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Shermans_Neckties
06-19-2009, 06:28 AM
Maryland School Blocks Distribution of Confederate Flag Brochure

Wednesday, June 10, 2009

CUMBERLAND, Md. — A dispute has erupted in Cumberland over the distribution of a brochure that purports to explain the history of the Confederate battle flag in Allegany County public schools.

At a closed-door meeting of the school board Tuesday, Cumberland Historic Cemetery Organization President Edward Taylor appealed Superintendent William AuMiller's rejection of a brochure the group produced about the history of the flag.

Board Vice President Karen Treber said a decision will be announced in coming weeks.

AuMiller told the Cumberland Times-News he objected to political messages and religious symbols in the brochure.

Charles Woods of Cumberland complains that the brochure doesn't tell the whole story and does not explain that the flag was used to intimidate blacks.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525700,00.html

hendrickms24
06-19-2009, 07:10 AM
Maybe if you knew what was going on in that area of the state you would not say things like
Nonsense from the Old Whine State :roll:
I don't think the school board wants to cause more racial problem due to what happened last fall.

http://www.times-news.com/local/local_story_265012901.html

Shermans_Neckties
06-19-2009, 10:22 AM
That had nothing to do with the Confederate flag. Trying to link it to that incident is just another attempt to link the CS flag to "racism" because it is PC to do so.

From Old Line State to Old Whine State. Yessiree.

hendrickms24
06-19-2009, 11:06 AM
That had nothing to do with the Confederate flag. Trying to link it to that incident is just another attempt to link the CS flag to "racism" because it is PC to do so.

From Old Line State to Old Whine State. Yessiree.

Your right all the problems that Western Md is having over rasicm is just a plot of the PCers! :roll:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j197/Portu-Guzzi/civil%20war%20related/th_klanwavingflag.jpg

http://www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/intel/report/40/AP060610028015.jpg

two phots of the Sharpsburg Klan rally!

Gee I wonder why the school board voted against the flyers!

hendrickms24
06-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Sorry Duplicate post.

sbl
06-19-2009, 11:37 AM
Nice racists! One wears a dress, one has a fetish costume, and Gordon Young, the child molester, buys off the rack.

40AcreMule
06-19-2009, 01:55 PM
Nice racists! One wears a dress, one has a fetish costume, and Gordon Young, the child molester, buys off the rack.

Uh... Scott? You do realize that you are a reenactor and also dress up a little funny at times.

For once in my life I'm gonna come down on the side of the Confederate flag. (You saw it here first, folks!)

We will never get beyond the flag being a symbol of racism if we (black folks) keep crying every time we see one or fall to pieces everytime someone insults us. I find this quote in the article linked to by hendriksms24 to be very telling:

“They were trying to upset us, calling my guys the N-word,” Jefferies is quoted as saying in Saturday’s Washington Post. “I had one guy in tears. I had to take him off the field.”

"Jefferies" (probably a white coach) has wimpy blacks on his team crying because they are called by whites what black kids call each other ever day of the year? Yeah, I believe that. Not. I can see them getting angry, not crying. We stopped crying the day Martin Luther King was buried. Then we got mad.

The problem is not with the Confederate flag. The problem is with school boards consiting mostly of whites who think we blacks are a bunch of scared Uncle Toms that wet ourselves everytime we see the battleflag or hear "that word". "N-word" is a term whites invented to save our poor little Uncle Tom feelings.

I agree with Sherman. This is nothing more than hysterical whining on the part of a mostly white school board that is afraid of a black constituency. That's not racism but it is stereotyping.

Oh, and about those guys in sheets and brownshirts. I see a mere handful. Yeah, they really intimidate me. :roll: But, God bless 'em still and long live free speech!

Highly amused black feller sends.

GrumpyDave
06-19-2009, 02:18 PM
I guess the state song needs re-doin' too.

Pvt Schnapps
06-19-2009, 03:30 PM
Maybe it wasn't just the flag; maybe it was what else was in the brochure. Anyone got a link to that?

Good old Fox. Nothing like giving the complete story.

sbl
06-19-2009, 03:53 PM
"Uh... Scott? You do realize that you are a reenactor and also dress up a little funny at times."

