Stecils For SWORD CRATE

[HandSpike]

This is along the same lines as the request for Hard Tack Box Stencils. Instead I am looking for a picture of a box that identifies "Artillery Swords". I made a large box into a cooler and now I need something appropiate to mark the box, and since I am in an Artillery unit and the box is to large to mark as shells someone suggested "Artillery Swords." If anyone has any ideas, or a place I can go and research ,I'd love to hear them!!

[PVT.THIB]

So you want a period suggestion to cover up your 21st century cooler?

[tompritchett]

So you want a period suggestion to cover up your 21st century cooler?

Moderator Hat: Let's not go down that path or else I will start deleting threads right and left. The man asked a question. If you can not give him a civil answer, keep your comments to yourself. Thank you.

[PVT.THIB]

I was just trying to get it straight, Tom. But, yes, I wiil lay off it.
Thanks,

[Blair]

Handspike,

What are the demotions of the box?
Would it be large enough to accommodate the Artillery "Short" sword or the "Saber" length sword?
Next question would be, How were sword/sabers boxed/packages for shipment?

[Mint Julep]

First, an answer to the question:

I recommend you treat this as a box that was sent from home full of goodies and retained in camp once emptied to be used as "camp furniture". Paint your name and unit address info on it with a small brush, maybe on two sides. This will provide the appearance of shipping information and make it easier for you to claim the box if someone attempted to pilfer it.

It is doubtful artillery swords were issued in camp on campaign from boxes.

Second ... well, I probably can't post what I'm thinking because Tom will just delete it. Let's just say I hope you don't hurt your rump as you back into authenticity.

[plankmaker]

What Joe said, or possible "Adams Express"

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1864/november/adams-express.htm

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[FloridaConfederate]

I had already made this before this afternoon's events transpired so I wanted to post it up:

It is done in a genuine period font and can be cut out with an exacto and used as a stencil for a brush w/ thinned oil paint. PM me for .word file.

It will print to 11.5 X 14 landscaped. Not historically correct but if you dont care I just like making "period" labels/things like this

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=49&pictureid=222


Later....

Chris Rideout
Tampa, FLorida

[tompritchett]

Take my comment in the context of some of the other threads I had just dealt with. I just was not in the mood at the time for that type of sarcasism towards someone who was asking for suggestions. To his credit, he has built a box around his cooler rather than just throwing a tarp or blanket over it. Also, I would like to point out that when you see large coolers associated with a mainstream reenacting group, it is much more likely to be filled with food items than alcoholic beverages, which are more often kept in smaller individual coolers. And yes I know that it is possible to keep certain foods in the field without ice but that it something that many mainstreamers are uncomfortable doing (e.g., eggs and smoked meats). Just because a unit has a cooler does not mean that there are drunks in camps at night or even any drinking at all.

[6thkentucky]

I made a couple of boxes for my wife at the time a few years ago. They were made to period sizes. To make them more correct and to add to the fun, I labeled them. I looked thru a original 1862 newspaper and found an ad for a hat maker. I made a label with all of their info on it. For the other box I found a London shoe maker online who was around during the war and is still in business. I painted their emblem and info on that box. To top it off I made railroad shipping labels for the L & N railroad and signed them to be delivered to her at the nearest depot to our home.

They got lots of good comments. Wonder if she still has them? LOL

[topog]

Dear Chris -- I hate to point out that there is but one "p" in Chicopee.
Best regards,
Don

[HandSpike]

Some of you guys are the reason people do not try and ask questions ... First of all don't assume ... I am a pastor and I don't drink ... Secondly I also do campaign style ... Third I am very serious about what I do since I had a great grandfather, and great, great grandfather who served with distinction through 4 years of ****. Fourth , I am part of a unit which tries to be as authentic as possible. I, like you have seen units who have lawn chairs, modern condements on tables, and grills, and it is appauling. You have a right to be sarcastic in some instanses, but make sure it is founded. I'm just trying to do what is right

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

This is along the same lines as the request for Hard Tack Box Stencils. Instead I am looking for a picture of a box that identifies "Artillery Swords". I made a large box into a cooler and now I need something appropiate to mark the box, and since I am in an Artillery unit and the box is to large to mark as shells someone suggested "Artillery Swords." If anyone has any ideas, or a place I can go and research ,I'd love to hear them!!

