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View Full Version : Homstead. FL. Parade Cancelled Over Flag Row



Blockade Runner
10-07-2009, 03:15 PM
Sadly, it has come to my attention that the forces of the "politically correct" have led to the cancellation of the Homestead Veteran's Day Parade, scheduled for November 11 in Florida. It seems that some groups withdrew from the parade based on the decision to permit the Confederate Battle Flag to be carried during the event. Gregory E. Kalof, an SCV Commander in Miami-Dade County asserted, "We're really disappointed. I'm a Vietnam veteran and I remember when we came home, we were spit upon, and this is no different".

It's painfully ironic that the decision to cancel the parade occured in a Confederate state. I recall this past Memorial Day marching down Consitution Avenue in Washington D.C. carrying a Confederate flag and living Jubal Early's dream.:D

It's certainly a shame that the Homestead parade couldn't have gone on without the disgruntled malcontents.

Rented_Mule
10-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Good for them. Veteran's Day is not to celebrate veterans of foriegn nations who tried to disolve our Union for the purpose of perpetuating chattel slavery.

I believe the state of Florida has its own officially recognized Confederate Veterans Day. Bring your flag to that and with the proper permits you can parade accordingly.

Or are you insistent on forcing your beliefs on others and against the will of the community ?

FloridaHoosier
10-07-2009, 03:44 PM
For full disclosure, here is the rest of the quote from the SCV commander, as printed in the South Florida Times: "We’re really disappointed. That parade was for the veterans. I’m a Vietnam veteran and I remember when we came home, we were spit upon, and this is no different,” Kalof said. “I hope the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) or another organization will do something. I intend to talk to them about it. The NAACP is the cause of this, and I’m disappointed in them, too.” As some folks on here can attest, I've not been a fan of the SCV at times, but I'm even less of a fan of the NAACP throwing around boycott talks, and such seems to be the case here. At this juncture, the NAACP seems insistant on forcing their beliefs on others and against the will of the community. Since this is my home state, nothing surprises me when it comes to the display of CS flags, battle flag or others, but I'll agree with Blockade Runner on this one - it is disappointing , but at least it isn't because the event organizers banned the flag (they voted to allow it). Lets keep the discussions on this relevant and civil.....

FloridaHoosier
10-07-2009, 03:52 PM
A small point, but relevant none the less, the US government recognizes Confederate veterans as military veterans (VA-furnished burial markers, etc), and as such are entitled to celebration by those wishing to at Veteran's Day, although perhaps more properly done on Memorial Day since their are no surviving CS vets...

Rented_Mule
10-07-2009, 04:25 PM
For full disclosure, here is the rest of the quote from the SCV commander, as printed in the South Florida Times: "Were really disappointed. That parade was for the veterans. Im a Vietnam veteran and I remember when we came home, we were spit upon, and this is no different, Kalof said. I hope the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) or another organization will do something. I intend to talk to them about it.
At this juncture, the NAACP seems insistant on forcing their beliefs on others and against the will of the community. Since this is my home state, nothing surprises me when it comes to the display of CS flags, battle flag or others, but I'll agree with Blockade Runner on this one - it is disappointing , but at least it isn't because the event organizers banned the flag (they voted to allow it). Lets keep the discussions on this relevant and civil.....


I dont think for a second the honorable Robert E. Lee would propmote, advocate or particpate in such a parade unit on the day intended to honor the United States fighting man. There are no other foreign nations included ever. Again most Southern states have their own recognized "CSA Memorial Day" so the fact that it is an issue seems pretty clear to be more of an in your face move by the SCV (wow who would think?) and the NACCP would be right to stand firm against the in your face display of something they find very offensive. It is further evidenced to anyone who will apply just a little good faith common sense to see how SCV Commander Kalof places more value on putting the CS flag in position of honor over his own service, the death of 58,000 + American soliders and the many families and other surviving vets today and that is on top of his self-admitted personal mistreatment and that of his comrades upon his return from Vietnam.

Why not focus on that healing and honoring on Veterans Day and do CS on the proper Florida statutorially protected CSA Day and in the proper venue ?

Because it is purely conflagatory. That is why.

I ask BLockade Runner does he particpate in SCV parades and does unit even carry a US flag ? The majority will not.

8th TexCav
10-07-2009, 05:25 PM
Dean,
I cannot speak for Blockade Runner or the Florida SCV but I can let you know that here in Texas we do carry the United States flag at every parade. I am a member of the Texas Mounted Color Guard. We carry all of the flags that Texans have fought under from the Texas Revolution to the current wars. For Memorial and Veterans Days, we also carry the flags that go back to the American Revolution. The US flag always leads our unit of mounted troopers and we are proud of that!

