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FloridaConfederate
07-11-2009, 06:55 AM
I'm not a CS flag flier.

Makes you wonder who the party within SC which didnt want the revenue into their own state is? So it off to North Carolina.

I wonder if the dissenters know the significance of the blue field bearing a singly star is on the NC flag is ??


July 6, 2009

GREENSBORO, N.C. (theACC.com) - The Atlantic Coast Conference Baseball
Championship will be held at NewBridge Bank Park in Greensboro, N.C. (2012),
and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park (2011, 2013), as announced today by ACC
Commissioner John Swofford. This will give the championship a home through
2013 as it was recently released that the 2010 ACC Baseball Championship
would be held in Greensboro, N.C.

The 2011-13 championships were originally awarded to Myrtle Beach. The ACC's
decision to hold the tournament in this location was made with the
stipulation that discussions be held, and agreements made, with all local
and state organizations that had voiced concerns over the confederate flag
being flown on the state grounds of the South Carolina State Capitol.

Since 2000, the conference has supported the NAACP's statements concerning
the flag issue and followed the NCAA's policy of not holding pre-determined
championships in the state of South Carolina. In 2005, the conference
presidents agreed that the ACC would be willing to consider awarding league
championships to venues in the state of South Carolina on a case-by-case
basis, provided that the host-site proposal included a plan to work with the
NAACP at the local and state levels to ensure a proper environment.

"Our baseball committee and institutional administrators awarded the
championships to Myrtle Beach with the understanding that the event had the
blessings of all parties within the state of South Carolina. It has become
clear this was not the case," stated ACC Commissioner John Swofford. "It's
unfortunate that this miscommunication occurred and since the original
announcement, we have had productive conversations with members of the
NAACP. In the end, given the conference's commitment to diversity, equality
and human rights, our institutions have determined that this change should
be made."


Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

5 th Alabama Infantry
07-11-2009, 07:55 AM
Good bye. Good Riddance.

CUPP
07-11-2009, 03:52 PM
Im not from south carolina, But does not having these championship games really hurt the state ? I dont believe it would....

agrnbrt
07-11-2009, 07:03 PM
God bless South Carolina for standing their ground!

sbl
07-11-2009, 08:14 PM
"God bless South Carolina for standing their ground!"



I don't think any god wastes his or her time.

tompritchett
07-12-2009, 12:40 PM
Good bye. Good Riddance.

While I strongly believe the NAACP is out to lunch with the their boycott of South Carolina on the flag issue and its apparent lack of flexibility with the ACC on this issue with the champion series, I can not find fault with the ACC in this one. Considering the importance of black collegiate athletes in such sports as football and basketball, the latter a sport in which the ACC has always been a powerhouse conference, the last thing the ACC needed was a NAACP call for potential black recruits to boycott ACC schools. In football, the loss of one or two recruits often may not affect a school's record over the potential span of their careers but in basketball, a loss of even one blue-chip recruit can be mean a conference championship or two and possibly even a national championship (ACC schools have an annoying habit of winning those dang things). In my book, moving the location of your championship series to another state is a much safer alternative.

agrnbrt
07-12-2009, 06:54 PM
Gee Tom I guess the naacp is right when they say...there were no Colored (Black, Afro American, African American) Confederates. So they never fought under the Stars and Bars, or the Southron Cross flag?
More pc BS pure and simple trying to erase history.
Oh yeah... shouldn't you be moderating yourself with your present day political post.

sbl
07-12-2009, 08:05 PM
Nice..........bite the hand that moderates this forum.

Capt Terry
07-13-2009, 08:02 AM
"God bless South Carolina for standing their ground!"



I don't think any god wastes his or her time.

Oh I think they do. This is an outrage! I am with the good people of South Carolina. Stick to your guns!

Capt Terry
07-13-2009, 08:10 AM
While I strongly believe the NAACP is out to lunch with the their boycott of South Carolina on the flag issue and its apparent lack of flexibility with the ACC on this issue with the champion series, I can not find fault with the ACC in this one. Considering the importance of black collegiate athletes in such sports as football and basketball, the latter a sport in which the ACC has always been a powerhouse conference, the last thing the ACC needed was a NAACP call for potential black recruits to boycott ACC schools. In football, the loss of one or two recruits often may not affect a school's record over the potential span of their careers but in basketball, a loss of even one blue-chip recruit can be mean a conference championship or two and possibly even a national championship (ACC schools have an annoying habit of winning those dang things). In my book, moving the location of your championship series to another state is a much safer alternative.

Tom! Remember you're a Kentuckian and we by ourselves have won almost as many National CHampionships as all the ACC teams combined. Never give the ACC even a crumb.....

Sorry, but the NAACP stand on these issues in is lame at best and has no depth.

dale beasley
07-13-2009, 08:52 AM
My Fathers Cousin, the former Governor of South Carolina...pretty much lost is job due to this flag issue. If the SCV could focus on anything else, they might would give off a bit creditibility to folks who are just tired of hearing of the "same ole cause"

Dale Beasley

sbl
07-13-2009, 08:54 AM
Maybe Baal or Dagon listens. Mars definately.

Good people might see this as pure provincialism. Sure looks that way from up here in the "Warsaw Pact." As interested in the subject as I am without being emotionally involved, it looks like some people think they have to express their heritage by being in your face to another people. I don't think black people, who's race was victimized, deserve having an old injury waved in their face by some white people who feel victimized today.

Sounds like the Marching Season in Belfast.

5 th Alabama Infantry
07-13-2009, 09:18 AM
My Fathers Cousin, the former Governor of South Carolina...pretty much lost is job due to this flag issue. If the SCV could focus on anything else, they might would give off a bit creditibility to folks who are just tired of hearing of the "same ole cause"

Dale Beasley

Our creditability is fine , thank you . Sure helped get rid of Governor Beasley and Barnes in Georgia.

dale beasley
07-13-2009, 09:25 AM
I would like to refer to you by your name. You have that advantage over me.

I totally disagree with you in regards to the Sons of the Confederate Veterans. Now, I would love to hear your opinion, but at work I am only able to discuss one issue at a time.

Which would you lke to discuss first? The flag issue, or the lack of creditability of the SCV...or you not supporting my cousin;)

Dale Beasley

Ross L. Lamoreaux
07-13-2009, 09:35 AM
Our creditability is fine , thank you . Sure helped get rid of Governor Beasley and Barnes in Georgia.

You give the SCV WAY too much credit in that. It is commonly known in Georgia that the flag issue was minor in comparison to other issues within the state. Barnes didn't get reelected simply because he sucked as a governor. Even if every SCV member in the state reacted by not voting for him, that would make up less than 1% of registered voters. I for one wasn't happy what he did with the flag, but that wasn't why he wasn't reelected. In serious political circles, the SCV does indeed have a credibility problem. Despite the opinion of a few, the majority decides.

Craig L Barry
07-13-2009, 10:19 AM
Modern politics aside, what ACC member schools are in or around Myrtle Beach, South Carolina to begin with? Then after that, who cares where the ACC plays their baseball tournament? What does it have to do with Civil War reenacting? Non-news/news story designed to incite the states rights/southron heritage crowd. It worked, too. Just like you'd expect...

FloridaConfederate
07-13-2009, 10:44 AM
Modern politics aside, what ACC member schools are in or around Myrtle Beach, South Carolina to begin with? Then after that, who cares where the ACC plays their baseball tournament? What does it have to do with Civil War reenacting? Non-news/news story designed to incite the states rights/southron heritage crowd. It worked, too. Just like you'd expect...


Collegiate, High School and Youth sports love to do tourneys in Southern states and climates, especially at purpose designed facilities capable of supporting the round robin format and infrastructure needs of collegiate athletes. These events bring a windfall of revenue to hoteliers, restaurateurs and all other manner of business in the local community.

You will see I didn't post anything about or name organizations (SCV / NAACP) but in fact left it quite generic and geared toward discussion of using the CS / Civil War and its symbolism divisively to interrupt the financial gain of an unrelated community event as some poorly contrived substitute for "justice" wherein there has been no success in the legislative process of addressing the same.

Correct me if I am wrong it no longer flies ore the capitol, but has been relocated to the CS monument at the side of capital ?

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

dale beasley
07-13-2009, 11:21 AM
Our creditability is fine , thank you . Sure helped get rid of Governor Beasley and Barnes in Georgia.

I really wish the "Flag Issue" would go away.

When my son was at the Naval Academy this summer, he was asked about the flag issue. I guess because we are from Mississippi. He responded "He was there serving his flag" ..."and it has 50 stars on it.

40AcreMule
07-13-2009, 04:21 PM
Good people might see this as pure provincialism. Sure looks that way from up here in the "Warsaw Pact." As interested in the subject as I am without being emotionally involved, it looks like some people think they have to express their heritage by being in your face to another people. I don't think black people, who's race was victimized, deserve having an old injury waved in their face by some white people who feel victimized today.

Scott, you don't speak for blacks. I don't see SC's decision as being "in my face". You sound like the typical white New England liberal sitting smuggly off in Lala Land and passing judgement on the South, coming to the rescue of we poor "victimized" blacks just so you can feel good about your guilty white self. Quite frankly, I don't need or want your sanctimonious sympathy. I find it utterly insincere and self-serving.

Remember that scene in Spike Lee's "Malcom X"... where the liberal white girl asks Malcom what she can do to help the black civil rights cause? His answer was: "Nothing". Learn from this and mind your own back yard.

sbl
07-13-2009, 04:43 PM
The moral is that I understand that I don't understand.