Some of you guys are the reason people do not try and ask questions ... First of all don't assume ... I am a pastor and I don't drink ... Secondly I also do campaign style ... Third I am very serious about what I do since I had a great grandfather, and great, great grandfather who served with distinction through 4 years of ****. Fourth , I am part of a unit which tries to be as authentic as possible. I, like you have seen units who have lawn chairs, modern condements on tables, and grills, and it is appauling. You have a right to be sarcastic in some instanses, but make sure it is founded. I'm just trying to do what is right

No Offense here, but I suppose the concern from folks is that while you "want to do it right", it's highly unlikely that the dimensions of your cooler-box match those of a period sword crate. As noted in by a few of the other posters, I'd STRONGLY recommend you consider using a period shipping label (like the Adams Express Label), since you're box more than likely doesn't conform to shipment of arms coming from an Armory. Other options you might have are to research other shipping containers, things that maybe were wholely civilian in nature, but that maybe your Unit was able to forage??

I hate to point out that there is but one "p" in Chicopee.
Best regards,
Don

Well...that depends right?? I examined a cartridge box several years ago manufactured by the E. Gaylord Company of CHICOPPEE MASS....while there's a probability that could have been a typo, it sure would be interesting to see contemporary maps, address labels from the period and see what they said, right?? Perhaps it was acceptable in the period for both spellings (Chicopee and Chicoppee), but our modern lexicon has simply adopted one over the other...(I'm reminded of grey and gray).

Paul B.

[hanktrent]

Fourth , I am part of a unit which tries to be as authentic as possible.

Since it's possible in most cases to reenact without a cooler, and most reenactors who reenact "campaign style" don't use coolers, would you like information on how it's possible not to need one?

Don't know if Tom will delete this, but I'm not being sarcastic or flippant. Period food is one of my interests, and we can start a new thread. I'm off to an event this weekend, but will be glad to pitch in to the discussion when I get back.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[7thNJcoA]

Since it's possible in most cases to reenact without a cooler, and most reenactors who reenact "campaign style" don't use coolers, would you like information on how it's possible not to need one?

Don't know if Tom will delete this, but I'm not being sarcastic or flippant. Period food is one of my interests, and we can start a new thread. I'm off to an event this weekend, but will be glad to pitch in to the discussion when I get back.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com


I would like to learn more I know some of the basics but you seem to have more knowledge and I am always on the hunt for more information...

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Instead of getting irate at those who are offering you a better, more period way to cover your non-period goods, thank them and use it as a starting point to continue your own research into what will work better for you. As an aside, try to refrain from phrases like "tries to be as authentic as possible" when obviously this isn't the case. "As authentic as possible" does not include using boxes that wouldn't just be laying around camp such as armament boxes, particularly for an arm in limited supply in most theaters, and it certainly does not include the use of a cooler. Perhaps the phrase, "makes strides toward some mode of period-type feeling sometimes, or at least when the spectators are around". I'm certainly not trying to be flippant, but encouraging you to not snap at those who have earnestly tried to assist you in your endeavor. The times that I'm not trying to be "as authentic as possible", my experience with coolers at events has been to buy a cheaper cooler, bury it in the ground up to a couple of inches below the lid and place something like a painted cloth over it. Its covered much better and insulates it further.

[hanktrent]

I would like to learn more I know some of the basics but you seem to have more knowledge and I am always on the hunt for more information...

I'm heading out in about half an hour so will have to answer back later, but first question I'd ask is, what foods do you feel need kept cold?