Blockade Runner
10-07-2009, 06:29 PM
I dont think for a second the honorable Robert E. Lee would propmote, advocate or particpate in such a parade unit on the day intended to honor the United States fighting man. There are no other foreign nations included ever. Again most Southern states have their own recognized "CSA Memorial Day" so the fact that it is an issue seems pretty clear to be more of an in your face move by the SCV (wow who would think?) and the NACCP would be right to stand firm against the in your face display of something they find very offensive. It is further evidenced to anyone who will apply just a little good faith common sense to see how SCV Commander Kalof places more value on putting the CS flag in position of honor over his own service, the death of 58,000 + American soliders and the many families and other surviving vets today and that is on top of his self-admitted personal mistreatment and that of his comrades upon his return from Vietnam.

Why not focus on that healing and honoring on Veterans Day and do CS on the proper Florida statutorially protected CSA Day and in the proper venue ?

Because it is purely conflagatory. That is why.

I ask BLockade Runner does he particpate in SCV parades and does unit even carry a US flag ? The majority will not.

Yes, Rented Mule our Color Guard does carry a 50 star U.S. Flag, (not WBTS era).

I would remind you, Rented Mule, that in the 1950's Congress passed legislation establishing no distinction between Confederate Veterans and other U.S.veterans. Among other things that legislation permitted Confederate veterans to obtain grave markers at no cost from the Veterans Administration.

Consequently, in Veterans Day celebrations there should be no distinction between Confederate Veterans and U.S. veterans from any war. As I previously indicated, our Color Guard proudly marched down Constitution Ave. on Memorial Day, and we look forward to participating in the DC National Memorial Day parade again next year.:)

sbl
10-07-2009, 06:44 PM
".....Im a Vietnam veteran and I remember when we came home, we were spit upon, and this is no different, .....


That's more of a urban legend that started just after the first Rambo movie.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=8376


http://books.google.com/books?id=IJrzaNOjjzwC&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=Spitting+on+Vietnam+Veterans%2BFirst+Blood&source=bl&ots=wQuFasVG7R&sig=r_tBghebe10ROz8tPGdqOLpXuKw&hl=en&ei=jyfNStbuEIXj8Qayq6HQCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=Spitting%20on%20Vietnam%20Veterans%2BFirst%20Blo od&f=false

FloridaHoosier
10-07-2009, 07:17 PM
That's more of a urban legend that started just after the first Rambo movie.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=8376


http://books.google.com/books?id=IJrzaNOjjzwC&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=Spitting+on+Vietnam+Veterans%2BFirst+Blood&source=bl&ots=wQuFasVG7R&sig=r_tBghebe10ROz8tPGdqOLpXuKw&hl=en&ei=jyfNStbuEIXj8Qayq6HQCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=Spitting%20on%20Vietnam%20Veterans%2BFirst%20Blo od&f=false

For clarity, the above quote from post #8 was not mine, but one from another quotation - I'm by no means a Viet Nam era vet, nor have I been spit on as such....

mnreb
10-07-2009, 09:44 PM
We were asked to march in a small parade in Mn. by the VFW. We carried 38 star Union Flag and the 1st National. Nothing was said and we were thanked many times over for marching. We have also carried the battle flag with the same results. Guess it depends on where you live and the mental state of mind of those that live there.
Bill Feuchtenberger
Co.H
1st South Carolina Volunteers (Gregg's Brigade)

sbl
10-08-2009, 06:45 AM
For clarity, the above quote from post #8 was not mine, but one from another quotation - I'm by no means a Viet Nam era vet, nor have I been spit on as such....

Excuse me Ross. It wasn't your statement.

flattop32355
10-08-2009, 09:18 AM
Since the states that rebelled were never considered by the national government of the time to have been a separate nation, it can be argued that they are, indeed, soldiers of this country.

I can also appreciate the view that they can be considered as "foreign" troops. The fact that this was a civil war makes for a unique situation in how to classify these men (and women); they can legitimately be seen as both.

The ultimate point of view is an individual thing, but for me, I must fall back on Abraham Lincoln's stance: They are brothers of ours, merely wayward ones.

Keep in mind that this comes from someone who is Union to the core, yet realizes the unique position of the Confederate soldier within our national history.

While I can sympathize with the NAACP or any other group who finds the Confederate battle flag offensive (a view which I share, when it is not used in its proper setting), it is, IMHO, appropriate for use in parades to comemorate those soldiers who fought under it. The same would be true for the Hardee, Polk, or other battle flags of the Southern forces, as well as their national flags.

Pvt Schnapps
10-08-2009, 09:48 AM
Here's a news story from today:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/communities/south/story/1271867.html

Apparently the VFW has stepped in to try to save the parade. The question concerning the battle flag remains unresolved however.

It's hard to say who to blame more for the initial cancellation -- the folks who didn't want to see any parade with the battle flag in it, or the folks who wouldn't parade for veterans unless they could have the battle flag. Seems to me that if American veterans are important enough to you, the U. S. flag should be good enough.

Here's what the NAACP had to say:

``None of us want to cancel the parade,'' said Brad Brown, first vice president of the NAACP Miami-Dade branch. ``If the VFW establishes guidelines that restrict the flags to only the American flag, then we would be happy.''

