minie ball cartridges?

[markjs]

I own an enfield repro that I would like to live fire, perhaps hunt with besides using it for reenacting. Does anyone know if preloaded minie ball paper cartridges are available anywhere? I know I can buy the balls and powder but if I can buy the cartridges I would rather. any information would be appreciated. you can reply here or email me at mark.santucci@yahoo.com. Thanks, Mark

[flattop32355]

May I suggest that if you intend to use your Enfield for live fire, that you consider getting a second barrel for it, so that one may be devoted to live fire, and the other to reenacting.

The hazard, though minimal, of the leavings of lead in the barrel from live firing becoming a projectile at a reenactment where lines of men can come far too close together is not worth the worry.

[tompritchett]

I know I can buy the balls and powder but if I can buy the cartridges I would rather. any information would be appreciated. you can reply here or email me at mark.santucci@yahoo.com. Thanks, Mark

Mark, I would suggest that you look into the local chapter of the North South Skirmish Association. This group regularly live fires Civil War replicas and I am sure that they could answer any questions you might have as well as teach you how to verify that you have not left any lead rings in your barrel after firing.

[Blair]

Excellent suggestion Tom.
This site should take you to the various N-SSA Regions listed by State

http://www.n-ssa.org/regions.html
You will learn how to make your own ammo to fit your gun and you will learn how to properly maintain your firearm as well. (The N-SSA does not allow paper cartridges for safety reasons)

[Artyman]

Mark,

The short answer to your question is "no". I don't know of anybody who sells a pre made complete live fire cartridge for your rifle.

Fact is, you might not even want one really. The paper cartridge was intended to make it easier for masses of troops to load quickly, be easy to resupply, and to standardize the drill. Real shooters desire to improve over that.

First, you need a bullet. The first most important thing is get your bore sized. Your local gunsmith can help you with that. Your bullet must be sized to that bore, using a sizing die. The size can be different depending on whether or not you load "Enfield Style" by leaving the bullet in the paper, or by using a patch, or by loading it in without anything. To avoid that lead ring problem already mentioned you might consider using a patched ball rather than a mini ball. Another suggestion is to use one of those smooth sided English style bullets. Dixie stock number is #BU0906. Again, your gunsmith can advise you.

Next powder. Over time you will determine how much gives you the best result. You can load these in paper or plastic what ever you choose. Never load directly from a flask or horn. I strongly suggest FFg but at .577 some folks think you get a better cleaner burn with FFFg. In either case more is not better. The weapon will only burn so much anyhow with the rest being blown out. I take an old white sheet out with me when firing a new weapon and spread it out on the ground in front of the bench. I start with about 50 grains and steadily increase the load until I start seeing unburnt powder fall onto the sheet. , usually at about 70 grains. I usually load 60 grains of FFg. Anything more is just a waste. It takes a long time to finally get the shot groups and sight adjustments right before you can actually experiment with the loads. A casual shooter probably won't benefit much from this.

Caps. Well, make sure you don't have a "drilled out" cone. Some reenactors drill out the hole to reduce miss fires. This is stupid actually. It's much better and safer to simply clean and maintain the weapon properly. But, those who drill out the cone (nipple) then need to have a second one to use when live firing. If they forget to switch them, well, there could be a problem. The "German" caps generally work best. Never use a "six winged" cap since these can and often do throw pieces out and hit people (you). I usually get about 3 or 4 bad ones (miss fire) per 100 from Navy Arms brand, but almost never get a bad German cap.

Lube. I lube everything I shoot. Some guys advise against it. However, a miniball needs lube in the grooves even if the the other styles can be fired in a lubed patch or paper. Bore Butter works for me with patched ball or smoothsided bullets but I lube my minnies with bees wax. There are so many formulas for bullet lube that I won't even start on that. Besides, everyone thinks their formula is the best.

Now, as my essay shows, a fixed paper cartridge falls short in many ways. But, when I do fire with a paper cartridge I use the British style cartridge with a mini ball or smooth sided bullet, sized to match bore minus cartridge paper thickness, the paper where the bullet is dipped in beeswax. In picture below Enfield cartridge is the one in the upper right corner.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/60sRefugee/scan00010001.jpg

Harry

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

The typical N-SSA "Old School" cartridge is a red vinyl plastic (air conditioning fitting protector) filled with powder and closed with the ball inserted nose down and the hollow base filled with grease of some kind.
The New School version is a soft vinyl version of the same.

Although in the Way Back Daze (pre mid 1970's) they were thin cardboard tubes.

I do not know anyone commercially making "live" cartridges.

CHS

[Pauline Cushman]

I own an enfield repro that I would like to live fire, perhaps hunt with besides using it for reenacting. Does anyone know if preloaded minie ball paper cartridges are available anywhere? I know I can buy the balls and powder but if I can buy the cartridges I would rather. any information would be appreciated. you can reply here or email me at mark.santucci@yahoo.com. Thanks, Mark

Unfortunately the french mini ball was never a pre-load. Currently, being a re-enactor myself and having in the past had to load and blank fire reproductions of 1850 Springfields and Endfields, it always comes down to you learning how to roll your own paper cartridge and pour your powder into it. I have always perferred to roll my own paper cartridges and pre-load my own powder because if there is to much powder in the load. You get a hot load and an explosion from to much powder in the charge.

[Evil Dog]

Hey Markjs... it's like 99 percent certain that you will end up rolling your own if you want live fire cartridges. It really isn't all that hard. I used to make up paper cartridges all the time for my 61 Springfield but have since gone almost exclusively to the red plastic tubes... just so much easier.

[Ofcalipka]

This guy did alot of research and his instructions were easy to follow on how to make your own.

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge.htm

[bill shack]

I live fire my 1853 repo. I have found that if you use black powder ffg or fffg that the barrel dirties up real quick. I have started to use american pioneer ffg. a modern synthetic that burns very clean and does not require lube or cleaning between shots. I am very impressed and have suggested it to my unit for live firing. I will still use black powder at reenacting events due to the fact the new stuff burns clean and lacks that big cloud of smoke.

[Artyman]

Don't try to use it in a Sharps! That American stuff needs some compression to really light up and it just doesn't do well in a Sharps. I tried it last fall and had about an 80% missfire rate.

Harry

[bob 125th nysvi]

I live fire my 1853 repo. I have found that if you use black powder ffg or fffg that the barrel dirties up real quick. I have started to use american pioneer ffg. a modern synthetic that burns very clean and does not require lube or cleaning between shots. I am very impressed and have suggested it to my unit for live firing. I will still use black powder at reenacting events due to the fact the new stuff burns clean and lacks that big cloud of smoke.

with synthetics is you have to know how much more pressure they produce for the same load. Some synthetics produce as much as 20% more pressure so you need to back down the load to not tax the barrel.

The other issue is many reproductions are sold "black powder" only. Put in a synthetic and the manufacturer is off the hook for any problems you may have. You have in effect voided the warranty.

[tompritchett]

Put in a synthetic and the manufacturer is off the hook for any problems you may have. You have in effect voided the warranty.

And off the hook from a liability point of view if the barrel blows up in your face.