As Stan Marsh said: "I don't get it."

bob 125th nysvi
07-13-2009, 05:31 PM
buy into the ACC decision it is obvious that they are following the money trail by avoiding the controversy altogether.

Someone at the ACC has obviously done some analysis that indicated it is more economically worthwhile to them to ignore the flag supporters and go with the flag bashers.

Now is it a small drop in the bucket, economically? Sure I really don't think South Carolina's government is going to lose any sleep over it. But maybe SC should be careful before dining too well on that pie, it may soon turn into humble pie. An avalanche starts with just a snowball and a bucket spills over on the last drop not the first.

Right or wrong, the day may not be far off when SC either bows to the wishes of the majority of people in this country OR the voters of SC eventually force the government to change its stance.

But that is the nice thing about America, the voters of SC can either change or support the policy. And at the moment they are willing to stand by their principles.

Which is also their right.

FloridaConfederate
07-13-2009, 06:11 PM
On April 12, 2000, the South Carolina state senate finally passed a bill to remove the flag by a majority of 36-7. The bill specified that a more traditional version of the battle flag (square shaped as opposed to the rectangular flag now flying above the statehouse) would be flown in front of the Capitol next to a monument honoring fallen Confederate soldiers. The bill then went to the House, where it encountered some difficulty. But on May 18, 2000, after the bill was modified to ensure that the height of the flag's new pole would be 30 feet, it was passed by a majority of 66 to 43, and Governor Jim Hodges signed the bill five days later. On July 1, the flag was removed from the South Carolina statehouse.

After legislative due prcess it was moved and is now flown over a CS monument on aother part of the capitol property.

I have said before I am not a CS flag flier nor support its use on public property outside of the appropriate historical context. The top of the Capitol is not the proper historical context to my eye. Over a CS monument is.

What is there to boycott ?

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

bob 125th nysvi
07-13-2009, 08:37 PM
After legislative due prcess it was moved and is now flown over a CS monument on aother part of the capitol property.

I have said before I am not a CS flag flier nor support its use on public property outside of the appropriate historical context. The top of the Capitol is not the proper historical context to my eye. Over a CS monument is.

What is there to boycott ?

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

in this debate. You've got to be kidding right?

Ever try telling someone of African descent that their ancestors were sold to Europeans by other Africans and they'll look at you like you had two heads, maybe three.

I remember seeing a special done at a historical site in Africa, I think in Guinea, that happened to have been one of the last operating slave camps on the continent. The guides were talking about how they couldn't get visiting African-Americans to believe them when they told them that slavery in Africa pre-dates Rome and continued at this camp until about 1905 and that it was other Africans selling Africans to all comers.

That's NOT what the visiting African-Americans wanted to hear. It didn't fit into their mythology that ONLY white Europeans were responsible for slavery.

If you can't acknowledge facts HOW are you ever going to apply reason?

Radar
07-14-2009, 05:17 AM
Right on brother. On a rare occaision, I have run into the same road block at a reenactment. It's not just African American, it's everybody, but a lot of US blacks want to make it all the white folks fault, no one else. They don't believe other blacks and Native Americans also had slave.

Ongoing story, sadly.





in this debate. You've got to be kidding right?

Ever try telling someone of African descent that their ancestors were sold to Europeans by other Africans and they'll look at you like you had two heads, maybe three.

I remember seeing a special done at a historical site in Africa, I think in Guinea, that happened to have been one of the last operating slave camps on the continent. The guides were talking about how they couldn't get visiting African-Americans to believe them when they told them that slavery in Africa pre-dates Rome and continued at this camp until about 1905 and that it was other Africans selling Africans to all comers.

That's NOT what the visiting African-Americans wanted to hear. It didn't fit into their mythology that ONLY white Europeans were responsible for slavery.

If you can't acknowledge facts HOW are you ever going to apply reason?

tompritchett
07-14-2009, 08:44 AM
Oh yeah... shouldn't you be moderating yourself with your present day political post.

Flag and Statue issues are one area of modern political discussions that have always been allowed on this forum - but only in the Flags & Statues Conference. Hence its name.

It is modern political disucssions that have no relation to the reenacting or remembrance of the Civil War that are banned.

agrnbrt
07-14-2009, 06:56 PM
Fritz & Bob...amen.
I have always got a good laugh at all of the blacks who want to be muslims just for that reason. I love the look one gets when you try to explain that the arab muslims were the primary suppliers of blacks to slave traders. Heck they are still doing it today. Gotta love revisionist history and pc correctness.

dale beasley
07-15-2009, 08:55 AM
Fritz & Bob...amen.
I have always got a good laugh at all of the blacks who want to be muslims just for that reason. I love the look one gets when you try to explain that the arab muslims were the primary suppliers of blacks to slave traders. Heck they are still doing it today. Gotta love revisionist history and pc correctness.

I once talked to a very close friend of mine who is muslim, she says that the largest recruiting tool for black muslims is the prision system...I can't be quoted on that but she sounded like she knew what she was talking about....and it makes sence.

Regular DOC
07-15-2009, 11:52 AM
Here is my thoughts on the boycott.

Does anyone honestly think that the average baseball player at the college level really cares about a flag miles away from where they are playing? My bet probably not. I would be willing to bet until they were told by their proffessors most would not have even known there was a Confederate flag on the Capitol grounds. I would be willing to bet this entire flap can be traced back to the Academic Elite at the ACC schools making a problem where really none exsisted.

packrat
07-15-2009, 12:22 PM
I can't see the flag in Columbia from my house, but I can see the Ball Park where the event was to be played...... Interesting note there are large chains of beachwear stores from Fla.to N.Y. that are owned by folks from and in the Middle East who fly the flag on a daily basis, and sell them to people from the mid-west and the north to fly them any where they want . And they fly next to the Elvis and Bob Marley flags and oh yea! the Give up the Booty pirate flags , nobody seems to boycott these guys and the Federal Gov. supports them and they get special business treatment as well....It seems to be all about the money, which makes the world go round, which is the root of all evil, which is one of my favorite Pink Floyd tunes, which is what some lawyer has told some one that they deserve because of what someone did to someone else a hundred or so years ago as long as the lawyer gets his seventy percent so he can go on vacation with his family and buy a flag to hang in his game room .........

sbl
07-15-2009, 12:23 PM
"proffessors "


Yeah Brian, Smart people aren't real Americans are they.

Geeeze!

Regular DOC
07-15-2009, 01:16 PM
"proffessors "


Yeah Brian, Smart people aren't real Americans are they.

Geeeze!


It has nothing to do with smart people being real Americans or not real Americans. It is about people making a big deal about something when the people in question namley the ball players probably weren't offended till they were told they should be offended. It makes the academics feel good about themselves to satisfy some guilt trip they have. Making them feel enlightened cause they took down those big bad white rednecks. As I said most of the ball players could probably care less.

sbl
07-15-2009, 02:19 PM
You seem like you have a grudge with professors and that you know the minds of ball players. Come on..... "Academic Elite?"

agrnbrt
07-15-2009, 03:29 PM
I once talked to a very close friend of mine who is muslim, she says that the largest recruiting tool for black muslims is the prision system...I can't be quoted on that but she sounded like she knew what she was talking about....and it makes sence.

Take my word for it. Your friend is right.

FloridaConfederate
07-15-2009, 04:35 PM
Well wherever the tourney is played lets hope the President doesn't throw out the first pitch.

Dude throws like a girl.

I would love to see his alleged basketball prowess. Most men who are accomplished basketball players could successfully throw a baseball from the pitchers mound and make it to home plate.


Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

sbl
07-15-2009, 04:40 PM
It's self defense for different groups of prisoners.

This is just Florida.....

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/gangs/prison.html


Even "Odinists." I figured there would just be Onanism in prison.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/03/20/white-supremacist-running-holy-nation-of-odin-from-maximum-security-prison/

sbl
07-15-2009, 04:44 PM
I would love to see his alleged basketball prowess. Most men who are accomplished basketball players could successfully throw a baseball from the pitchers mound and make it to home plate.


Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Check it out Chris.... you be the judge. I always thought that if baseball was any slower it'd be farming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j87k1j4CpOw

sbl
07-15-2009, 04:49 PM
Let's see that pitch......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p30OlSK28Ug

josie wales
07-15-2009, 05:13 PM
Well wherever the tourney is played lets hope the President doesn't throw out the first pitch.

Dude throws like a girl.

I would love to see his alleged basketball prowess. Most men who are accomplished basketball players could successfully throw a baseball from the pitchers mound and make it to home plate.


Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

C, "Throws like a girl ?"...... both my girls could out pitch his weenie @&&....so, lets not dis' the girls....throws like a twit........... at age 58....I'd take him "one-on-one" tonight and spot him two to eleven in the paint or from the trey, Respectfully and with all admiration, JW

sbl
07-15-2009, 05:27 PM
Well, we aren't paying him to pitch are we.

This will all get "moderated" soon.

FloridaConfederate
07-15-2009, 05:28 PM
Let's see that pitch......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p30OlSK28Ug


Ah Ha ! Even has to spin his pitch...your video has been edited to not really show the pitch and it sounds like a crowd sound track behind it..

here is the unedited pitch didnt even make it to home plate thus the edit :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PrbQv8eEw

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

FloridaConfederate
07-15-2009, 05:32 PM
Well, we aren't paying him to pitch are we.

This will all get "moderated" soon.

Moderated ? Why ?

It isnt political discussion... its baseball and the fact he throws like a girl.

If GWB threw like a girl I would laugh my arse off too..

