Repeaters at Bummers Event

[MarkTK36thIL]

Mind those that haven't been paying attention to the Bummers event, or any type of event that is non-spectator, foraging parties are limited to 25 men. Not exactly a large number -but is the size an entire company by 1864.

HUh? Is this the new double speak for: "if they had it they would have used it."

Sure could be, but at least there's justification for use from being available during the war unlike stainless steel widget, cooler, etc that some people can not forego without at XYZ event.

I've been trying to get the figures of Henrys/Spencer rifles produced per year, not just the overall approximate number to generate my interest of obtaining a spencer/henry for the Bummers event. However, let's just say (for the sake of argument) that only 8,000 spencer rifles were produced by late '64 in time for Sherman's March -where did those 8,000 go? If most were bought up by the states/government and not readily available for individual purchase, I'll leave the check book at home and forego on buying a spencer. Likewise for the Henry. I would love to see a list of units that had them, when they had them, and the numbers if possible (maybe someone has it stashed away in some old research drawer).

Silas, I would really enjoy seeing a Zouve impression done correctly and in force. Question being, if any EBUFU event did call for a Zouve impression -would they come?

[Tiger_rifles]

It is always good to find out new information. I am indeed willing to learn and absorb any new information concerning the Henry rifle or anything else.
"Education can cure most prejudices, but not all" It is good saying for all of us, even me.

http://44henryrifle.webs.com/index.htm
http://www.rarewinchesters.com/artic...t_hen_00.shtml

You are 100% correct, the problem I have found is the information I recieve is often not what I wanted to hear. 6 months ago, I was looking for a new custom musket to build and thought I found it in the "Todd". Posted on this site and found out the "Todd" was a one-of a kind, never produced musket. Now if you go back and read the first few posts of this thread you wil see how most feel about Henry Rifles. They are compaired to Leopard skin pants, Seige Artillery, Marines, city hospital workers, etc..... They have thier place in history but it is very limited. And other posts have hinted as to how all these Henry's/spencers may destroy a good event. I know many that wanted to attend Bummers as CS troops, but are unwilling to follow the rules,( Mdl 1842, hunting rifle, or shotgun), and be blasted away at by Yanks with Henry's and Spencers,(as it seems from this forum and another that more Yanks will have these repeaters than not!). It also appears that they have no intention of following the "50 rounds per man" guideline.
Maybe......jusy maybe this is why there are three times as many Yanks registered as there are Rebs!

[paul hadley]

... They have thier place in history but it is very limited. And other posts have hinted as to how all these Henry's/spencers may destroy a good event. I know many that wanted to attend Bummers as CS troops, but are unwilling to follow the rules,( Mdl 1842, hunting rifle, or shotgun), and be blasted away at by Yanks with Henry's and Spencers,(as it seems from this forum and another that more Yanks will have these repeaters than not!). It also appears that they have no intention of following the "50 rounds per man" guideline.
Maybe......jusy maybe this is why there are three times as many Yanks registered as there are Rebs!

Friends, I definitely agree that we should strive to present history as it happened, not as we wished it had happened.

But appararently there's a misinterpretation of this EFUBU known as the "Bummers March." The threads I've been following say IMHO that they are trying to follow the correct proportion of repeating arms to single shot long arms as would have been found in the 1864 regiments to be represented. For example, originally one of the companies planned to have every man firing a Henry; that since has been modified.

I'm registered for one of the largest groups and as far as I can tell, none of us will have a repeating weapon because none/few from that regiment did in late 1864.

Although many of us would enjoy owning/using a reproduction Henry or Spencer, I can see no way that even half of the federals on the line will have them in Georgia. Exceeding a maximum of 50 rounds per man? I'll recheck the regs late this summer and plan to come with the preferred amount.

To paraphrase the late Chawls, "I plan to have fun in as period correct a way as possible. How 'bout you."

Respectfully,
Paul

[Tiger_rifles]

First, have you ever tried to load and fire 3 rounds a minute.
I know that as a commander of a Henry equipped unit, I would wait for my opponent to close within 50 or so feet before opening up with my men firing as fast as they could.
I seriously doubt that very many attacking formations would still be intact and advancing at the end when my men had to start reloading.
(you ever seen formations duck when the other side comes to the aim for a volley).
Once a repeater unit to your front opens up, the fire will be almost continuous rather than a series of distinct volleys. Trust me, there would have been a difference.