He added: ``If they don't, we don't think people who don't want to be identified with the Confederate flag should march in the parade.''

Another question that comes to mind is why the VFW would want a battle flag. So far as I know the Confederacy never fought a "foreign war."

Spinster
10-08-2009, 10:30 AM
That's more of a urban legend that started just after the first Rambo movie.




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Might want to ask me about that assertion sometime. After near to 40 years I can still see the pain in his eyes. I can find the names of some casualties on The Wall. Others, not.

sbl
10-08-2009, 11:28 AM
Dear Mrs. Lawson, I sent you a message.

GrumpyDave
10-08-2009, 11:38 AM
I have a question. Why dont' folks try to circumvent the flag issue by carrying the First National and the Bonnie Blue or Hardees Corps flags? I'd bet those PC folks would be clueless.

Spinster
10-08-2009, 11:45 AM
Well yes Grumpy.

Thats the reason the First National now hangs in the Alabama Statehouse, traded for the Naval Jack that was presented by the UDC sometime in the early part of the century. That flag is over the in the State Archives.

Blockade Runner
10-08-2009, 02:48 PM
I have a question. Why dont' folks try to circumvent the flag issue by carrying the First National and the Bonnie Blue or Hardees Corps flags? I'd bet those PC folks would be clueless.

Hi Dave...We carry all sorts of flags when we march, not just the Battle Flag. We have carried the Bonnie Blue, First National, Second National, and Current National;) What we usually carry depends on how many Color Guard members show up for an event. We recently even added a newly created Confederate POW Flag. If I remember correctly, at the Memorial Day parade in DC. we carried fourteen flags, including as I previously mentioned, a fifty star U.S. flag.

gwagner
10-09-2009, 10:25 AM
Good for them. Veteran's Day is not to celebrate veterans of foriegn nations who tried to disolve our Union for the purpose of perpetuating chattel slavery.

I believe the state of Florida has its own officially recognized Confederate Veterans Day. Bring your flag to that and with the proper permits you can parade accordingly.

Or are you insistent on forcing your beliefs on others and against the will of the community ?

Just for clarification then, you are admitting that the CSA was a foreign nation who was invaded by the US unlawfully?

If this is the case, and the war was over slavery, why were the slaves in the US not freed in 1861? Why did the Emancipation Proclamation only free slaves in the seceded states?

""That on the first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand, eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free;"

Frederick Douglass' comments undoubtedly summarized the feelings of many. "It was not a proclamation of 'liberty throughout all the land, unto all the inhabitants thereof,' such as we had hoped it would be, but was one marked by discriminations and reservations. Its operation was confined within certain geographical and military lines. It only abolished slavery where it did not exist, and left it intact where it did exist."

Slaves existed in the United States...those who did not rebel into January of 1865 when the 13th Amendment freed them in the north.

So the US flag then represented slavery longer than the Confederate govt flags, and the battle flag never did. So why allow the US flag, and not the battle flag?

Pvt Schnapps
10-09-2009, 11:51 AM
So why allow the US flag, and not the battle flag?

Because it's our nation's actual flag.

Spinster
10-09-2009, 11:51 AM
Galen

He is a troll and the troll is banned.

Don't feed it.

If some feller needs attention enough to spend time stirring, he needs to get a life.

Hoosier Yank
10-11-2009, 06:44 AM
I’m a little confused about Mr. Gregory E. Kalof statements and what his real agenda is.

Gregory E. Kalof, an SCV Commander in Miami-Dade County asserted, "We're really disappointed. I'm a Vietnam veteran and I remember when we came home, we were spit upon, and this is no different".


I as understand it Public Law 380 made November 11th a day to honor American veterans of all wars. I have no problem what-so-ever with anyone wanting to remember any American veteran PERIOD.

The question I would ask Mr. Kalof is why isn’t he taking pride that he is a Vietnam Veteran and marching under the U.S. National with the American Legion, VFW, Vietnam War Veterans of America, etc…?

When I participate in Veterans Day I don’t show up as Confederate or a Federal. I show up and take pride that I am Chief Personnelman William J. Young II, US Navy, Retired and a **** proud veteran of the world's finest Navy!

This is taken from the Department of Veterans Affairs website:

Q. What is the difference between Veterans Day and Memorial Day?

A. Many people confuse Memorial Day and Veterans Day. Memorial Day is a day for remembering and honoring military personnel who died in the service of their country, particularly those who died in battle or as a result of wounds sustained in battle. While those who died are also remembered on Veterans Day, Veterans Day is the day set aside to thank and honor ALL those who served honorably in the military - in wartime or peacetime. In fact, Veterans Day is largely intended to thank LIVING veterans for their service, to acknowledge that their contributions to our national security are appreciated, and to underscore the fact that all those who served - not only those who died - have sacrificed and done their duty. A complete history of Veterans Day, and why it is observed on November 11, can be found on the Veterans Day History Web page.