But he dont...see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631knZM9Uiw

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

sbl
07-15-2009, 05:37 PM
Intellectually dishonest Chris. You know, I know, and you know that I know and expect me to smile.

Save it for the base.

FloridaConfederate
07-15-2009, 05:48 PM
Intellectually dishonest Chris. You know, I know, and you know that I know and expect me to smile.

Save it for the base.


Please Scott. If perhaps you had but one minuscule of a shred of credibility with regards to intellectual dishonesty and politics.

Look I recognize the adminstration, the media and the left are not used to any type of questioning, judgment or poking fun at the President. Get over it. This protective immunity is a rarity in our society. Levity at Presidential blunders is historically rooted and American as Apple pie and baseball !

Now lighten your corset a notch and run along unstick those pages of your period underwear illustrations.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Regular DOC
07-15-2009, 05:50 PM
You seem like you have a grudge with professors and that you know the minds of ball players. Come on..... "Academic Elite?"

I have had the pleasure of not having elites in college I have had professors. Granted several of them were military but they were still teaching not giving me their indoctrination. No I have a grudge against people who don't teach they indoctrinate. And yes Academic Elite. The same type that inhabit the halls of many Ivy league universities who look down on us un edumacted folks from the backwoods of NH or Georgia or Alabama. The same type who still to this day have not said they were sorry for condemning 3 Duke Lacrosse players who were railroaded. The same type who compare the World Trade Center victims to Nazi's. The ones who have little experiance outside of the halls of Academia yet say they know best what is for the world. The same who live in million dollar homes in Durham NH and talk about Social Justice while they lift their noses to those of us who are not in their social click and would never dare allow one of their Liberal feel good projects such as a homeless shelter to go up in their neighborhood. Those Acdemic Elites much like the ones working in Washington DC. If these athletes really cared there would be no African American playing for an SC team.

Regular DOC
07-15-2009, 06:04 PM
My Fathers Cousin, the former Governor of South Carolina...pretty much lost is job due to this flag issue. If the SCV could focus on anything else, they might would give off a bit creditibility to folks who are just tired of hearing of the "same ole cause"

Dale Beasley

Dale I agree but it goes both ways. Surely the NAACP have more important things to worry about like the 50% dropout rate among African American males. All this silly fuss of a piece of cloth over a memorial.

sbl
07-15-2009, 06:14 PM
Wow...you went there. From Florida through a computer screen.

sbl
07-15-2009, 06:18 PM
Dale I agree but it goes both ways. Surely the NAACP have more important things to worry about like the 50% dropout rate among African American males. All this silly fuss of a piece of cloth over a memorial.

I guess they've been worrying about it for a while...


http://www.naacp.org/about/resources/publications/education_call_to_actn_2.pdf

Regular DOC
07-15-2009, 06:27 PM
I guess they've been worrying about it for a while...


http://www.naacp.org/about/resources/publications/education_call_to_actn_2.pdf

So why do they suppport candidates who want to end school voucher programs which taking Inner city kids from failing public schools getting them to successful charter and private schools?

sbl
07-15-2009, 06:36 PM
I can't tell you Brian, I just see that they are concerned nationally about the real problem that you stated. Perhaps it's the South Carolina chapter of the NAACP that is concerned with the flag issue in South Carolina.

FloridaConfederate
07-15-2009, 06:51 PM
Wow...you went there. From Florida through a computer screen.

Please make yourself clear ? I still think you overreacting to some harmeless fun ole chap.

It would seem you're saying I only posted this because of geographic separation and I wouldnt say thst to your face. You dont really think that is the case do you ?

But you know the internets leves out inflection and non-verbal clues.

GWB pronounced nuclear goofy as all get out...see.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

sbl
07-15-2009, 07:23 PM
The "I was only funnin'!" ploy.

Just sayin'.

FloridaConfederate
07-15-2009, 08:11 PM
Scooter,

If the corset and illustration jab has got you (you of all people) so worked up you would have been hard pressed to make it in the Civil War, modern military or around any campfire that I have ever laid upon in ACW reenacting with the constant ribbing and prankstering of pards. I am sorry ;(

But in the spirit of you only pick on the ones you love...perhaps you should re-read it and think about some of things you have posted and the totality of it all. But I am as sure as pure that you've been wearing the letters off the alert button for saying the President throws like a girl. But then again it would be so "you know who" if you could really play it up and seek revenge through media censors = TP who I am sure will be equally as insulted and mortified at the mere suggestion of this / his / your President doing anything human or anything however innocent, benign, remotely unmanly or quite frankly un-Godlike.

Have a good night and perhaps a cup of chamomile tea.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

tompritchett
07-15-2009, 08:46 PM
Gentlemen, let's remember that this thread is about an issue related to the SC's dispay of the Confederate Flag and not about the relative pitching abilities of the various Presidents. The former topic does have some relation to the Civil War (remembrance of the sacrifices soldiers made for a cause they believed in while the latter topic has nothing to do with the Civil War at all.

Regular DOC
07-16-2009, 06:59 AM
It seems to be all about the money, which makes the world go round



More then you know. Both the NAACP and SCV are using the flag issue as a fund raising rally cry. Ban the flag(send money) Save the Flag(send money) Both are spinning up the troops keeping the flag in the news so people will dump money into their coffers. I didn't even know there was still an issue until the ACC boycott came out.

tompritchett
07-16-2009, 09:11 AM
Gentlemen, let's remember that this thread is about an issue related to the SC's dispay of the Confederate Flag and not about the relative pitching abilities of the various Presidents. The former topic does have some relation to the Civil War (remembrance of the sacrifices soldiers made for a cause they believed in while the latter topic has nothing to do with the Civil War at all.

Scott, Chris, et al. As Scott just learned, I am indeed serious about this request and will delete any further discussion along the relative atheletic abilities of any of our modern Presidents (discussion of Lincoln's or Davis's abilities, if known would be allowable) as that topic does not even have the slightest tad of a relationship to the Civil War.

reb64
07-16-2009, 07:35 PM
"God bless South Carolina for standing their ground!"



I don't think any god wastes his or her time.

The statement should say" may God bless", a invocation for God's blessing for having courage and conviction. whats wrong with that?

sbl
07-16-2009, 08:15 PM
Go ahead..... why the heck not!

Bring a religion of peace and love into a fight about flags.

FloridaConfederate
07-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Scott, Chris, et al. As Scott just learned, I am indeed serious about this request and will delete any further discussion along the relative atheletic abilities of any of our modern Presidents (discussion of Lincoln's or Davis's abilities, if known would be allowable) as that topic does not even have the slightest tad of a relationship to the Civil War.

Tom I know nothing will stop you from censoring my posts in a flash, especially if I post anything which remotely paints your president in a negative light, however innocent. I am cool with this. Censor away.

But to throw out irrelevance to the Civil War as your point of order in light of the byte after byte of irrelevant nonsense that is posted here daily and left unchecked is pretty inconsistent.

Now thats okay its your beat, but true respect and ability to moderate other's behaviors is predicated on being a good leader. I know from your posts regarding your unit, competent leadership is valuable commodity to you. Being a good leader is predicated on being consistent.

So lets not say you are going to censor me because the vid I posted as levity in a thread regarding baseball isn't Civil War related.

But rather....

Say you didn't appreciate the post making light of your elected official in particular his pitching prowess (I still can't get over how worked up this made some) nor can you stand me, then censor away.

Anytime you wish to show me the door, flip me a PM and I am gone.

Good night.


Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

tompritchett
07-17-2009, 06:39 AM
Tom I know nothing will stop you from censoring my posts in a flash, especially if I post anything which remotely paints your president in a negative light, however innocent. I am cool with this. Censor away.

But to throw out irrelevance to the Civil War as your point of order in light of the byte after byte of irrelevant nonsense that is posted here daily and left unchecked is pretty inconsistent.

I would like to make a couple of points in reply.

1) I left all the prior post standing and did not delete any. I just asked that the discussion stop as it involved modern political figures in a manner than had nothing to do with the CW. Had you been criticizing actions he was taking in regards to preservation or the NPS, the discussions would have been allowed to continue.

2) You will notice that, because of Alerts and comments, the WW II threads are now being closed upon posting (exception the memorial)

3) The only post that has actually been deleted so far in relation to the athletic abilities of the modern Presidents was made by Scott, an Obama supporter. Needless to say he was not happy about that fact and made his displeasure known to me via a PM. BTW, if it will make you happy, I will readily concede that Obama pitching arm is such that he would never be the starting pitcher or outfielder on a White House softball team (I doubt that he would even be able to play SS or 3B) but that concession has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

4) As much as I disliked the policies of the previous administration, once I became moderator down here and we starting enforcing the "no modern political discussion" rule after the resignation of SGT Pepper, I also quickly shut down threads and deleted posts that criticized any actions, decisions, and/or policies of that administration. There are several members of this forum who, while I may have agreed with their sentiment, made such deletions and edits. However that is my word against your perception because only the Provost and I can see all the deletions.

5) Threads that start to dwell on modern political subjects have a tendency to get out of control with people hurling insults at each other generating hard feelings. You were just in the very middle of one of those discussions in the Military Discussion conference, a discussion that apparently was resurrected from an earlier and much uglier discussion on the AC. As much as possible I want to nip such food fights off at the bud before things can get ugly, as they have done in the past both here and at the AC. Since you have been in the middle of such ugly discussions in the past and have actually received threats of physical violence as the results of such discussions, I would think that you could understand my desire to be proactive here to prevent arguments from reaching that level of negative emotions.

FloridaConfederate
07-17-2009, 07:10 AM
I will respect and give you the last word as Moderator.