Thank you Heer Schmidt, I could not have said it better if I tried!

But Mr. Pritchett.... here we go again saying things like "I seriously doubt" and "Trust me," giving our 21 Cent. opinions w/o and 19th facts, figures, or consideration. Also, I don't think I ever saw the above mentioned tactic in Hardies or Casey's? And as for "Ducking" the in-coming rounds, what do you do with "Fire by Files", "Rank Fire", or "Fire at Will"? If we start using 20th Cent. tactics at an 19th Cent Battle then we are nolonger porpraying any thing or respecting the honor of anyone......we are just playing paintball!
So lets all go back to cutting the back pockets off our jeans and all the Yanks can have Henry's and Winchesters, all the Rebs can have Shotguns, and we all can be "Dis-Mounted Cav." !

On a second note, why is it assumed that only a small number of musket rounds fired are hits, but that every time a Henry is fired a Reb should go down? I was a Police Officer for 10 years until an eye injury took me out. I was directly involved, (I was there or investigated), in 3 seperate shootouts, all 3 took place within 2 feet to 10 feet distance, involving one Officer and one Defendant, or 2 Officers and one Defendant. Both sides fired atleast 10 rounds and on one case 38 rounds were exchanged! In ALL of these shootouts NO ONE WAS HIT! NOT EVEN ONE ROUND! (One Officer got his Radio shot off and a Defendent had 3 bullet holes in his coat, but NO hits!). Good friend of mine, Fire Arms Instructor, 12 years Expert shot with every weapon in the Dept., got in a shootout across the hood of his patrol car, 27 rounds fired, when the defendants gun ran dry,(13 shot S&W), my buddy had one round left and the other guy surrendered. Another buddy of mine was walking up to a house,(about 20 foot distance), man stepped out and began shooting at him with a 9mm, my buddy pulled his 357 revolver and dropped the defendant with one shot thru the hips.
So don't try and tell me that "Spray and Pray" works, when facing a well trained Soldier that knows how to use his weapon.

Yes! Henry's can be used to great affect. Yes! SHermans army had Henry's in 1864. But not HALF his Army! And this is how "Bummers" is panning out to be. So you take this great idea of a re-creation of Shermans Army in Georgia and the Georgia Militia trying to stop them. But you bastard up all that "HISTORY" has told us by telling the Rebs they must have smoothbores and 50 rounds only, when the Yanks will be mostly armed with Henry's and Spencer's, and (from what I have heard), told to bring atleast 400 to 500 rounds EACH!

Sorry, I see no reason to go that far and take out my best CS Kit, so you can play "Vietnam Ambush"! All Weekend!

[Tiger_rifles]

Friends, I definitely agree that we should strive to present history as it happened, not as we wished it had happened.

*Mr. Hadley, I do see what you mean, it seems to make sense, but the best layed plans of mice and men.....*

But appararently there's a misinterpretation of this EFUBU known as the "Bummers March." The threads I've been following say IMHO that they are trying to follow the correct proportion of repeating arms to single shot long arms as would have been found in the 1864 regiments to be represented.

* I think it has been made clear in this post that no one really knows how many Henry's or Spencer's Sherman had with him. So how can you make it "the correct proportion" if you do not know how many there were?*

For example, originally one of the companies planned to have every man firing a Henry; that since has been modified.

*How many times have you been to an event were all the Rebs were told to have one or two types of arms..... but there are Enfields everywhere! I am sure there will be more Henry's there than register that way.*

I'm registered for one of the largest groups and as far as I can tell, none of us will have a repeating weapon because none/few from that regiment did in late 1864.

*Good for you! But how can you tell?*

Although many of us would enjoy owning/using a reproduction Henry or Spencer, I can see no way that even half of the federals on the line will have them in Georgia. Exceeding a maximum of 50 rounds per man? I'll recheck the regs late this summer and plan to come with the preferred amount.

*I'm sure you will, but with whole companies of Henry's and they being called "Foragers", I would say they are going to be up front, making first contact with the Rebs. And trying to fight off Henry's, how long is that 50 rounds going to hold out? So then what happens when the Rebs 50 rounds are gone and Shermans Infantry has not even seen a Reb?*

To paraphrase the late Chawls, "I plan to have fun in as period correct a way as possible. How 'bout you."