Hahhahaha! CW/WBTS soldiers wear pants and the leather is functional.

"Oh, and about those guys in sheets and brownshirts. I see a mere handful. Yeah, they really intimidate me. But, God bless 'em still and long live free speech!"

Yeah! Their "dooshyness" is self evident.

sbl
06-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Would More and Bigger Flags be the solution?

Che
06-19-2009, 04:15 PM
For once in my life I'm gonna come down on the side of the Confederate flag. (You saw it here first, folks!)


Randy? Is that you? :D

Hey, man... you owe me a BEER! Remember when we had that conversation last year at the Dobbin House? I knew.... I just KNEW!!!... you would one day come around.

I still have that Confederate uniform if you want to buy it. :cool:

RebelBugler
06-20-2009, 05:13 PM
Maybe it wasn't just the flag; maybe it was what else was in the brochure. Anyone got a link to that?

Good old Fox. Nothing like giving the complete story.

Yep....here is the link you requested:

http://www.chco-online.org/News_Releases/news_releases.html (http://www.chco-online.org/News_Releases/news_releases.html)

Also, the latest on the decision of the School Board as reported by the local newspaper, the Cumberland Times-News.

http://www.times-news.com/opinion/local_story_168224221.html?keyword=secondarystory (http://www.times-news.com/opinion/local_story_168224221.html?keyword=secondarystory)

If the report is accurate, the School Board Superintendent was for it before he was against it!

sbl
06-20-2009, 06:57 PM
"...It wasnít until the finished product was delivered to the school system that Dr. AuMiller did a complete turn around against the brochure. Throughout Dr. AuMillerís testimony, he cited there were religious symbols and political messages in the brochure. However, he failed to point out what they were...."

It should have been easy. If I'm looking at the back panel of the Brochure here.....

http://www.chco-online.org/News_Releases/anderson.jpg

......It does have a religious overtone and references written articles about Col Wirtz, Jefferson Davis etc. who not everyone sees as heroes.

"If the report is accurate, the School Board Superintendent was for it before he was against it! "

Funny and topical, but if he hadn't seen or approved of the finished product, the brochure, as well made as it is, does have religious symbols. The CHCO site is a religious site from what I see, and has a political cartoon posted.

Pvt Schnapps
06-20-2009, 09:13 PM
"This article will exhibit our great patriotic fight to defend Confederate History, which we consider our godly duty."

So, we have neo-Confederates whining because their propaganda was not in the end promoted by the public schools. Gosh, isn't that just too bad.

This being America, I guess everyone got what they wanted. The good taxpayers didn't have to pay for that obviously slanted nonsense, and the group promoting nonsense got to complain about discrimination.

You may not believe this, but I just love this country. :)

reb64
06-24-2009, 08:14 PM
"So, we have neo-Confederates whining because their propaganda was not in the end promoted by the public schools. Gosh, isn't that just too bad.

This being America, I guess everyone got what they wanted. The good taxpayers didn't have to pay for that obviously slanted nonsense, and the group promoting nonsense got to complain about discrimination.

You may not believe this, but I just love this country. :)


its koolaid drinkers like you that are helping to make this a crappy nation full of political correctness. its not propaganda to preserve and promote the corrct use of our nations flags and symbols, unless you want the nonsense violence and misuse and abuse to continue

sbl
06-25-2009, 05:18 AM
its koolaid drinkers like you that are helping to make this a crappy nation full of political correctness. its not propaganda to preserve and promote the corrct use of our nations flags and symbols, unless you want the nonsense violence and misuse and abuse to continue

http://patheticgeekstories.com/images/beverage-Kool-Aid.jpg

Pvt Schnapps
06-25-2009, 06:44 AM
its koolaid drinkers like you that are helping to make this a crappy nation full of political correctness. its not propaganda to preserve and promote the corrct use of our nations flags and symbols, unless you want the nonsense violence and misuse and abuse to continue

Thank you, Ray, for once again illustrating my point. But I'm sorry you think this is a crappy country; as I said earlier, I love it.

reb64
06-25-2009, 04:33 PM
Thank you, Ray, for once again illustrating my point. But I'm sorry you think this is a crappy country; as I said earlier, I love it.