I have told you before and I mean it...it is not personal and I would be pleased to share a fire with you at any event.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

CheeseBoxRaft
07-17-2009, 09:12 PM
tompritchett: ...the athletic abilities of the modern Presidents was made by Scott, an Obama supporter.

OK, Mr. Moderator, let me ask you this. If there are no "political discussions" on this forum why must any of us be told what the political leanings of another forum member are as YOU have just done in this instance? Sure, its no secret who sbl voted for, but come on... By doing so you just used politics to make a point, violated your own rule, and basically proven you can't practice what you preach.

Not that I'm coming to sbl's defense, mind you. I despise him.

Just sayin' :roll:

sbl
07-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Wow! Me or President Obama?

sbl
07-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Hey Chris, I have more than 20 years of reenacting behind me with good people and good units. Hope you can say the same when you're my age.

reb64
07-18-2009, 07:50 PM
More then you know. Both the NAACP and SCV are using the flag issue as a fund raising rally cry. Ban the flag(send money) Save the Flag(send money) Both are spinning up the troops keeping the flag in the news so people will dump money into their coffers. I didn't even know there was still an issue until the ACC boycott came out.


The SCV is super undefunded and dont have the numbers or muscle to counter the political correctness and attacks on all things Confederate. They are fighting to keep the symbols and history of the soldiers of the civil war kept in their proper perspective, while the other group wants to associate them with evil. What can men do in the face of such biasl except fight back with the little resources they have. The SCV does not exploit the flag issue for money, they only counter.

Regular DOC
07-19-2009, 06:02 PM
The SCV is super undefunded and dont have the numbers or muscle to counter the political correctness and attacks on all things Confederate. They are fighting to keep the symbols and history of the soldiers of the civil war kept in their proper perspective, while the other group wants to associate them with evil. What can men do in the face of such biasl except fight back with the little resources they have. The SCV does not exploit the flag issue for money, they only counter.

Unfair Unjust how. Regardless of their size with all the things the SCV can focus on , battlefield preservation, artifact restoration, eductaion, it seems silly to me to focus all that PR and effort on a flag which could be moved off capital grounds without doing anything to it's historical context. Heck buy a private plot of land nearby and reerect the memorial. Seems like an easier solution to me. Now to be balanced with all the issues facing the african-american community focuing their attention on a flag that most African-Americans probably didn't know was there until they saw it on the news and were told to be offended. Heck most Americans probably didn't know it was there until they saw it on the news. They actually give more publicity to the flag then if they just gave up on the issue.

reb64
07-19-2009, 10:13 PM
Unfair Unjust how. Regardless of their size with all the things the SCV can focus on , battlefield preservation, artifact restoration, eductaion, it seems silly to me to focus all that PR and effort on a flag which could be moved off capital grounds without doing anything to it's historical context. Heck buy a private plot of land nearby and reerect the memorial. Seems like an easier solution to me. Now to be balanced with all the issues facing the african-american community focuing their attention on a flag that most African-Americans probably didn't know was there until they saw it on the news and were told to be offended. Heck most Americans probably didn't know it was there until they saw it on the news. They actually give more publicity to the flag then if they just gave up on the issue.


Just cave in, triple compromise? This is what the founders did? the flag was moved and now they want more, there is no compromise, they want capitualtion.

Regular DOC
07-20-2009, 05:01 AM
Just cave in, triple compromise? This is what the founders did? the flag was moved and now they want more, there is no compromise, they want capitualtion.


Move it where they moved it from the top of the Capital but it is still on Capital grounds. Both sides of this fight are tipping at windmills. If either had just said I have more important things to worry about this would be a mute issue. Instead both sides give the other a rally cry that can beused to can press and money. Is it truly Capitualtion on the side of SCv to move it off Cpaital grounds? Likewise is it truly Capitualtion for the other side to let it stay? Answer to both no. Cause by fighting the fight both side benefits the other.

Pvt Schnapps
07-20-2009, 07:39 AM
More then you know. Both the NAACP and SCV are using the flag issue as a fund raising rally cry. Ban the flag(send money) Save the Flag(send money) Both are spinning up the troops keeping the flag in the news so people will dump money into their coffers. I didn't even know there was still an issue until the ACC boycott came out.

I just had to check out the latest tiff over the battle-flag and stumbled across these words of wisdom.

Politically, Brian and I probably disagree about a lot, but this to me pretty much sums up the issue.

These organizations are private bureaucracies, and the fact that they originated from some noble cause does not in any way exempt them from the pathologies of other bureaucracies, one of which is getting hysteric about perceived threats in order to generate interest and revenue.

If they weren't on opposite sides of this issue, they'd find another, and if they couldn't do that, they'd probably get together on the sly to ask each other for ideas.

The SCV is beginning to sound more and more like MoveOn for flag fetishists.

FloridaConfederate
07-20-2009, 02:57 PM
The SCV is beginning to sound more and more like MoveOn for flag fetishists.

Actually..the SCV demonstrated an ability to compromise in the relocation of the flag to the more appropriate CS memorial site on the captiol grounds. Unlike the NAACP, the SCV wasn't the one boycotting events nor mad it policy out to bring economic harm to the state of South Carolina by getting in the way of revenue generating sporting and other tourist events when they were not successful in addressing their grievances through the legislative process nor willing to compromise.

I am in no way a SCV defender but you have leveled, yet again, excoriations against the SCV that the record and reality don't support. Then again that never stopped you before and you have eaten your own words on this very board arising from this behavior.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

FloridaConfederate
07-20-2009, 04:35 PM
removal of deleted material - THP

If that is how you wish to marginalize what I posted in an effort to redirect away from (twice now) you posting things about the SCV when the facts reveal you really don't know what you are talking about, then okay.

Now if you want to discuss SCV retards who don't know their facts either and / or the revisionist mindset found amongst a subset of CS reencators, predominantly mainstreamers, then lets fire up a new thread.

But until then..... the facts remain someone used this issue which was previously and lawfully settled through the same legislative process in which we all must abide and a compromise was met to place the flag in a more historically appropriate setting. That wasnt good enough and an unnamed group (hmmmmm) then used the issue to bring economic harm to the state.

How many black South Carolinians make their wages and tips in the restaurants, hotels and businesses supporting these events they boycott ?

I guess a 15 second sound byte in the 24 hr modern news cycle and 70 odd posts on this forum were worth it.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Pvt Schnapps
07-20-2009, 07:57 PM
If that is how you wish to marginalize what I posted in an effort to redirect away from (twice now) you posting things about the SCV when the facts reveal you really don't know what you are talking about, then okay.

Now if you want to discuss SCV retards who don't know their facts either and / or the revisionist mindset found amongst a subset of CS reencators, predominantly mainstreamers, then lets fire up a new thread.

But until then..... the facts remain someone used this issue which was previously and lawfully settled through the same legislative process in which we all must abide and a compromise was met to place the flag in a more historically appropriate setting. That wasnt good enough and an unnamed group (hmmmmm) then used the issue to bring economic harm to the state.

How many black South Carolinians make their wages and tips in the restaurants, hotels and businesses supporting these events they boycott ?

I guess a 15 second sound byte in the 24 hr modern news cycle and 70 odd posts on this forum were worth it.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

My original quote made fun of your opinion that the SCV had proved its superiority to the NAACP by not calling a boycott of South Carolina. Although my original post disappeared, you more or less repeat the same claim, as well as the claim that the SCV "compromised" about the flag.

The funny thing about both those statements is the idea that the SCV had any choice in the matter. That organization has no power to decide what does or doesn't get displayed over a state capitol -- it's a private organization. It had no right, authority, or say-so over a public facility in the first place. It "compromised" only in surrendering an untenable position.

Similarly, I'm sure my comment about the SCV boycotting South Carolina sounded like nasty satire because the prospect is so far-fetched. But is it my fault that it sounds ridiculous, or that of the SCV? If the SCV did declare the boycott you praise it for refraining from, it would only backfire because it has done such an abysmal job of making any point that passes the laugh test with its fellow citizens. Far fewer people would obey such a boycott than would break it just because of the sponsoring organization.

And that's not because of anything I've said. That's because of what that organization done to itself, in part by getting hysteric over "heritage violations" involving a historic artifact.

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 06:23 AM
Third times a charm.

Once again you don't know what you are talking about...but it sounds cool and makes you stand out as the anti-Reb. So as long as it fulfills a psychological need for you, I am here for you.

Factually, your assertion is blind to any reference of the extensive efforts of SCV lobbyists (led by Chris Sullivan) in working with legislators, w/ NAACP representatives at the table, to come up with alternatives to the NAACP calling for total removal of any reference to the CS or display of its symbolism on public property in South Carolina. This matter was not settled without the affected parties' and public input. The NAACP was not satisfied with anything less than total ban and have made good on their threat of economic warfare against the state.

With regards to your hypothesis on the perceived impotence of a similar boycott on the part of Southerners rallying to bring harm to South Carolina's economic growth, I can only speak from my direct experience in saying that folks imbued with traditional Southern values are far more active in the political process, voting and are willing to make whatever required lifestyle changes and sacrifices to support their belief systems. However they live under the rule of law, rather than embark on a course of economic warfare when they don’t get their way.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Pvt Schnapps
07-21-2009, 07:47 AM
Third times a charm.

Once again you don't know what you are talking about...but it sounds cool and makes you stand out as the anti-Reb. So as long as it fulfills a psychological need for you, I am here for you.