*None of this sounds "period correct" to me!*

Respectfully,
Paul

Respectfully Submitted,

[hanktrent]

Yes! SHermans army had Henry's in 1864. But not HALF his Army! And this is how "Bummers" is panning out to be. So you take this great idea of a re-creation of Shermans Army in Georgia and the Georgia Militia trying to stop them. But you bastard up all that "HISTORY" has told us by telling the Rebs they must have smoothbores and 50 rounds only, when the Yanks will be mostly armed with Henry's and Spencer's, and (from what I have heard), told to bring atleast 400 to 500 rounds EACH!

This question is going to sound really strange, considering that I'm attending Bummers and you'd think I'd know the answer, but I've only really researched the small corner of my own impression.

Is Bummers being presented as a representative sample of all of Sherman's march? In other words, if, I dunno, 1% of all of Sherman's men had Henrys, then only 1% of the reenactors should have them?

Or is it being presented as a clash between a few specific regiments? In other words, if 50% of the Massachusetts Invincibles had Henrys when they fought the 999th Georgia Militia's smoothbores, then 50% of the men in that regiment should have Henrys.

If it's the latter, then I think it's a perfect example of how Henrys or any other unusual impression can be integrated into reenactments, while preserving their historic context. An unusual impression is no longer unusual, if you're reenacting a specific situation where it was common.


Sorry, I see no reason to go that far and take out my best CS Kit, so you can play "Vietnam Ambush"! All Weekend!

You oughta try being a civilian! At most events, we show up to be stolen from, threatened, chased, insulted, with no chance of ever having the upper hand. A man can at least decide to switch to military and pick the winning side for an event if he gets tired of it, but women are stuck, and the most they can hope for, if they don't want to be on the losing end, are non-combat or homefront events.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[PetePaolillo]

Yes! Henry's can be used to great affect. Yes! SHermans army had Henry's in 1864. But not HALF his Army! And this is how "Bummers" is panning out to be. So you take this great idea of a re-creation of Shermans Army in Georgia and the Georgia Militia trying to stop them. But you bastard up all that "HISTORY" has told us by telling the Rebs they must have smoothbores and 50 rounds only, when the Yanks will be mostly armed with Henry's and Spencer's, and (from what I have heard), told to bring atleast 400 to 500 rounds EACH!

Sorry, I see no reason to go that far and take out my best CS Kit, so you can play "Vietnam Ambush"! All Weekend!

I notice you are discussing an event that you are not even registered to go to...I would like you to view the Federal and Confederate equipment guidelines for the event as it pertains to the weapons. Henry repeating rifles are third on the Federals list which means the other two are preferred first. The Federals will be mostly carrying muskets my friend. I am bringing my Enfield and 50 rounds. No more!!! Confederates have a larger choice than you claim as well. Not sure where you are getting your info but you are wrong....So sign up so you cornfeds can at least have a shot at making some foragers lives miserable!!!Just like history showed...In case you are a litlle foggy on what happened during Shermans March, Here is a great reading list for you to consider.

1) Burge, Dolly Lunt (Author) and Carter, Christine Jacobson (Editor). The Diary of Dolly Lunt Burge 1848-1879. Athens, Georgia: University of Georgia Press, May 1997.
2) Glatthaar, Joseph, T. The March to the Sea and Beyond. New York, New York: New York University Press, 1985. LSU Press Edition (Paperback) Published by LSU Press, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 1995.
3) Hitchcock, Henry. Marching With Sherman. New Haven, Connecticut: Yale University Press, 1927. Reprinted - First Bison Book Printing by the University of Nebraska Press, 1995.
4) Scaife, William R. and Bragg, William H. Joe Brown's Pets: The Georgia Militia, 1862–1865. Macon, Georgia: Mercer University Press, 2004.
5) Sherman, William Tecumseh. Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman. New York, New York: Appleton Press, 1875. Reprinted - New York, New York: Da Capo Press, Inc. 1984 (With New Introduction By William S. McFeely).
6) War Department, U.S. Record & Pension Office. War Records Office, et al. The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies - Series One - Volume 44. Washington DC: Government Printing Office, 1893. Click Here to Visit Full On-Line Version (http://library5.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=ANU4519-0092).

