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mllitz
08-20-2006, 07:37 AM
Due to various reasons it has been several months since I visited this forum. I was rather surprised at the new format, and disappointed to have lost so many threads. I'm still learning to navigate this site so please bear with me if these are redundant questions.

Does anyone have a source for wool or silk fringe? I have a couple of projects in mind and would like to trim them with the wool fringe, but would settle for silk instead.

Given the prices of spring steel, is there an acceptable substitute for a cage crinoline. I have run across some directions for making it out of flat tubing which isn't nearly as expensive.

Does anyone have information on paisley "piano" shawls? What are the differences between a piano shawl and one that was actually worn. There used to be a thread discussing them on the old forum, but I have lost it. I know there has been some confusion among antique dealers, too. I like the lively pattern and am desirous of purchasing one, but need to know what I am getting into first. Also, what would be a reasonable price to pay for one?

I have far more questions, but will limit myself to three this go 'round. Thanks to anyone who posts a reply.

Melissa Litzman

celtfiddler
08-20-2006, 08:25 AM
Given the prices of spring steel, is there an acceptable substitute for a cage crinoline.

Not that I've seen. Plus, if you're going to go to the effort of trying to reproduce a cage crinoline--why not do it right.

Sources for hoop wire:
http://www.hedgehoghandworks.com/catalog/CS000010.shtml

http://lacis.com/catalog/catalog.html

Source for a cage crinoline kit:

http://shop.originals-by-kay.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=14&categoryId=34

I've made Kay's kit--it goes together well and will take quite a beating. Mine's been stuffed in luggage to go on flights and in boxes for moves from the Midwest to Europe to the west coast. Plastic would not have survived all that.

Jeri
08-24-2006, 08:07 AM
Hello Missy,
We, the Rogers, miss seeing you! I asked your mom about you in June. Are you still reenacting? anyways......
I would get kay's hoop kit. We have done 3 of them and they go together so well and are wonderfully sturdy.
As far as the shawl, I am also looking for one. I have been searching around but haven't seen one yet. I saw a beautiful one at the ship flea market last summer but the gal isn't selling there this year. I wish I would have bought it!
Take care and happy searching!
Jeri

vmescher
08-24-2006, 08:45 AM
Does anyone have information on paisley "piano" shawls? What are the differences between a piano shawl and one that was actually worn. There used to be a thread discussing them on the old forum, but I have lost it. I know there has been some confusion among antique dealers, too. I like the lively pattern and am desirous of purchasing one, but need to know what I am getting into first. Also, what would be a reasonable price to pay for one?

Melissa Litzman

Melissa,

In the latest issue of Civil War Historian, Susan Lyons Hughes had an excellent on paisley shawls which will give you a good start on learning about them and what to look for. There were also some great references.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, no one makes reproductions so you will have to look for antique ones. I've been fairly lucky in purchasing a number of paisley shawls for mycollection but I would hesitate to wear any of them except under very controlled circumstances.

Prices are going up all the time so it is difficult to state a reasonable prices. Sometimes you stumble upon a great buy and other times I find a wonderful one and put it down like a hot potato because of the price.

As for a shawl to wear, I prefer to wear a knitted one from a period pattern, or find a woven one that resembles one from period photographs.

bizzilizzit
08-24-2006, 03:59 PM
Melissa,

In the latest issue of Civil War Historian, Susan Lyons Hughes had an excellent on paisley shawls which will give you a good start on learning about them and what to look for. There were also some great references.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, no one makes reproductions so you will have to look for antique ones.

I received as a gift a repro paisley shawl from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC a few years ago. Perhaps they are still selling them?
Elizabeth

vmescher
08-24-2006, 06:35 PM
I received as a gift a repro paisley shawl from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC a few years ago. Perhaps they are still selling them?
Elizabeth

I don't think they are still selling them. I looked a couple of years ago and just looked in their online catalogue and they didn't have them. I remember seeing one someone had and it did look good but it was much smaller than an original. I've not seen an original paisley shawl as small as they were but they were ample sized for modern wear.

celtfiddler
08-24-2006, 08:20 PM
Unfortunately, as far as I know, no one makes reproductions so you will have to look for antique ones.