Factually, your assertion is blind to any reference of the extensive efforts of SCV lobbyists (led by Chris Sullivan) in working with legislators, w/ NAACP representatives at the table, to come up with alternatives to the NAACP calling for total removal of any reference to the CS or display of its symbolism on public property in South Carolina. This matter was not settled without the affected parties' and public input. The NAACP was not satisfied with anything less than total ban and have made good on their threat of economic warfare against the state.

With regards to your hypothesis on the perceived impotence of a similar boycott on the part of Southerners rallying to bring harm to South Carolina's economic growth, I can only speak from my direct experience in saying that folks imbued with traditional Southern values are far more active in the political process, voting and are willing to make whatever required lifestyle changes and sacrifices to support their belief systems. However they live under the rule of law, rather than embark on a course of economic warfare when they don’t get their way.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Chris, the SCV efforts you describe just underscore its lack of real power, authority, or popularity. Like the ancestors it purports to "honor" it picked a fight it couldn't win and now you lament the loss without even trying to figure out why and how it happened.

You also conflate "folks imbued with traditional Southern values" with membership in the SCV. This disingenuously puffs the SCV and overlooks the fact that, if most "folks imbued with traditional Southern values" agreed with it, it wouldn't be mired in marginal fights and losing them to organizations like the NAACP.

By the way, a boycott is not contrary to "the rule of law." It's anyone's right -- perhaps not as traditional a "southern right" as owning someone, but a right nonetheless.

I'm not "anti-Reb" by any means. I just find something grotesque in the way the battle flag gets recycled for purposes it was never intended to serve by people with no special right or claim to it.

dale beasley
07-21-2009, 08:20 AM
"It doesn't take a weather man to tell you which way the wind blows"-says Bob Dylan, and it is clear that the SCV needs to go back and re-modify the foxhole.

There is a reason why the SCV and "The Cause " aren’t meeting success, and that reason is …The product that they produce is not being taken back and filtered out to the membership. And why is that ? Because, “The Tee-Shirt , just doesn’t fit anymore”

“The Flag” that is so fought over, is it the flag that your ancestors fought under? A few of mine did. The ones in the Army of Northern Virginia did. The ones that fought under Cleburne and Forrest did not. Think about this…If I served in the 18th AIRBORNE CORP in the Iraqi War and I did two days a week and for three weeks in November 2004, why on earth would I want to rally around a flag that I did not serve under…i.e. 4th Infantry Division?

People who are driven to the extent of boycott, usually have a different agenda than the ones that they are proclaiming.

BTW...the NAACP has lost alot of creditibility as well. Just ask some of its older members. They aren'y producing a product of "Change" as our Commander in Chief preaches...

Bottom line: Sons of Confederate Veterans…go back and re-modify your foxhole. Put a new product on the street, your current plan is going nowhere…much like this thread. Please forgive my spelling and gramer, I am really pushed at work this morning...

OK…I hear the mortar rounds coming in.

Dale Beasley


"Go home and teach your sons to be Americans"--General Robert E. Lee

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 08:55 AM
[QUOTE=Pvt Schnapps;124623]Chris, the SCV efforts you describe just underscore its lack of real power, authority, or popularity. Like the ancestors it purports to "honor" it picked a fight it couldn't win and now you lament the loss without even trying to figure out why and how it happened.

Schnapper this is silly. A compromise was met that serves history well and removes the CS flag from the dominant position on the state capitol. There is no power or authority at play, it was working within the legal system in SC. One side wanted total banishment and lived up to their threat to begin economic terrorism against the state of SC when legally it didn’t come to pass. Why do you insist on using emotional hot words such as lament, loss and calling into question how one honors its ancestors. Wait I know the answer to that.

You also conflate "folks imbued with traditional Southern values" with membership in the SCV. This disingenuously puffs the SCV and overlooks the fact that, if most "folks imbued with traditional Southern values" agreed with it, it wouldn't be mired in marginal fights and losing them to organizations like the NAACP.


This is matter of opinion. I am of the opinion that Southerners would come to rally over their heritage more effectively in the form of a boycott than other demographics using their heritage as a means of perpetuating a continual environment of inequality. However, they don't have to as again a compromise was brought about, yet you place NAACP as victor and SCV as loser when the SCV worked for and has lived by the compromise and the NAACP didn't.


By the way, a boycott is not contrary to "the rule of law." It's anyone's right -- perhaps not as traditional a "southern right" as owning someone, but a right nonetheless.

This demonstrates again your propensity to throw out slights as agent provocateur and to suggest I am somehow clinging to the right of chattel slavery by virtue of my geographical origin and the stand I make against your unsupported attacks on groups and issues which have been proven you really have no clue about.

I'm not "anti-Reb" by any means. I just find something grotesque in the way the battle flag gets recycled for purposes it was never intended to serve by people with no special right or claim to it.

But see the SCV has nothing to do with thread topic, is not mentioned or the boycotting of an unrelated sporting event..you added the SCV part, like you usually do, but had your facts waaaaay wrong. Its okay. I like it. I'll be your huckleberry... you be my Rachel Maddow.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Pvt Schnapps
07-21-2009, 09:30 AM
I am of the opinion that Southerners would come to rally over their heritage more effectively in the form of a boycott than other demographics using their heritage as a means of perpetuating a continual environment of inequality.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

This raises two questions: First, how?

Second, are you really defining "Southerners" as a "demographic" exclusive of the black southerners (and, for that matter, the white southerners) the NAACP represents in the current scrap?

If so, further questions come to mind, like where on earth do you get the right to define "Southerner" as a demographic in the first place, and do you realize that black people have been "Southerners" since 1619?

PS -- Dale, Chris will get to you after he drops a few more smoke shells on these coordinates. :)

plankmaker
07-21-2009, 10:07 AM
Just thought I'd muddy the water a bit more. This is the current fight going on around here regarding who can be honored in the local veterans parks. This is the latest take on how Cornfeds are to be memorialized. You have to remember that this is considered to be a southern State. However, many of the localities were not willing members of the CSA. The SCV is doing its best to spin this, however, they tend to get shot down because most of them aren't actually from this area and tend to ignore the actual history of burnings, lynchings, and shootings. Some of the actions (see Zollicoffer) were on the fringe of terrorist acts in modern terms.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

The Confederate issue rises again in Jonesborough
By Heather Richardson
Press Staff Writer
hrichardson@johnsoncitypress.com

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Email Article

Though the Jonesborough Board of Mayor and Aldermen recently amended its Veterans Memorial Park policy to allow veterans who fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War to be memorialized in the park some Confederate descendants are still not happy with the policy.
The park’s original policy provided that only veterans who served in the United States military from the Revolutionary War to the present could be memorialized in the park. The policy did not consider those who fought for the Confederacy to be United States soldiers.

At its July meeting the board approved amendments to the policy recommended by the Veterans Affairs Committee. The policy now allows bricks for Confederate soldiers to be placed in the park. Those bricks, however, will not designate whether the veteran fought for the Union or for the Confederacy. They will simply be marked “Civil War.”

Joe Adkins, who was a leader in having the policy changed, said he is “deeply saddened” by the committee’s and board’s decision to not specify for which side of the Civil War the soldiers fought.

“A month ago, I thought that Jonesborough had taken a significant step forward toward embracing its history and heritage,” Adkins said. “Now they’ve taken a giant leap backward. Mayor Kelly Wolfe’s statement that this decision ‘recognizes both sides of that war’ is pure political bull manure. The fact is it recognized neither side.”

Adkins believes the town is omitting the most basic historical details.

“That the Civil War and the Confederacy are part of Jonesborough’s history is an undeniable fact,” Adkins said.

Though much of East Tennessee was pro-Union during the Civil War, it was part of the Confederacy for almost four years. That, Adkins said, is part of Jonesborough’s history.

“The town can deny its history and heritage all it wants, but the facts remain: history is what it is. To pick and choose historical facts, such as Jonesborough is doing, is a dangerous action in a nation that values truth, freedom, equality and justice.”

Sons of Confederate Veterans Brigade Commander David Roberts agrees that the town’s revised policy is inadequate stating that “to not designate either side on a brick is not acceptable to an ancestor who fought in that war.”

Roberts said he does not believe the town’s decision was based on what is best for the town but rather it was an attempt to “sweep history under the rug” and to calm the voices of those opposing the original policy.

“It’s just modern day political correctness run amuck,” Roberts said. “That’s all that is going on down there right now.”

Veterans Affairs Committee Chairman Marion Light could not be reached Monday afternoon for comment.

Mayor Kelly Wolfe is sticking by the decision made by the committee and the board and said he believes it reflects the best interests of most everyone involved.

“We have spent a great deal of time dealing with this controversy and have tried our best to be accommodating to both sides of the issue,“ Wolfe said.

Wolfe said he has spoken to numerous people who were concerned that Confederate soldiers were not being represented and said they are now satisfied with the town’s resolution.

“As is the case with most issues in politics you are never going to make everyone completely happy,” Wolfe said. “I believe our resolution was the correct one and I applaud our Veterans Affairs Committee.”

Regular DOC
07-21-2009, 10:37 AM
Schnapper this is silly. A compromise was met that serves history well and removes the CS flag from the dominant position on the state capitol. There is no power or authority at play, it was working within the legal system in SC. One side wanted total banishment and lived up to their threat to begin economic terrorism against the state of SC when legally it didn’t come to pass. Why do you insist on using emotional hot words such as lament, loss and calling into question how one honors its ancestors. Wait I know the answer to that.
This is matter of opinion. I am of the opinion that Southerners would come to rally over their heritage more effectively in the form of a boycott than other demographics using their heritage as a means of perpetuating a continual environment of inequality. However, they don't have to as again a compromise was brought about, yet you place NAACP as victor and SCV as loser when the SCV worked for and has lived by the compromise and the NAACP didn't.