Federal Guidlines

CARTRIDGE BOX: Bring 50 Rounds Please -

Must Have Tins. Correct Period Construction US Issue .58 or .69 Caliber Box with US Box Plate, Sling and U.S. Breast Plate.


CAP POUCH: Bring 60 Caps Please -
Must Have Wool Liner. 1) U.S. M 1850. 2) U.S. Shield Front.


WAISTBELT:
1) Late War Leather Belt with Brass Keeper Strongly Preferred. or 2) Early War Leather Belt with Leather Loop. Blackened Buff Acceptable But Not Required. U.S. Issue Belt Plate: Puppy Paws Under the "S" Are Preferred.


FIREARM
(We Strongly Encourage Weapons That Have All Modern Markings Removed). 1) M1853 Enfield. 2) M1861 Springfield. 3) Henry Repeating Rifles. Appropriate Rifle Sling (Optional). No 2-Banded Weapons.



Confederate guidelines
FIREARM: (BRING 50 ROUNDS & 60 CAPS) 1) Citizen-Style Shotguns or Citizen Hunting Rifles. 2) '42 Springfield. 3) P53 Enfield. 4) Austrian Lorenz. Bayonets Are Optional.



http://www.bummers09.com/Guidelines.html

[Blair]

Two band Rifles with 33 inch barrels, a standard Infantry Skirmishing firearm are not allowed?
Is this due to the age old issue of the shorter barrel length is unsafe?
How is it then that the 24 inch barrel length of the Henry is safe as an Infantry firearm?
Or the unknown barrel length of civilian shot guns and sporting rifles that are being allowed for the Confederate forces.
This is sounding curiouser and curiouser the more I here about it.

[PetePaolillo]

Two band Rifles with 33 inch barrels, a standard Infantry Skirmishing firearm are not allowed?
Is this due to the age old issue of the shorter barrel length is unsafe?
How is it then that the 24 inch barrel length of the Henry is safe as an Infantry firearm?
Or the unknown barrel length of civilian shot guns and sporting rifles that are being allowed for the Confederate forces.
This is sounding curiouser and curiouser the more I here about it.

Curiouser?? Blair Blair Blair:p

[Blair]

Hay Pete, My spell check recognized it. What more can I say

[PetePaolillo]

Hay Pete, My spell check recognized it. What more can I say
Your spell checker is broken;) lol

[Eric Tipton]

Wow. So many half-truths, misperceptions and bad information, it is hard to tell where to start. Given that I am one of the organizers for the event, I could probably provide more accurate information than your perpetual "I heard this" and "I heard that".

“Mind those that haven't been paying attention to the Bummers event, or any type of event that is non-spectator, foraging parties are limited to 25 men. Not exactly a large number -but is the size an entire company by 1864.”

Mark:

We are portraying "Foraging Parties", not companies. This is essential to the structure of the event, which is based on the actual method by which the foraging parties were formed. This has been tough to explain to people because they are so used to the company structure for events. We covered this topic in our announcement - “Bummers Federal Structure” in September of 2008 here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19353

FROM "THE MARCH TO THE SEA AND BEYOND" By Joseph Glatthaar - "Initially, Sherman hoped to organize foragers for each brigade, but that soon proved unsatisfactory, since too many division commanders sent out only fifty men per brigade, not enough to provide for all the troops. As the brigade organization began to break down, many commanders decentralized the system even more and had each regimental commander assign foraging duties to one or two companies. The forage they gathered no longer went to the brigade commissary; it went directly to the men in each regiment."

You will notice that they assigned the foraging duties to one or two companies from each regiment. By your math, if the companies were at around twenty-five men by this point in the war, then twenty-five would be about right.

“Yes! Henry's can be used to great affect. Yes! Sherman’s army had Henry's in 1864. But not HALF his Army! And this is how "Bummers" is panning out to be.”

Not sure where you heard this one, but out of the seventeen Foraging Parties that are being formed, only one is making a push for Henrys - the 1st Missouri, of the 1st Division, 15th Corps. I can honestly say that there was some debate as to how many Henrys this regiment possessed, but one out of seventeen is a far cry from half of Sherman’s Army. If you want to stick a percentage on this, five percent of our Foraging Parties are planning on Henrys, and out of that group, I don’t believe that all of them will be carrying a Henry.