I love the country too, but hate the lies being told by those outside our circle, and I guess perpetuated and even upheld by some of those within. I should remember that some reenactors arent necessarily preservationists, historians or descedants of actual veterans and hence dont mind disrepecting the values and symbols they fought for and upheld. I'm glad previous generations had more respect and admiration for each others side and am sad it didnt pass down to others.

Pvt Schnapps
06-26-2009, 11:40 AM
I love the country too, but hate the lies being told by those outside our circle, and I guess perpetuated and even upheld by some of those within. I should remember that some reenactors arent necessarily preservationists, historians or descedants of actual veterans and hence dont mind disrepecting the values and symbols they fought for and upheld. I'm glad previous generations had more respect and admiration for each others side and am sad it didnt pass down to others.

I have every respect for the defenders of the republic. I also respect the southern soldier, who fought for his community and his comrades. That said, I recognize that to appreciate the truth of what happened in 1861-1865 we have to accept that our ancestors on both sides represented not just the best things they said about themselves and their causes, but the worst things their enemies said about them.

I have no respect for contemporary apologists for the rebellion, who would use history to support a modern agenda. And I think it's possible to honor our southern heritage without making caricatures of ourselves. But mostly I oppose simplistic portrayals of either side and an over-eagerness to portray oneself as a victim in a discussion about something that happened 150 years ago. That's the kind of nonsense that ruined Bosnia.

reb64
06-27-2009, 04:16 PM
I have every respect for the defenders of the republic. I also respect the southern soldier, who fought for his community and his comrades. That said, I recognize that to appreciate the truth of what happened in 1861-1865 we have to accept that our ancestors on both sides represented not just the best things they said about themselves and their causes, but the worst things their enemies said about them.

I have no respect for contemporary apologists for the rebellion, who would use history to support a modern agenda. And I think it's possible to honor our southern heritage without making caricatures of ourselves. But mostly I oppose simplistic portrayals of either side and an over-eagerness to portray oneself as a victim in a discussion about something that happened 150 years ago. That's the kind of nonsense that ruined Bosnia.

Noble statement that almost contradicts your first. if you respect the truth, then whats the specific non-truth that irks you? and whats your point in bosnia?

Frenchie
06-27-2009, 08:16 PM
I see political discussion is allowed on the forum again. Oh, Lord, where shall I begin? I must think on this.

To be continued...

tompritchett
06-28-2009, 01:57 AM
I see political discussion is allowed on the forum again.

Only in very limited terms here in the Flags and Statues conference. If it is related to a Flag or Statue issue, yes it is allowed. General modern political commentary is still, and always will be, banned. It just causes too many problems. We just got finished with having to deal with some problems that carried over from modern political discussions on another forum that carried over to here in some PMs.

Frenchie
06-28-2009, 11:39 AM
An understandable policy, Tom. Certainly, keeping political commentary restricted to the ever-present couple of posters who smirk and sneak along the line with their plausibly deniable references is the best thing to do in the Whine Cellar.

tompritchett
06-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Certainly, keeping political commentary restricted to the ever-present couple of posters who smirk and sneak along the line with their plausibly deniable references is the best thing to do in the Whine Cellar.

First, those that do "smirk and sneak along the line" continuously run the risk of having their posts deleted or edited when they cross the line. I have done so multiple times to both parties in the above dialog along with others that engage in such discussions as I have also done with other who periodically engage in such discussions. Second, I truly believe that the vast majority of the readers here probably do not have strong enough opinions on some of these subjects that they feel the need to argue about them. Thus you only see a small number of our users who find the need to "smirk and sneak along the line".

billwatson2
06-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Tom,

I suggest you don't edit. I suggest you delete entire posts if any part crosses your line. Life is too short; besides, what you end up doing is creating an illusion. Some people make no sense at all in their natural form; by taking away the parts that make the least sense, you imbue them with at least the facade of reasonableness.