This demonstrates again your propensity to throw out slights as agent provocateur and to suggest I am somehow clinging to the right of chattel slavery by virtue of my geographical origin and the stand I make against your unsupported attacks on groups and issues which have been proven you really have no clue about.



But see the SCV has nothing to do with thread topic, is not mentioned or the boycotting of an unrelated sporting event..you added the SCV part, like you usually do, but had your facts waaaaay wrong. Its okay. I like it. I'll be your huckleberry... you be my Rachel Maddow.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Actually he didn't bring up the SCV others did. Now back to his original post you seemedd to have missed the point of my original post which was the fact that both sides of this issue are making the proverbial mountain out of a mole hill. While both sides have better things that they could be concentrating their efforts and political capitol on they would rather fight gnats while up to their butts in aligators. Why do they do this cause it rallys the faithful gets press and brings money into their coffers.

Here is an idea let the NAACP erect a monument on Capitol grounds to the USCT units who faught since many of the soldiers were from South Carolina.

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 12:49 PM
This raises two questions: First, how?

Second, are you really defining "Southerners" as a "demographic" exclusive of the black southerners (and, for that matter, the white southerners) the NAACP represents in the current scrap?

If so, further questions come to mind, like where on earth do you get the right to define "Southerner" as a demographic in the first place

Mike nice try. Your little Kieth Olbermann-like word farkery wont cut it under honest scrutiny.

You know what I am exactly saying...I define Southerners as those born in the South and raised with traditional Southern values rooted in God, Family, State and Nation coupled with a core value of fierce independence and personal responsibility / accountability. More times than not, true Southern values are represented in black families and communities more so than than other groups.

So rather than spin towards me personally why not take a stab to support your former assertions that I have shown time and again are bogus ? Or is it that too hard and just inferring I am racist is the road easier traveled ?


Chris Rideout
Tamap, Florida

Ross L. Lamoreaux
07-21-2009, 12:54 PM
Actually he didn't bring up the SCV others did. Now back to his original post you seemedd to have missed the point of my original post which was the fact that both sides of this issue are making the proverbial mountain out of a mole hill. While both sides have better things that they could be concentrating their efforts and political capitol on they would rather fight gnats while up to their butts in aligators. Why do they do this cause it rallys the faithful gets press and brings money into their coffers.

Here is an idea let the NAACP erect a monument on Capitol grounds to the USCT units who faught since many of the soldiers were from South Carolina.

The problem with that is that it makes sense. The NAACP, just like the SCV at times, is all about image and not about substance. Their agenda isn't to honor, it is to self-promote...

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 01:01 PM
Just thought I'd muddy the water a bit more.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

Mark we had a gentleman's agreement that we wouldn't post in each other threads or respond to each others posts. This is twice now you have disregarded our agreement and twice I have called you out directly on it. I wasn't the one who went to the mods riding the alert button seeking this arrangement. I stuck my hand out last week and you didn't acknowledge or return the gesture. Okay, that said.

On your topic:

This is one of the most patently retarded decisions I have read of pertaining to CS graves and the marking thereof. To mark the grave with the generic "Civil War" is moronic without identifying sides. The US Govt / NPS mark CS graves in Arlington and national and state cemeteries everywhere ?????? They have a program wherein they will provide a CS marker on the taxpayer dime to use in local cemeteries ????

At the risk of once again being labeled and cornered as an SCV defender (I am not even a member) to put this particular topic out as indication of misguided or extremist practices on behalf of the SCV is reaching for straws, no ?

This crap should be the exact focus of the SCV.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 01:14 PM
Now back to his original post you seemedd to have missed the point of my original post which was the fact that both sides of this issue are making the proverbial mountain out of a mole hill. While both sides have better things that they could be concentrating their efforts and political capitol on they would rather fight gnats while up to their butts in aligators. Why do they do this cause it rallys the faithful gets press and brings money into their coffers.

Here is an idea let the NAACP erect a monument on Capitol grounds to the USCT units who faught since many of the soldiers were from South Carolina.

Brian I didn't miss it I glossed it over as irrelevant..here is why:

"They" (Not just the SCV / NAACP but all organizations, heritage, political or otherwise) use the exploitation of issue(s) which fall within the scope of their charter to seek press and money to their coffers. This is how the world of 501.3c works. You previously site battlefield preservation, artifact preservation and other historical initiatives as better use of their time, funds and political capital. While I can agree, to do so ignorant of what the SCV has done in these areas already makes you seem like Shanapper and Plankmaker with that same old ax to grind.

I love to grind that ax on some SCV revisionist retards but the issue at hand and the criticism leveled against the SCV by the same few on this topic doesn't warrant it.

The SCV compromised a historically proper and duly sensitive resolution, the other side opted for economic terrorism against SC instead.

As to the monument to USCT soldier..all for it personally, wonder why the NAACP isn't ? Seems that the USCT did more to remove the yoke of slavery than they are given credit for by their own ethno-centric organization.


Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 01:34 PM
PS -- Dale, Chris will get to you after he drops a few more smoke shells on these coordinates. :)

There is no counter to Dale's lucid points.

Think Blue.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

plankmaker
07-21-2009, 01:49 PM
Chris,

I did respond to your PM where you said you were putting out your hand. For some reason, you either ignored it or decided it wasn't your cup of tea. I even offered some advise on finding a camping spot at BMS. You chose to ignore that as well. So be it.

All I was offereing is that there are different feelings regarding the CSA in various places. There are certain places around here who still harbor severe feelings regarding the CSA (Jonesboro and other area frequented by Andrew Johnson in particular). You might think it is retarded that people feel that way, but those feeling are deep seated and have festered for almost 150 years.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

P.S. Have fun at the race. I hope you didn't get stuck with seats in the bottom 20 rows.

Pvt Schnapps
07-21-2009, 02:05 PM
Mike nice try. Your little Kieth Olbermann-like word farkery wont cut it under honest scrutiny.

You know what I am exactly saying...I define Southerners as those born in the South and raised with traditional Southern values rooted in God, Family, State and Nation coupled with a core value of fierce independence and personal responsibility / accountability. More times than not, true Southern values are represented in black families and communities more so than than other groups.

So rather than spin towards me personally why not take a stab to support your former assertions that I have shown time and again are bogus ? Or is it that too hard and just inferring I am racist is the road easier traveled ?


Chris Rideout
Tamap, Florida

No Chris, I don't know exactly what you're saying, and I doubt that anyone could who actually tried to follow your sentences.

I am, for example, trying to reconcile your reference to Nation vs. State. I think some confusion on that count may have contributed to the late unpleasantness about which you post so much.

Thanks for trying to clarify exactly how tolerant you are, though, by inferring that you think there are some good, honest blacks out there. But this now raises the question of who exactly you had in mind when you wrote "other demographics." Didn't this all start with you kvetching about the NAACP?

And now I wonder how many other people born and raised in the South would actually meet your definition of "Southerner."

Here is a partial list of people I think might have trouble fitting into your idealized cutural self-conception:

William Faulkner
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Flannery O'Connor
Tennessee Williams
Martin Luther King
Rosa Parks
Johnny Winter
Louis Moreau Gottschalk
George Thomas
Judah Benjamin

...well, one could go on. And you will. :)

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 02:13 PM
Chris,

I did respond to your PM where you said you were putting out your hand. For some reason, you either ignored it or decided it wasn't your cup of tea.
Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN


No Mark you never acknowledged my outstretched hand. I just forwarded your response in PM back to you. Take a look..you lectured me on everything but the issue between us. Nothing reconciliatory at all.

I wont post my PM and your response here but you know where I will post it.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

plankmaker
07-21-2009, 02:15 PM
Chris,

Sometimes advise is hard when you don't realize someone is trying to reach back. Go right ahead and post them. I will also post the ones you have sent me previously. Good to see you taking the high road as always. Do you have stock in Chap Stick as well?

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

flattop32355
07-21-2009, 02:17 PM
...I define Southerners as those born in the South and raised with traditional Southern values rooted in God, Family, State and Nation coupled with a core value of fierce independence and personal responsibility / accountability.

Without taking a stand in the overall pissing contest, you touch on a point that shows a possible difference that has some merit: Old (non-modern) Southern tradition leans towards God, Family, State and Nation, in that order. Other areas of the country tend to order it as God, Family, Nation and State (Assuming that God enters the picture at all).

There was a time when pretty much all "Americans" looked at things the same way as in "Southern traditional values"; before and during the time of the Articles of Confederation. That began to shift with the passing of the national Constitution, heavy immigration and industrialization in the North, and other factors. It was by no means universal, as parts of Northern states continued to put state (or region) ahead of nation, but it does seem to be the main trend.

That difference in viewpoint may well have had much to do with what transpired during the 1850's and 1860's, and it's remnants still exist, even with the mixing of populations from the nation's regions in modern times.

It is also not unheard of for one to hold fast to "Southern heritage" while abhoring slavery. This may probably be best evident in Southern blacks, but also present within parts of the white population, as well.

As with most things, it's not always as clear cut as we sometimes try to make it appear.

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 02:33 PM
Thanks for trying to clarify exactly how tolerant you are, though, by inferring that you think there are some good, honest blacks out there.

Ah more Olbermann wordery..you can continue to paint me out to be whatever fills your personal need...but your dis ingenuousness shows when you post stuff like e.g:

by inferring that you think there are some good, honest blacks out there.