Army marching rations don't have anything that needs refrigerated. Bacon from places like Scott Hams just gets shipped in hot mail trucks as far as I know (never came with any refrigeration when I've ordered it), so it's already been in worse conditions than it'll see at a reenactment. Luxuries that we'd refrigerate in modern life can simply be done without for a couple days, and there are numerous additions to marching rations, depending on the historic situation, that didn't need refrigeration--fruits, vegetables, condiments, baked goods, etc.

So, what do you (or anyone) require at an event that needs a cooler? What problems are you having finding an equally plausible period substitute that doesn't require being kept cold?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Mint Julep]

Some of you guys are the reason people do not try and ask questions ... First of all don't assume ... I am a pastor and I don't drink ... Secondly I also do campaign style ... Third I am very serious about what I do since I had a great grandfather, and great, great grandfather who served with distinction through 4 years of ****. Fourth , I am part of a unit which tries to be as authentic as possible. I, like you have seen units who have lawn chairs, modern condements on tables, and grills, and it is appauling. You have a right to be sarcastic in some instanses, but make sure it is founded. I'm just trying to do what is right

Well, pastor, we had two ordained ministers in my old mainstream group and they could put away as much beer as anyone.

We pretty much all had ancestors in the war and that is a source of pride for our involvement in the hobby to some degree more or less. Your ancestors would have surely admired your handiwork and remarked on the capabilities of your cooler, but when the army was told to pack it up and march away, they would have tossed that box on the fire and watched it burn.

If you are trying to be as authentic as possible, why don't you try being authentic enough not to need a cooler?

I've made no assumptions about you or your box. My opinion is as valid as your's or any man's. My right to respond to your post is as good as your's to make the post. If you don't like the responses you get, consider for a moment that maybe it isn't the responses that are wrong, it is the question. Maybe your box isn't "as authentic as possible".

Since you claim to be a pastor, I'm going to "assume" you are a Christian and remind you to turn the other cheek. Frankly, I think you are just embarassed because you thought you were being authentic and found out you weren't and your embarassment has turned to anger. I forgive you, pastor, for your failures. Can you forgive others for pointing them out?

[tompritchett]

Since it's possible in most cases to reenact without a cooler, and most reenactors who reenact "campaign style" don't use coolers, would you like information on how it's possible not to need one?

Don't know if Tom will delete this, but I'm not being sarcastic or flippant.

It is the sarcastic and flippant posts that would get deleted, not those posts that are sincerely trying to either answer the question or to provide alternatives. However, I do think that the automatic assumption by some here that coolers means beer does tend to grate on some peoples' nerves after a while, especially when that assumption becomes the basis for flippant and sarcastic comments that do not address the original question.

[Mint Julep]

It is the sarcastic and flippant posts that would get deleted, not those posts that are sincerely trying to either answer the question or to provide alternatives. However, I do think that the automatic assumption by some here that coolers means beer does tend to grate on some peoples' nerves after a while, especially when that assumption becomes the basis for flippant and sarcastic comments that do not address the original question.


Tom,

Why is an assumption that a cooler would contain beer? My first 20 years in this hobby were firmly in the mainstream world and I never saw a cooler in camp that didn't contain beer, including those belonging to non-drinkers. Guys that didn't have a cooler or didn't want to carry one in camp would offer to buy the ice if they could store their beer in the cooler. In the mid-90's, my unit was subsisting solely on authentic rations in camp, yet we had a tent on our company street dedicated solely to holding all the beer coolers in camp. We called it the "Likker Sto".

It isn't an assumption, it is an observation based on years of experience.

And, you know, there is nothing wrong with sarcasm. Sometimes it delivers a point better than an explanation. Where it takes a wrong turn is when it becomes condescending sarcasm. I'm pretty good at it.