Paul, if that is your real name:

“So you take this great idea of a re-creation of Shermans Army in Georgia and the Georgia Militia trying to stop them. But you bastard up all that "HISTORY" has told us by telling the Rebs they must have smoothbores and 50 rounds only, when the Yanks will be mostly armed with Henry's and Spencer's, and (from what I have heard), told to bring at least 400 to 500 rounds EACH!”

I don’t know where you are getting your information. If your are basing your posts on hearsay, I’d suggest against that, because your credibility will suffer for it. If you had checked the web site, or the announcements that we have made on the AC, you would know that the Federals are expected to bring fifty rounds.

As Pete pointed out, you don’t need to go any further than the Guidelines page of the Bummers web site for this information:

http://www.bummers09.com/Guidelines.html

“Sorry, I see no reason to go that far and take out my best CS Kit, so you can play "Vietnam Ambush"! All Weekend!”

I should also mention that this is decidedly not going to be a “shoot-em-up”. The vast majority of engagements between the Bummers and the Militia were short affairs in which the Militia would surprise a Foraging Party, and depending on the size of each force, they would break off the attack once the “Bummers” gathered their forces. Smaller Foraging Parties were susceptible to being captured if they wandered too far from the main body… which is why we are warning Foraging Parties not to stray too far, lest they be captured.

I have some suggestions for you that I will make in earnest.

First, read the history. We did. Actually, we have read each book that is on the reading list, believe it or not:

http://www.bummers09.com/History.html

Second, instead of perpetuating half-truths, innuendo and rumor, shoot us an e-mail. We have plastered it all over each of our announcements. The address is: bummers2009@yahoo.com. Heck, we might even give you our phone number if we aren’t able to clarify things for you over an e-mail. And if you don’t want to send an e-mail or call us, you can follow our event folder here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=113

Or, we even have a handy-dandy web site, set up especially for the event. That can be found here:

http://www.bummers09.com/

Third, and lastly, if you don’t want to go to the event, that’s fine. There are many events to choose from and it would seem like a large waste of your time to type and type, and type about an event that you are not attending.

Hopefully, we have answered your questions and provided ample sources from which to gather future information.

Hank to answer your valid question: “Is Bummers being presented as a representative sample of all of Sherman's march? In other words, if, I dunno, 1% of all of Sherman's men had Henrys, then only 1% of the reenactors should have them?”

Yes, we are representing a slice of the right wing of Sherman’s March - The 1st Division, 15th Corps. This Division was selected, because it came the closest to the area where the event is being held. The Georgia Militia was also quite active right in the area where the event is being held. Now, in terms of the percentage of Sherman’s army that carried Henrys, I can not tell you for sure, but they certainly will be in the vast minority at Bummers.

[Blair]

Ok. Pretend you didn't see that part and we will all pretend all these civilian shot guns, and the Thompson Center sporting rifles will be de farbed like the Military firearms requirement. Let us not forget Henry's too, and none with serial number higher than 14,500 will not be allowed either.
Aside from all that pertending, I think I have a valid question, which was... hmm?

[Eric Tipton]

Blair:

You have raised a vaild question. I am decidely not a firearms expert, and will pass this along to another member of the organizing committee to respond.

[MarkTK36thIL]

Eric,
I had meant by 25 men as being a company sized element is by 1-4 years of war and toil and attrition being on a company, and 25 men being a late war size company in some respects. My example being from the 93rd IL, Co. I. But I got your point though.

[Eric Tipton]

Mark:

Honestly, I mixed some of my response to you and "Paul". Didn't mean any disrespect you you as I know that you were asking honest questions and are experienced in these types of events.

The Henry discussion has been quite lively on the AC as you know. I just wanted to clarify the actual numbers before it gets out-of-hand again.

In terms of the Foraging Parties, that structure is quite different than what is normally done and has been something that we have tried to clarify numerous times. We will continue to do so as the event approaches.

As far as "Paul" goes, unless he can prove otherwise, I am quite certain that he is a troll trying to stir the pot - thus the tone of my response to him.

