Questionable honesty of sellers here...

[agrnbrt]

I am hoping that the mod wont delete this or move it. Because it is something that needs to be addressed and it should be here in the "sales" area for all to read..
Time after time on this site and the other, deals made are tossed aside for back door deals. Now this is not a theory or a 'well maybe'. This is a fact.
I was promised a deal only to later be told by the seller that the item was added to a package deal for other items being sold.
A pard of mine had and item promised only to be told the seller forgot he promised it to someone else not here on the forum.
Now here tonight I got a PM from a seller that I could buy his item and he'd ship it tomorrow if I did a pay pal tonight. Even though my pard told him 2 days ago, that he wanted it and send him a pay pal address, and the buyer responed to him.
I wonder how many others here have had the same thing happen?
Maybe it's time that all deals on here are done up front on the site and not with PM's until after the basic deal is complete.
Now I do know that sometimes PM's here fail, and not everyone has an e-mail address listed. Sh*t happens and some things get dropped by e-errors.
But it's a shame that folks re-nig on deals for a couple of buck more in the back door, when someone all ready thinks he had a deal with a seller.
Just my $.02. But I'd love to see what other think on this.

[josie wales]

Hey, PM sent which may or may not expose some of the s***s that attempt to sell here....where I live a deal is yet a deal, Thanks, JW

[Radar]

Or you send a PM/email inquiring about size/color etc and it takes weeks to get an answer or no answer at all. Their ad just hangs out there in limbo and I guess it never gets sold.

[k6j3p]

I have had a few deals fall apart after seeming to be the first one to publically respond to items minutes after being posted. I even had a confirmation PM sent to me and a few minutes later another PM stating that a mistake was made and I lost the deal...... not sure why. I have sold many items here and always post sold panding payment as soon as a deal is struck, and if multiple inquiries come in I respond stating the status and say if the deal falls thru then the next in line will be notified.
KP
I will say most of the deals made here are honorable

[harley_davis]

This is probably a topic that needs to be addressed, perhaps not in this particular Forum but an important discussion nontheless. If this topic has been discussed in the past, I apologize in advance for adding to the thread. Personally, I have not had any major issues with buyers or sellers on this Forum, couple small things easily resolved with honor. Maybe just dumb luck, perhaps not. I generally look at a posters past record and make my decision from that. A poster with no previous sales or purchases makes me a little cautious, I have more faith in a fellow with several years of membership and has been involved in several purchases. This "poke n hope" method does not address the question of back door PM's however.

Having said that however, I have often wondered if there is a method of providing "feedback" much like eB*y. I suppose it would add a great deal of headaches to the moderators. There is always the very real possibility of abuse in a system such as that as well and as such, may not provide the honest level of reporting one would be hoping for. Still, what is the possibility of such a feature I wonder?

Lacking any other option, I shall still continue to look at past posts if I have questions of an individuals integrity. I still have trust and faith in the vast majority of the persons on this website. Hopefully, that optimism doesnt get dashed in the future.

Respectfully,

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Its a fact of doing business with anyone you don't know, or know well, and it does indeed stink. As someone who has bought and sold countless times through the forums, you get the bad with the good. I've had all of what you mentioned and more happen to me, and you are held at the whim of the sellers honesty and honor. Reenactors are a microcosm of society, and you find bad eggs in the "real world" with much more frequency than on the forums, unfortunately we sometimes expect too much from a fellow reenactor because so many of us do hold our word as our bond. I've had deals withdrawn prior to payment, after payment, and I've even had guys want an item back several weeks after it was bought and sent. By biggest frustration is with people who agree to buy an item and then never send the money or respond to correspondance. You've taken it off the market with potential buyers who do really want it not being able to get it. My recommendation is to try to deal with those you know, someone who can provide refererences (I'm often asked to do that and I'm happy to), or to deal with someone with a higher post count, as they have more to lose if they screw you in a deal. As for a rating system on here for buyers and sellers, it would be a moderation nightmare, and we have to realize the initial reason for this forum was for the social and educational benefits of the members - the giving and sharing of research, posting of events, and meeting other reenactors who share a bond. Buy, sell, and trade was, is, and should be a secondary reason for being on the forum. The host is providing an awful lot of service for nothing in return, and we should respect that.

[Old-South]

Don't know if it is possible with the settings on the forum, but could there be a feedback category put in place for all items for sale? Something like what is done on Ebay?
Mods? Thoughts?

Regards,

[rbruno68]

I have sold a couple of items here and have had no problems. The one time I hit a small snag is when I miss interpreted someones email. I read it to be that they were interested in what I had and needed to get money together. I read that as well I wanted but not sure if I can pay for it now. So, I sold it to the next person. When I found out that they "getting the money together" meant making a transfer and then mailing a check, I was in a tight spot. I was lucky that a fellow pard had the same item he wanted to seel as well. So, it all worked out. Some times mess up are not meant to be back-handed, it just happens. Anyway, it worked out for all in this case, and I should be happy I have had success with the people to whom I have sold things.
Rob Bruno
1st Maryland Cav

[Provost]

Harley,

The chances of us getting an eBay style system here are slim. The costs and time involved make it prohibitive. Bob and I occassionally calculate what we'd "earn" from that system in fees and wonder, but truth is that the time and headaches wouldn't make it worth it. I've thought about banning direct sales totally, forcing folks to post links to sales conducted through eBay or somesuch, but that seemed like punishing the guiltless for the sins of the very few. So we've pretty much left it a truly free market with large "caveat emptor" signs.