If you do a search on Ebay, you'll find a number of Indian made wool or wool/silk blend shawls. I don't know enough about them, but I'm guessing at 80"x40" the size is off.

mllitz
08-24-2006, 09:41 PM
Jeri! So wonderful to bump into you here. I haven't done any events in the last couple of years or so, but I am hoping to go to Mississinewa and do the 1812 thing this year, and Seth doesn't know it yet, but we are going to spend a day at the Atlanta Civil War event this November. LOL I'm really excited. I found a group within a couple hours drive of Cookeville and I'm getting desperate for some historical social interaction. The neighboring cows just can't seem to get excited about my fabric finds. LOL

I'm kicking myself now for not bidding on that paisley shawl on ebay last week. It only went for 66 dollars (sorry, my keyboard is dying and I can't use the dollar symbol). So I will have to find somebody in the area that can teach me to knit. Where do I start looking for period knitting patterns? Are the Heidi Marsh patterns easy for someone who would be just starting to knit?

vmescher
08-25-2006, 07:30 AM
So I will have to find somebody in the area that can teach me to knit. Where do I start looking for period knitting patterns? Are the Heidi Marsh patterns easy for someone who would be just starting to knit?

Some of the patterns in Heidi Marsh' book, _Knit, Net, Crochet and More_ are fine but there is only one shawl pattern in there. We have on our web site, www.raggedsoldier.com a section, titlted, Needlework Necessities and Novelities, an article on period knitting and several free period patterns. the patterns have the original instructions and picture, if given and a modern interpretation.

Right now, we don't have a shawl pattern up there but we will try to get one up soon. The article is a good one to read but while it doesn't give knitting instructions, it does explain 19th century knitting terms, instructions, yarns, and needle sizes. Some of the patterns up there now are easy starter ones for beginners and we are always adding to the pattern collection.

As we get the chance, we hope to add other types of needlework to the section. Plans are in the works for articles and patterns on crochet, whitework, tatting, perforated cardboard, and I'm looking for volunteers to do articles for beadwork, Berlin work, netting, and other 19th needlework.

ElizabethClark
08-25-2006, 12:55 PM
I'd ditto the free article on the Mescher's site--great resources there in the Virginia's Veranda section (don't forget to read the archived articles.) Even with something as "basic" as a knitted wrap, it helps to have a pattern that's been translated by a skilled modern knitter who understands the period terms, thread weights, etc. It's my recollection that the Heidi Marsh books are more compilations than proofed patterns, and might be frustrating for a knitter with a beginning understanding of period knitting.

On fringe: what about making your own from wool and/or silk threads? With a tambour hook or very delicate crochet needle, it's not a terribly difficult process to pull through and knot a small bunch of threads along the hemmed edge of an item.

Delia Godric
08-25-2006, 01:40 PM
On shawls.... please don't wear an original Paisley, paisley-type or Kashmir shawl to any event where it could get damaged. For some of the shawls, simply holding them with the fingertips will cause damage.

Here is my take on shawls: http://www.geocities.com/shadowofthesundial/shawls.html
Eventually, I will be updating this with a section on shawls for reenacting (in an up-coming CC) and a lengthy section on production.

If you decide to get a modern paisley-like shawl off ebay, first spend some time looking at original images to get an idea of what you should pick. There are many images on museum sites such as www.mfa.org.

Anna Worden

vmescher
08-25-2006, 02:26 PM
There are many images on museum sites such as

Anna Worden

Here is a good site for viewing a number of paisley shawls.
http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/paisley/paisleyex2.html

mllitz
08-25-2006, 07:24 PM
What wonderful articles on shawls. I have them bookmarked for future reference.

Mrs. Clark, I'm having a good laugh at myself. :oops: I was having a hard time envisioning the process you mentioned for fringe. All I could picture was cutting the threads above the hem and trying to use a crochet hook to knot those same thread around the hem. What a disaster that would be! I have plenty of scrap wool to play with. I also have connections with a major bagpipe maker, and wonder if perchance he might not have a source for the wool fringe used on bagpipe covers.

Thank you ladies for your assistance.

Melissa

ElizabethClark
08-26-2006, 10:17 AM
I don't know that I'd use pipe fringe for anything besides upholstery projects... it's a bit "chunky" for clothing.

Hee... wow, your brain was wanting you to work far too hard for fringe. LOL :) Thanks for the giggle, and the reassurance that mine isn't the only brain to do such things. :)

Delia Godric
08-28-2006, 01:37 PM
Warning, this may be an extreamly vague and utterly pointless post....

There is a book in the Harvard online collection that I remember having a short section on making fringe. It is a pre-CW book but I don't remember the title or the author. I found the book while browsing subjects in the Digital book archives. It would have been under one of the domestic/sewing/household sections. I do remember it being interesting and worth finding again.

Anna Worden