When I really said:

More times than not, true Southern values are represented in black families and communities more so than than other groups.

But this now raises the question of who exactly you had in mind when you wrote "other demographics." Didn't this all start with you kvetching about the NAACP?

I had in mind those who seek to use slavery as means of perpetuating a spirit of continued injustice for political, monetary or power reasons some 140 + years later yet fail to apply the same level of effort, funding, support and promotion of issues which truly aid in the advancement and betterment of their race, especially in light of the tremendous legislative actions in the past 40 years to provide an equal opportunity to do so.

And now I wonder how many other people born and raised in the South would actually meet your definition of "Southerner."

Here is a partial list of people I think might have trouble fitting into your idealized cultural self-conception:

William Faulkner
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Flannery O'Connor
Tennessee Williams
Martin Luther King
Rosa Parks
Johnny Winter
Louis Moreau Gottschalk
George Thomas
Judah Benjamin


Let me ask... do you think these Southerners are more likely to accept a compromise which removes the CS flag from a position of power and prominence atop the state capitol and places it over a proper CS historical memorial

or

do you think they would support, like the NAACP banishment of all CS symbols from any historical context under any circumstance and the use of economic terrorism when the political will does not agree at the cost of revenue into local communities the majority of which in the hospitality sector which employ a high percentages of diverse ethnic groups ?


I'll give you the last word and further oppty to paint me a racist like you have done at the end of everyone of these type conversations.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

tompritchett
07-21-2009, 06:55 PM
I wont post my PM and your response here but you know where I will post it.


Go right ahead and post them. I will also post the ones you have sent me previously.

I would suggest that neither of you post anything of such a nature. Personal and public p***ng contests have no place here.

I would also suggest that individuals take a few hours off and let their emotions cool before I have to lock this thread.

Pvt Schnapps
07-21-2009, 08:00 PM
Chris, I'm not disingenous, I say exactly what I believe. I admit to having the advantage in believing things that are acceptable in normal society, but that's all I concede. What you call "political correctness" most others would consider "community standards" or "common decency" or, for that matter, "common sense."

In answer to your first statement about "other demographics" it's clear you mean black people, specifically those in the NAACP. Thanks for manning up to your real message.

In answer to your question about which person on my list would support banishing all CS symbols, let me see ... Faulkner maybe, Fitzgerald maybe, O'Connor no -- she liked the material, Williams ditto, King probably, Parks probably, Winter depends, Gottschalk yes, Thomas yes, Benjamin no, all of which goes to show that real "Southerners" are, as I suggested, a more diverse lot than you seem to give them credit for.

Any more slow pitch rhetorical questions?

FloridaConfederate
07-21-2009, 08:39 PM
Chris, I'm not disingenous, I say exactly what I believe. I admit to having the advantage in believing things that are acceptable in normal society, but that's all I concede. What you call "political correctness" most others would consider "community standards" or "common decency" or, for that matter, "common sense."


You are as disingenuous as they come. You say things in order to excite and conflagrate. Especially things about Southerners and the SCV when you have been proven way out of your lane several times. Post all you like slamming those nitwits and myself, but be truthful. You use race and cast aspersions of racism when you have nothing in support of your assertions.

Community standards ?

The community decided through the legislative process to remove the CS flag from a place of superiority on the capitol and relocate it to a proper historical memorial. But you dont answer to this and just like the economic terrorists and their "common sense" you defend, you are quick to cry RACIST to anyone who calls you out on your bearing false witness. Political correctness ? I believe, as most, compromise is "acceptable to normal society" not the economic terrorism and subsequent harm you espouse.

In answer to your first statement about "other demographics" it's clear you mean black people, specifically those in the NAACP. Thanks for manning up to your real message.

Of course I mean black people. I don't know what your trying to say but I suspect it is a shot at further claims of racism ? I posted, then reposted in very clear terms that black people more times than not epitomize traditional Southern values and support such a compromise rather than promote the position of the extremist but media attention grabbing minority (and you of course). I witness it in my business, school, churches and communites every day.

In answer to your question about which person on my list would support banishing all CS symbols, let me see ... Faulkner maybe, Fitzgerald maybe, O'Connor no -- she liked the material, Williams ditto, King probably, Parks probably, Winter depends, Gottschalk yes, Thomas yes, Benjamin no, all of which goes to show that real "Southerners" are, as I suggested, a more diverse lot than you seem to give them credit for.

Well thanks for clearing up how historical figures would position against compromise hypothetically. This is yet another in a long line of you having a second sight into historical matters. I always look forward as it almost like peering into a crystal ball.

Any more slow pitch rhetorical questions?

Tying into my immediately previous statement do you really put out and stand by that any person of color is for the banishment of CS symbols and against the compromise that took place in SC ?



Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

dale beasley
07-21-2009, 08:46 PM
If any of you are looking for a good Southern Read, try these two authors:
Wille Morris
Eudora Welty

I really don't think that the "Southern Cause" came till after the families of the Southern Soldier came home and wanted to forget about it. I believe it was a more of a "justifiable reason" they fought. Because they started asking themselves ....why?

Now, with that said, what they did was a noble thing, they fought like true soldiers, and did well, and I am proud of my ancestors... was it for a noble cause...well that is for the Economic Types to decide. Because all war is fought over economics.

I grew up and remember when they marched the black kids into our classroom. And have remained good friends with most of them. If the flag is a symbol of hate, then the SCV has failed in their mission.

Thanks, just my opinion.

Dale Beasley

huntdaw
07-21-2009, 10:36 PM
How in the world did Johnny Winter get into this argument? And what about Edgar?

Pvt Schnapps
07-22-2009, 06:26 AM
How in the world did Johnny Winter get into this argument? And what about Edgar?

I just wanted Chris to know I have as good a handle on southern culture as he does. :)

Pvt Schnapps
07-22-2009, 06:43 AM
Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Chris, you seem to think I'm a pretty nasty person. But the words "nitwit," "retard," "racist," and "terrorism," as well as patronizing nicknames, taunts, and other emotionally burdened eruptions appear in your posts, not mine.

I suppose I should take offense, but since you direct yourself with equal or greater harshness toward several others who disagree with you, I realize it has nothing to do with me or, at this point, whatever the topic was.

I've read through your latest missive twice now and can't for the life of me figure out what point you're still trying to make, if any. I realize that by admitting this, I open myself to being called yet another name.

But that won't guarantee that you'll be making sense.

dale beasley
07-22-2009, 07:31 AM
"A TRUE SOUTHERNER WOULD STILL BE A DEMOCRAT"-Dale Beasley

FloridaConfederate
07-22-2009, 07:53 AM
"A TRUE SOUTHERNER WOULD STILL BE A DEMOCRAT"-Dale Beasley


Dale has on his thinking cap.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

dale beasley
07-22-2009, 08:07 AM
Chris your right. The true Democrat party that I grew up in and continiue to vote, has let the party itself down, however they are redefining itself now. Have to, otherwise we will never see another Democratic President in my lifetime.

The SCV, as our ancestors created, let itself down when they did not come forward and condem the organizations using the Battle Flag in a negative manner. It is one thing to wave a Battle Flag at a ballgame, it is another at a race rally. And they did not come forward.

From conversations with my friends who belong to the NAACP, and from the meetings that I have been to, they are just on the opposite end of the spectrum of the SCV. But they do have alot in common with the SCV, both are going nowhere.

Guys, walk with me for a minute, if you were to fly a flag of a former nation, would you use the flag that represented the nation as a whole?... or a battle flag carried by a selected army of that nation?

Ross L. Lamoreaux
07-22-2009, 08:09 AM
Don't blame me, I voted Breckinridge....

5 th Alabama Infantry
07-22-2009, 08:30 AM
Chris your right. The true Democrat party that I grew up in and continiue to vote, has let the party itself down, however they are redefining itself now. Have to, otherwise we will never see another Democratic President in my lifetime.

The SCV, as our ancestors created, let itself down when they did not come forward and condem the organizations using the Battle Flag in a negative manner. It is one thing to wave a Battle Flag at a ballgame, it is another at a race rally. And they did not come forward.

From conversations with my friends who belong to the NAACP, and from the meetings that I have been to, they are just on the opposite end of the spectrum of the SCV. But they do have alot in common with the SCV, both are going nowhere.

Guys, walk with me for a minute, if you were to fly a flag of a former nation, would you use the flag that represented the nation as a whole?... or a battle flag carried by a selected army of that nation?


The Sons of Confederate Veterans has condemned by Resolution the misuse of the Confederate Battleflag by extremist persons or groups on at least two occasions If your argument is that they didn’t do it in
1950’s or early ’60’s, at that time the organization had less than 2000 members.

Elliott Cummings
Adjutant
Maryland Division
Sons of Confederate Veterans

FloridaConfederate
07-22-2009, 09:50 AM
Chris your right. The true Democrat party that I grew up in and continiue to vote, has let the party itself down, however they are redefining itself now. Have to, otherwise we will never see another Democratic President in my lifetime.

The SCV, as our ancestors created, let itself down when they did not come forward and condem the organizations using the Battle Flag in a negative manner. It is one thing to wave a Battle Flag at a ballgame, it is another at a race rally. And they did not come forward.

From conversations with my friends who belong to the NAACP, and from the meetings that I have been to, they are just on the opposite end of the spectrum of the SCV. But they do have alot in common with the SCV, both are going nowhere.

Guys, walk with me for a minute, if you were to fly a flag of a former nation, would you use the flag that represented the nation as a whole?... or a battle flag carried by a selected army of that nation?