Besides, it's the way to stop people from playing games and seeing how much they can get away with. Nothing like writing a 2,000 word essay and seeing it all go away because an over-the-top reference was buried deep in its heart and you spotted it or it got flagged by some other reader.

"I recognize that to appreciate the truth of what happened in 1861-1865 we have to accept that our ancestors on both sides represented not just the best things they said about themselves and their causes, but the worst things their enemies said about them."

Schnapps, that's one of the most epiphanous moments ever in here. It has Kennedy-like tones. :D

I'm not sure why this brochure was headed for the schools in the first place. Whether it's a history group or a church group or the local Democratic Party, what's taking place either fits into a specific part of a school's curriculum or it doesn't belong. What part of the educational program was this supposed to supplement?

bob 125th nysvi
06-28-2009, 07:52 PM
is that, despite what supporters say, the WHOLE story isn't being told.

Just the part that puts the Battle Flag in a better light and throws in unnecessary religious references.

Maybe part of the problem is that supporters of the flag are trying to separate what the individual soldier fought for from what the CSA fought for. And that is probably just a little too deep for most people to grasp.

You can reasonably argue that many individual southern soldiers had no interest in supporting slavery. You can not argue that the CSA wasn't structured through its laws to provide for the continuation of slavery. What other function of the south was threatened by Lincoln's election? None only slavery, read the newspaper accounts.

Furthermore you can not argue that racial discrimination and oppression did not continue to occur, both legally and through the mob, without the Battle Flag waving overhead.

You also can not say that hate groups today do not spread their agenda without the flag waving overhead.

If the brochure (and I don't see a separate copy of one) is represented on the website accurately and had stopped with their seal just below the the part on the Confederate Flag (Battle Flag) then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

But they didn't they threw religion into it.

I guess my recommendation to supporters is as follows:

1) Any literature you produce should probably just acknowledge that for the CSA the war was about slavery.

2) That the Flag has been hijacked both in the past and today to support racially motivated agendas.

3) Start fighting against those organizations who use the flag for racial purposes.

4) And THEN teach history and honor your ancestors, not for fighting for slavery, but for fighting, as all Americans have, when called upon their government to do so.

Unless you acknowledge the abuses and fight against those who continue to abuse, you are going to continue to lose this battle. And badly.

tompritchett
06-28-2009, 08:12 PM
I suggest you don't edit. I suggest you delete entire posts if any part crosses your line. Life is too short; besides, what you end up doing is creating an illusion. Some people make no sense at all in their natural form; by taking away the parts that make the least sense, you imbue them with at least the facade of reasonableness.

Believe it or not, sometimes it is just easier to edit as it saves me from having to answer a PM later on and it lets others know up front what types of messages cross the line. As far as I know, only moderators actually see what posts have been deleted and why. Now if the general membership saw the deletion of the post and the reason why it was deleted then it might be a different story.

flattop32355
06-28-2009, 11:17 PM
its koolaid drinkers like you that are helping to make this a crappy nation full of political correctness. its not propaganda to preserve and promote the corrct use of our nations flags and symbols, unless you want the nonsense violence and misuse and abuse to continue

Uh, Rob, I hate to point this out to you, but the Confederate battle flag (and other symbols, too) wasn't a part of this crappy nation....it was part of a very short-lived other crappy nation, one that had its share of misuses and abuses while it lived.

Neither side is blameless for what happened. The same is true for us (the USA) before and after the CW, up to modern times.

That said, compared to every other country in the world, bar none, we've done pretty well, both for ourselves and in helping others beyond our borders, particularly in the last seventy years.

We may be scumbags, but we're the best scumbags on the planet.

sbl
06-29-2009, 05:26 AM
"..............

We may be scumbags, but we're the best scumbags on the planet.

usa! Usa! Usa! :)

Frenchie
06-29-2009, 09:14 AM
I rest my case.

sbl
06-29-2009, 10:30 AM
That reminds me Frenchie, are you feeling better?

tompritchett
06-30-2009, 01:55 PM
Moderator Hat: Let's stay off the modern political commentary here folks. I have already deleted one post and will not hesitate to delete another.