[tompritchett]

As far as "Paul" goes, unless he can prove otherwise, I am quite certain that he is a troll trying to stir the pot - thus the tone of my response to him.

Given the number of posts that he has made here in the past, I would not necessarily say that he is a troll, but I would not disagree about the stirring the pot part.

[Eric Tipton]

Tom:

I wouldn't necessarily judge a troll based on the number of posts they have made. Some of their counts are higher than the normal denizens of the forum. ;)

[plankmaker]

ET,

What perzactly are you implying? I was actually seen last Friday and dispensed handshakes and hugs to several posters here (no, the post sitter did not get a hug). Does an actual person spotting make them less of a troll? I know people who actually exist and express their personal opinions on here and are serious that do a better job of trolling.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[PetePaolillo]

ET,

What perzactly are you implying? I was actually seen last Friday and dispensed handshakes and hugs to several posters here (no, the post sitter did not get a hug). Does an actual person spotting make them less of a troll? I know people who actually exist and express their personal opinions on here and are serious that do a better job of trolling.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN


Oh he exists alright...but he states in his previous posts that he only attends 2 events a year..... decides for whatever reason to bash an event ( he is not even attending)...that has over 300 registered so far and is shaping up to be one of the biggest and best events of the year and possibly ever. He bases his posts on lies ,hearsay, overactive imagination and what ever else implores him....If that is not trolling..nothing is!!!!

[Coatsy]

"Vietnam Ambush"! All Weekend!”

For those who are interested in attending the event this statement is not the case. It sounds like someone is thinking about a different time period and different event.

Being a member of the Georgia Militia over the course of the weekend at Bummers will not be glamorous or easy. Historically these men trying to defend their state were constantly pushed back by overwhelming numbers. True they did manage to slow portions of the Federal army. At Oconee River Bridge and outside of Millen they manage to slow some Federals down, but they were eventually outflanked.

Scaife and Bragg's "Joe Brown's Pets", Trudeau's "Southern Storm", and the classic "Sherman's March" by Burke Davis are all great door openers to begin reading up on this time period. If you are feeling adventuresome or actually want to delve a little deeper the ORs are there to make you crossed eyed late in the evening. Google Books is an excellent source for getting snippets out of books for this time period. Research is a good thing. You learn more as you get into it. But book reading can be considered a little tougher by some than going to a Vietnam reenactment and shooting 400 Henry rounds or whatever is happening at this alternative event that I am not familiar with. (I don't think there is a 'Battle of Vietnam' Georgia)

We are sticking to what happened in the history books. Tipton put it best when he classifies this event as "Slice of Life".

If you want to bring 400 rounds to an event Bummers is NOT the one to do so at. I am sure that there are other events this year that for people to do so.

~Herb,
One of those Bummers guys.

[RJSamp]

decides for whatever reason to bash an event ( he is not even attending)

reenactors raise questions about events before the event all of the time on forums......and they aren't even thinking about attending the event (and quite possibly because the answers they are getting aren't what they want to hear). On another thread on this forum non attending reenactors questioned armaments ratios, etc. I'm unable to attend Bummers, but certainly hope the commanding officer is simply a Senior Captain as opposed to a 'Colonel' of a 'Regiment'...and that the foraging parties are commanded by Lieutenants.


that has over 300 registered so far and is shaping up to be one of the biggest ... events of the year....

Biggest? This year? No.

[tompritchett]

If that is not trolling..nothing is!!!!

In my book there is a difference between being a troll and just being a pain in the fanny perpendicular. As I see it a troll is someone who either posts anonymously or under a psuedo-name. Pains will use their real names. The context and/or the negativity of their posts may be the same; it is just how they represent themselves that differentiates the two.

[PetePaolillo]

reenactors raise questions about events before the event all of the time on forums......and they aren't even thinking about attending the event (and quite possibly because the answers they are getting aren't what they want to hear). On another thread on this forum non attending reenactors questioned armaments ratios, etc. I'm unable to attend Bummers, but certainly hope the commanding officer is simply a Senior Captain as opposed to a 'Colonel' of a 'Regiment'...and that the foraging parties are commanded by Lieutenants.




Biggest? This year? No.

He is not raising questions he is flat out telling lies. If he is even considering going than why not ask questions to the organizers of the events? No it is better than to stir the pot I guess.....yes each foraging party will be commanded by a Captain or Lt.

