pork right out of your grocer's case. :rolleyes:

Linda Trent.