Regards

Provost

[Provost]

Jeff,

I'm not an expert on vBulletin, but I think we looked at a "rankings" system for vendors at one point and decided it wasn't worth the hassle. We either had to turn it on for the whole system or not. Couldn't limit it to one or two forums. And once you enable that, you get a boatload of "that's not fair" protests who demand time and attention, which we can't give.

I would suggest that if someone is cautious about buying from someone, go with your gut, pass up the deal or ask them to sell it on eBay and you'll buy it there. Quick way to save yourself a lot of headaches.

Provost

[Provost]

The host is providing an awful lot of service for nothing in return


That's the bottom line. More services would be nice, but the time/cost hassles make it prohibitive. Thanks for understanding.

Provost

[tompritchett]

As has been stated several times in the past, this is a buyer beware environment. Essentially all that can be done is let us know when a buyer has cheated you. While there is usually nothing that we can do about any single instance, there have been a few individuals banned from this forum for repeatedly shafting buyers. But we do have to know that this is a repeated occurrence and not just a "he said -she said" situation.

[Craig L Barry]

...like ususal, here are two things:

1. eBay and their system is far from immune from fraud, I hazard to say it is worse than doing business here in that regard. Somebody hacked my account there, set up a phony paypal account one digit different from my own and posted Superbowl tkts for sale. You want to talk about a mess to clean up...Point being there are fewer rats among us than among the general public. deletion - THP; what went on in Florida Confederate's Social Group was to stay there and not come out here. You brought it out and now it has been deleted.

2. I have never had a serious problem here either buying or selling. But like Ross Lamoreaux says, I usually do business with people I know and have a track record for doing what they say they will do. The number of posts can be a good guide, not fail safe, but a good guide. The worse I can report about buying here is that for some reason people don't consider how they are going to ship what they are selling until the money arrives. Then they look for a box. I buy mostly muskets, and it never fails to amaze me when I question the delay in shipping after I paid promptly, I usually hear back that the seller can't find a box large enough!

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

"I usually hear back that the seller can't find a box large enough!" -the esteemed Mr. Barry.

I hear you Craig. Thats what keeps taking me so long to ship your shirts to you - can't find a box big enough.

[Craig L Barry]

Ross:

Two things:

1. Your museum quality materials and workmanship are always worth the wait.

2. The parable: Have you ever been in a grocery store checking out with a couple steaks, and the woman in front of you is yakking on her cell phone impervious to the fact that her enormous order is now rung up? It is only afterwards, while we are all standing there looking at each other that the lady will say "Oh" and start to look through her suitcase sized purse for her wallet. I guess she thought the ton of groceries were going to be free? The musket seller without a box or shipping container on hand is like that woman. But you know a gentleman would never say anything in a situation like that...

[PetePaolillo]

As has been stated several times in the past, this is a buyer beware environment. Essentially all that can be done is let us know when a buyer has cheated you. While there is usually nothing that we can do about any single instance, there have been a few individuals banned from this forum for repeatedly shafting buyers. But we do have to know that this is a repeated occurrence and not just a "he said -she said" situation.


People need to be able to post negative feedback on here in regards to sales gone bad without the fear of being punished for it. There are certain repeat offenders that are still shafting people and they have continually been allowed to sell here. Yes it is buyer beware and the only way is to find out if they are thieves or not is to see the bad as well as good reviews. An honest seller selling a quality product has nothing to fear from this.

[Provost]

No one is "punished" for posting negative stuff about a seller here. The mistake is merely corrected and we go on. If they get an attitude and want to run the show, that's another matter and the insistance on talking specifically about a bad sale is probably just an excuse to get their own way.

As we've noted before, we are not detectives and if someone gets on here and defames someone else for a bad sale that puts us in a bad situation. Anyone could make that claim, just to run down a competitor or air a grudge. It's happened.

And that defamed seller could come back on us with legal action. Which would immediately put us out of operation. So we' try to avoid the issue and encourage folks to say, "If you can't say something good, just be quiet."

So, if you've been ripped off, as Tom said, let us know and if we see a pattern we may be able to help out with advice or whatever. On rare occassions we've pulled someone's plug but it's usually for a whole constellation of problems, the sales being only part of that.

Of course, if you ask for folks to PM you about a seller before you buy, I don't read people's PMs, ya know... ;)

Provost

[Craig L Barry]

deletion - THP; what went on in Florida Confederate's Social Group was to stay there and not come out here. You brought it out and now it has been deleted.
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Understood, however, this statement was a general observation not directed toward any one individual in particular. Point being, know who you are doing business with. If you have never heard of or seen them before, it is a definite red flag.