Now, a story:
At the 1989 Franklin event (an event so cold that old timers like me still measure how cold events are against it) we were sitting around the campfire as usual Saturday night, drinking, singing and generally having a good time while trying not to freeze to death. We had a regular bonfire going on the company street and yet we all had on all the clothes we had with us trying to stay warm. I noticed two fellows sitting on a cooler drinking beer. I asked them "Why do you have a cooler for your beer out here? Ain't it cold enough for you?" They opened it to show me there was no ice in it. "We are keeping in there to keep it from freezing!"

[GrumpyDave]

Google: Charlies Boatworks

See what he's got.

[HandSpike]

Good ideas Paul ... I must admit I hadn't given any thought to civilian packaging ... Thank You

[Poor Private]

Tom,

Why is an assumption that a cooler would contain beer? My first 20 years in this hobby were firmly in the mainstream world and I never saw a cooler in camp that didn't contain beer, including those belonging to non-drinkers. Guys that didn't have a cooler or didn't want to carry one in camp would offer to buy the ice if they could store their beer in the cooler. In the mid-90's, my unit was subsisting solely on authentic rations in camp, yet we had a tent on our company street dedicated solely to holding all the beer coolers in camp. We called it the "Likker Sto".

It isn't an assumption, it is an observation based on years of experience.

And, you know, there is nothing wrong with sarcasm. Sometimes it delivers a point better than an explanation. Where it takes a wrong turn is when it becomes condescending sarcasm. I'm pretty good at it.

Now, a story:
At the 1989 Franklin event (an event so cold that old timers like me still measure how cold events are against it) we were sitting around the campfire as usual Saturday night, drinking, singing and generally having a good time while trying not to freeze to death. We had a regular bonfire going on the company street and yet we all had on all the clothes we had with us trying to stay warm. I noticed two fellows sitting on a cooler drinking beer. I asked them "Why do you have a cooler for your beer out here? Ain't it cold enough for you?" They opened it to show me there was no ice in it. "We are keeping in there to keep it from freezing!"

Too steal a phrase from someone "maybe you went to the wrong events", I proudly claim to be a mainstreamer, I like the more relaxed atmosphere there. I carry a cooler of some type most every time I go. If the weather is going to be hot I carry a medium coleman style cooler, to keep my food and frozen water(out of my own well). this cooler has a form fitted canvas traveling cover like seen in many photos. I use that water as it becomes unfrozen in my cateen and for cooking. Otherwise I have a nice small insulated wooden box (cartridge box size) that I use, when it is cooler weather not as much water needed. I NEVER CARRY BEER, or some such. so a making a broad statement that everyone carries beer gets a big ERRRRk. I would say that only about 25% may have some kind of alcohol with them.
Now if your talking getting rid of non period personal habits. Lets start with smoking those filtered fags at the drop of a hat. The minute drill is stopped, or any kind of rest wether it be in place or otherwise, 1/2 the troops pull out a pack a smokes and light up, including the commanders from the NCO's to the officer in command. Not many coolers are taken into drill, or guard duy, or picket duty, or even the pubilc battle or tactical. But every one who smokes cigs have modern cigs with those lovely filters.. If your going to smoke learn to roll your own in the field, bring your tobaccy pouch with papers.

[HandSpike]

Mr. Julpe, I apologize to you or anyone else if I have come across as angry or prideful, that was not my intent. You are correct in stating that you have a right to respond, as I have a right to ask (that is called freedom). We who are starting out in reenacting look to those old campaigners such as yourself for guidance and knowledge that's why we come to this sight. When we recieve sarcasim from some for a percieved valid question, it's kinda hard to take. As for your two "ordained ministers" I will not comment. I do wish to do things "correctly" I see far to many people teaching living history to our future generations incorrectly. Thank you for your help and comments. One thing I would ask some of the forum members,when making comments is that they keep in mind that they once were in the position of "fresh fish" Finally, from the comments I am recieving, I guess I should just pack it up ... throw the cooler on the fire and watch it burn.

[Spinster]

Nope--don't burn it--tart it up with some good shipping labels instead of assuming a military issue box.