Ok.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

dale beasley
07-22-2009, 09:55 AM
The Sons of Confederate Veterans has condemned by Resolution the misuse of the Confederate Battleflag by extremist persons or groups on at least two occasions If your argument is that they didn’t do it in
1950’s or early ’60’s, at that time the organization had less than 2000 members.

Elliott Cummings
Adjutant
Maryland Division
Sons of Confederate Veterans


Elliott,

I truely mean you no disrespct, but you answered my point. The leadership did nothing in the 50 and the 60's, thus allowing the fight to be today when in no way anyone wins. And the silly publication that is put out today, is really a waste of funds. I really wish that a new form of leadship could take place at the National Level, but sadly it will not.

There are so many different discussions going on at this time on this thread. I wish we could have a thread on this very subject.

Break...

Chris,
I was banned from the OTB myself as well. Wow we have a connection. ;)

FloridaConfederate
07-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Chris,

I was banned from the OTB myself as well. Wow we have a connection. ;)

I will miss my friends I have met and done events with from there. It was my connection as a streamer to do the history heavy stuff.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

dale beasley
07-22-2009, 10:17 AM
I didn't fit in well,...surprised right? 8-)

Ross L. Lamoreaux
07-22-2009, 10:53 AM
****, banned from the OTB? You pretty much have to eat babies and such for that to happen....

flattop32355
07-22-2009, 11:18 AM
"A TRUE SOUTHERNER WOULD STILL BE A DEMOCRAT"-Dale Beasley

I once asked a Kentucky State Senator, a Democrat, what the difference was between a Southern Democrat and a Republican. He thought for a long moment, his eyes opened wide, he looked right at me and he said, "Nothing."

Yeah, Tom, it's pure modern, and I expect it to get deleted. ;)

If it weren't for the Civil War, I think it quite possible that many who call/called themselves Southern Democrats would have been Republicans.

dale beasley
07-22-2009, 11:21 AM
NO, not true at all, just didn't fit in.

Really, I didn't think anything about the modern politic thing on this thread...if it gets delected, no problem from me.

sbl
07-22-2009, 11:43 AM
I once asked a Kentucky State Senator, a Democrat, what the difference was between a Southern Democrat and a Republican. He thought for a long moment, his eyes opened wide, he looked right at me and he said, "Nothing."

Yeah, Tom, it's pure modern, and I expect it to get deleted. ;)

If it weren't for the Civil War, I think it quite possible that many who call/called themselves Southern Democrats would have been Republicans.

Except for Robert Byrd, I thought most became Republicans in the late 1960s/ early 70s. (Yup...modern as well. Sorry Thomas.)

sbl
07-22-2009, 11:46 AM
I left the OTB when I found that somebody could alter my posts. It was over modern politics. Too bad. The OTB was a place CW/WBTS folks could post peripheral jokes and topics of interest but not restricted to the CW/WBTS. Maybe it still is.

tompritchett
07-22-2009, 01:46 PM
I once asked a Kentucky State Senator, a Democrat, what the difference was between a Southern Democrat and a Republican. He thought for a long moment, his eyes opened wide, he looked right at me and he said, "Nothing."

Yeah, Tom, it's pure modern, and I expect it to get deleted.

Since we are talking more historical politics than modern, I will allow this discussion to continue for the time being but only as long as it remains civil (4 posts have just been deleted). In the 60's, Southern Democrats were also called Dixiecrats and really did start deserting the party until the nomination of Hubert Humphries for their canidate for President against Nixon (first term). As far as Kentucky was concerned, in the 60's even Republicans registered as Democrats just so that they could vote in a primary election. In those days, the Republicans were lucky to get even one canidate to run for state offices yet alone two for a primary. Even into the 70's the true election for governor was the Democratic pimary, with the exception of Louie Nunn, who I believe had been mayor of Louisville.

FloridaConfederate
07-22-2009, 02:12 PM
Think blue, dog.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Spinster
07-22-2009, 09:38 PM
****, banned from the OTB? You pretty much have to eat babies and such for that to happen....


Ross,

Just think about the number of 'on-off' switches my brain has to have to be a moderator in both venues.

dale beasley
07-22-2009, 10:20 PM
I left the OTB when I found that somebody could alter my posts. It was over modern politics. Too bad. The OTB was a place CW/WBTS folks could post peripheral jokes and topics of interest but not restricted to the CW/WBTS. Maybe it still is.

I found the OTB and the SCV to be a complete waste of egoism...is that a word like... orgasm? It must have been some sort of the other, otherwise, it would not have continued to have lasted as long as it had. (The OTB that is).

I encourage each of you to read a bit of MS Welty or of Mr Morris. They were both such great authors. I had a rare opportunity to have a beer once with MS Welty in the Atlanta Airport, I was in my Class A Uniform, and she told me how handsome I was,(just because I was from Mississippi) Use to love to go to Bills Greek Burger House on Saturday night just to impress my dates of knowing her.

Willie Morris, who is from Yazoo City, MS, use to sit on the porch of my Great Aunts house, smoke cigarettes, drink Bourbon, and eat M @ Ms. I use to think he smelled bad. But the man was a literary genius. Read the book "North Towards Home".

If you want to recall the frustration of the South in the late 60s and 70s just read some of their works.

I, in the past have allowed myself to get sucked into organizations, threads, and just plain "Mental Masturbation"...not anymore.

Dale Beasley,
(alive and kicking, with one foot anyway.)

tompritchett
07-23-2009, 08:55 AM
egoism...is that a word like... orgasm?

Close enough. The word is actually "egotism".

dale beasley
07-23-2009, 09:43 AM
Close enough. The word is actually "egotism".


LOL......r/db

dale beasley
07-24-2009, 12:01 AM
The Only true Sport in South Carolina is Horse Racing!!!;)

sbl
07-24-2009, 07:47 AM
And hiking in the Appalachians.

Stiggs
08-01-2009, 04:44 PM
... I define Southerners as those born in the South and raised with traditional Southern values rooted in God, Family, State and Nation...

Chris Rideout
Tamap, Florida

Has anyone else already noted the irony of traditional southerns values rooted in Nation being mentioned in a CW forum?

sbl
08-01-2009, 05:20 PM
Considering we're all somebody or descended from somebody who moved into somebody else's land around 400 years ago, the nation thing is a state of mind and man-made boundaries.

dale beasley
08-01-2009, 06:24 PM
I hope that this post will not start a pissing contest, but require folks to listen to what I said....

I sent in my renewal for membership to the SCV today, I did not send a check, but a note, and the note said, "when they go back and re modify their foxhole, will consider renewing my membership.

PVTStalls
08-05-2009, 09:20 PM
I live in NC and am a member of a NC "confederate" regiment. The fact that the ACC moved the series from South Carolina to North Carolina over the issue involving South Carolina and the Confederate Battle Flag ( which is actually the flag simply used to align the Army of Northern Virginia on the battlefield) just shows the ignorance of some people. I know and understand the significance of the single star on an all blue field of the NC flag. The point is I guess if people did their research they would probably find that the NC flag along with many other state flags, ( including the flag of Texas)could be taken to the same offense.

dale beasley
08-09-2009, 09:32 AM
Just had an issue with one of my Boy Scouts wearing the Battle Flag of Northern Virgina with a Hank Williams, Jr picture in the background. Told him to please go change out of that shirt...

Well his father came back with him raising **** and giving me the "Cause Speech"
I politely explained to him (off to the side)that the face of Hank Williams Jr on a Banner would have insulted every Soldier who fought for it. And if your son wants to honor his Confederate Ancestors, wear a T-shirt with an American Flag on it. I also explained to him that in a book I once read, a lady came out of her house and waived a battle flag as General Lee rode by, he politely told her to put that away and be a good American.

Johnson
08-10-2009, 03:01 AM
Just had an issue with one of my Boy Scouts wearing the Battle Flag of Northern Virgina with a Hank Williams, Jr picture in the background. Told him to please go change out of that shirt...

Well his father came back with him raising **** and giving me the "Cause Speech"
I politely explained to him (off to the side)that the face of Hank Williams Jr on a Banner would have insulted every Soldier who fought for it. And if your son wants to honor his Confederate Ancestors, wear a T-shirt with an American Flag on it. I also explained to him that in a book I once read, a lady came out of her house and waived a battle flag as General Lee rode by, he politely told her to put that away and be a good American.


What was the reply from the father after you explained things.

dale beasley
08-10-2009, 07:42 AM
What was the reply from the father after you explained things.


He actually understood the part about defacing the Banner, and there was nothing else said. The Kid changed his shirt.

---At that point I did not push any futher

shooter13
08-12-2009, 12:00 AM
Would you have made the same request if the scout had shown up with a rap group t-shirt from a band that advocated abuse of women, glorified drug use and violence.

shooter13
08-12-2009, 12:08 AM
Poor pitching arm,,,,,what do you expect from a basketball player. :)

sbl
08-12-2009, 08:32 AM
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/0//47/218/47218752_applausedone55.gif

hendrickms24
08-12-2009, 10:33 AM
Would you have made the same request if the scout had shown up with a rap group t-shirt from a band that advocated abuse of women, glorified drug use and violence.

My answer would be yes the same would go with that T- Shirt but I would not be able to tell you with music groups promotes the advocated abuse of women, glorified drug use and violence unless its was from my childhood! :grin:

sbl
08-12-2009, 11:18 AM
"......abuse of women, glorified drug use and violence...."

Wow, sounds like the John Wayne movies McLintock and Donovan's Reef.

http://redlightnaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/spanking.jpg



http://chross.blogt.ch/uploads/movies/donovansreef_poster.jpg