Then, hold on to it until you've learned the field craft necessary to do without it. Certainly, that takes awhile--just like learning drill or loading a weapon or keeping warm.

And, while I'm fond of period packaging and finding a creek to cool things in, sometimes thats not possible--and there are occassions where we still find a cooler necessary---having a 'bottle baby' in the civilian area sometimes necessitates a cooler, depending on the particular brand of formula and storage method required. Nursing babies are much easier, but still may require extra prep.

So, eventually, the opportunity for Christian Charity will arise, and you'll be able to pass that fine box on to someone who really needs it. Either that, or you really will get to an ultra cold ultra wet event, and fling it onto the pile for survival.....

In the meantime, all the rest of the grown 'bottle babies' need to remember : All beer is good beer, even warm beer. And put the stuff in a wooden keg with a tap.......;)

[tompritchett]

All beer is good beer, even warm beer.

But Mrs. Lawson, you are assuming that most reenactors would actually know what "good" beer actually tasted like. :D

[tompritchett]

I NEVER CARRY BEER, or some such. so a making a broad statement that everyone carries beer gets a big ERRRRk.

Thank you for confirming what I was saying. I know that if I am going at to event by myself I do not need a cooler for preserving my food as everything goes into my haversack. However when my unit takes the field, we always have a cooler loaded with at least food and sometimes cold Gatorade for replenishing electrolytes. Since the unit has been formed I can probably count on one hand the number of times there has actually been any beer in those coolers. Likewise, when I oversaw the commissary operations for my prior unit for two years, I know that there was never any beer in the commissary coolers. When individuals had beer (if that is what you wanted to call it :wink: ), it was in their own personal coolers. Maybe back in the days when reenacting was primary a bunch of guys taking the field together, Mint's assumptions about Mainstreamer coolers would have been valid, but today with the more family oriented mainstream units I think that you will find that the overnight drinking parties have lost their importance. I am not saying that there are not mainstream units that still hold such drinking parties, because there are, rather I am saying that there are a lot more mainstream units where such partying rarely, if ever, occurs.

[Mint Julep]

Tom,

The last big mainstream event I attended was Mill Springs a couple of years ago. There were plenty of families present. I bet there was a beer available for every person on the site, regardless of age or gender or reason for being onsite. There wasn't a single one in our camp (AoP), but even we had a few flasks to keep us amused.

Maybe you and Cris are in the 5% of the hobby that don't drink. Most mainstream units I've been around and observed were really drinking clubs with a reenacting problem.

[Mint Julep]

this cooler has a form fitted canvas traveling cover like seen in many photos.

Period photos? Seriously? Is that what you are saying? Please, show me.

As for the smokes ... still hanging out with the wrong reenactors?

Again, if you don't like what you see or do at events, why do you continue to play with those people?

If you saw a cigarette at a cph event, it is either rolled or a spectator. If a participant lit up, the guy beside him would likely knock it from his mouth and stomp it. We don't tolerate that stuff. Even rolled is frowned upon, since it was not a common thing in the campaigning armies. Tobacco was hard enough to find, where are you going to get rolling papers? The sutler doesn't carry them.

[GaWildcat]

Our unit, while not adopting a temperance stance, is fairly temperant. It is a rare occasion when there is alcohol in camp. And then it may only be a couple of beers on Friday night...dont ask how it happened, it just did. no rule against it, no push to stop it.. folks just dont drink much in our company, and to be honest, its kinda nice.

[Mint Julep]

Bobby,

I agree, it is nice. It is one of the reasons I came to prefer the cph events. While there may be a little nip here and there, it isn't overt, obvious or out of hand.

And without the beer cans, there is less cleanup the next morning.

[GaWildcat]

Bobby,

I agree, it is nice. It is one of the reasons I came to prefer the cph events. While there may be a little nip here and there, it isn't overt, obvious or out of hand.

And without the beer cans, there is less cleanup the next morning.

I think thats why our boys are so temperant, they like to sleep over the boisterous loud drunken behavior found in a couple units we are friends with. Add to that, our boys are all pretty courteous and considerate, though they do tend to get salty in the language sometimes, and another factor in the temperate attitude is that we have three children under the age of three in the unit (two of them just weeks apart). Heaven knows, the parents (me and my wife included) are ready to hit the bed as soon as the kids are out! Our camp is usually quiet by about 2230 to 2300. (If the kids aren't there, maybe later, but its still a fairly dry camp, we just stay up later swapping lies and hacking on each other)

It also helps another way. Dehydration in our company is usually not a factor, as I force water down my guys throats, AND they aren't deyhdrated and hung over from the day before. Much more efficient force on the field, both drill and 'batttle'

Cans? who drinks beer in cans??:rolleyes:

[Mint Julep]

Cans? who drinks beer in cans??:rolleyes:

Beer bottles are weapons. Kegs are too heavy for the haversack. Live and learn, my boy.

[TheQM]

Beer bottles are weapons. Kegs are too heavy for the haversack. Live and learn, my boy.

Joe,

My haversack easily holds four 16 oz. cans! :)

[Spinster]

Y'all boys are just bad.
But then, I knew that.

Tom--I really need to teach you how to make switchel.
Gatorade is just Nasty.

[tompritchett]

Beer bottles are weapons. Kegs are too heavy for the haversack. Live and learn, my boy.

I think the point was more that most beverages sold in cans as "beer" technically may fit one of the many classifications for beer but most purists just consider them alcohol spiked, flavored water. Even the good beers (Yuegling for example) that do get sold in cans just taste better coming out of the bottle and for the purest, it is all about the taste and not the buzz.

[Mint Julep]

Beer snobs ... coffee snobs ... cigar snobs ... whiskey snobs ...

They all waste my time and their energy trying to tell me what I like to drink or smoke. One man's "good beer" is another man's "yeck".

FWIW, I prefer my beer straight from the bottle.

[tompritchett]

They all waste my time and their energy trying to tell me what I like to drink or smoke. One man's "good beer" is another man's "yeck".

There is some irony in this exchange. :) Based upon your experience your tastes in reenacting demand more of events than most Mainstream events that I am usually comfortable with. Similarly, based upon my experience, my tastes demand more out of beers than most other American beer drinkers. So while all beers taste the same to you, I prefer the beers where you actually have tastes to judge, just as you prefer events that challenge you more than the typical mainstream event. I wonder, would that make me a 5%er as a beer drinker? Please do not think that I am picking on you or trying to make fun of you, but I just could not help seeing the humorous parallel between our exchange over beer and the many "us" versus "them" fights we tend to get here periodically.

[Mint Julep]

I fully agree, Tom. I even twinged at posting that because there is an irony.

However, the comparison ends when you see how many posts have been made in the past month by mainstreamers complaining about the events they attend and the distracting actions of the other participants. Those guys are dissatisfied with their part of the hobby and might benefit from moving to a more advanced palate.

Guys that like cheap beer will swill just about anything and enjoy it. You never hear one of them say "Gee, I really wish there were fewer women drinking this beer" or "I am so tired of all the little kids that drink this beer and ruin my good time" or "I hate how every time I'm drinking beer, some pompous ass leaves me standing out in the sun" or ...

... you get the idea, right?

Ooh, I got another one! "I hate how I have to stand in line for the portajohn while I'm drinking beer" ... no, wait, that one makes sense ...

[tompritchett]

However, the comparison ends when you see how many posts have been made in the past month by mainstreamers complaining about the events they attend and the distracting actions of the other participants. Those guys are dissatisfied with their part of the hobby and might benefit from moving to a more advanced palate.

And on that point we do not disagree.

[dale beasley]

It all depends on the type of nails that are being used...are they period correct? I couldn't have round nails in my box, even if it was on a Friday prior to the event.