As far as a authentic event yes it will be up there...I am not talking about Funnel cake fests

[PetePaolillo]

In my book there is a difference between being a troll and just being a pain in the fanny perpendicular. As I see it a troll is someone who either posts anonymously or under a psuedo-name. Pains will use their real names. The context and/or the negativity of their posts may be the same; it is just how they represent themselves that differentiates the two.


Well he may be using his real name but it is crystal clear to me that he likes to do nothing productive on this board than to argue and troll for people to fight with. If this makes him a pain in the peroindicular as you say than that is what he is:p

[Ken Cornett]

Biggest? Maybe. Maybe not. We aren't worried about that. We just want it to be a good event. One you will remember.

RJ...if you go over to our website you can read how things are set up. Or, you can go to the AC and you will find our structure on there as well. EVERYONE knows by now that no rank higher than Captain is being portrayed on the Fed side. There are no "commands" inside each foraging party, just a ranking person to help make desicions. No roll calls, no reports, etc. If someone strays...so be it. They best look out for the militia.

Also, this is not a shootem' up event. It is a foraging event. It's a tough one to convey because reenactors are so use to structure. We added some form of structure to help divide the masses that register. That's all.

[flattop32355]

But you bastard up all that "HISTORY" has told us by telling the Rebs they must have smoothbores and 50 rounds only, when the Yanks will be mostly armed with Henry's and Spencer's, and (from what I have heard), told to bring atleast 400 to 500 rounds EACH!

If it makes you feel better, the foraging party for the 30th OVI should be armed with 1853 Enfields. That's the last arm we are known to have been supplied with. I'll let you know if I find out anything different.

[Coatsy]

"I'm unable to attend Bummers, but certainly hope the commanding officer is simply a Senior Captain as opposed to a 'Colonel' of a 'Regiment'"

Good point RJ. And it is true. The senior officer of the Federals, Tripp Corbin, is a "senior" Captain. Now for folks that want structure structure structure the Georiga Militia has that set up at the event.

[Tiger_rifles]

Well he may be using his real name but it is crystal clear to me that he likes to do nothing productive on this board than to argue and troll for people to fight with. If this makes him a pain in the peroindicular as you say than that is what he is:p

Gentlemen! Has the forum gone MAD? Lets all take a breath here and stop the attacks!

First, I am not attacking the "Bummers March" event! All that I have said was in ref. to another thread,(and how my comments from that thread got moved and taken out of context I do not know), that was talking about the use and/or OVER-USE of Henry's at CW RE-enactments. I used the Bummers event as an example of how the use of Henry's can get out of control,(just like this issue/thread!).

I must tell you all that I am not really sure what a "Troll" is, but I can guess from some of your comments. I can assure you all that Paul Bennett is my real name, and I do truely live and breath just West of Loveland Colo.,(Mr. Paolilo, that is why I only attend one or two events a year. There are no local CW events here so I must drive, often 18 to 24 hours one way! You would know that if you truely had read some of my posts.). I have NEVER had a 2nd account on ANY of these forums!,(how many of you can say that!), and have always used my real name, location, etc... No I do not live in a hole, but I do live in a log cabin with my wife, 3 kids, 3 horses, and two dogs. I have been CW Re-enacting for 30 years now,(Started when I was 14 yoa at the Manassas Battlefield Park as a Volunteer, You can call Jim Burgess at the Park if you wanna check that out!).I have been to more re-enactments than I can count, worked on 4 National Battlefield Parks, and each year go and talk to kids about CW, Rev War, and 1812 at about 2 to 3 dozen schools. You may not have seen my name on too many roles at your "Big Events" as I often register using the name of one of my over two dozen relations that fought in the "War of Northern Aggression". From the Event rules there is nothing wrong with that and as I feel I am trying to honor these men I see it as fitting. When the rules say use your real name....I do. It is true I am not on this forum posting all the time, I guess you would say my Post count is very low, but I try to speak only when i have something to say and not just to "chat". Also, I am no expert like the honorable Herr Schmidt, Blair, or Mr. Pritchett,(Mr. Pritchett I would like to thank you for the "Pain in the Fanny" comment, that is the nicest thing anybody has said to me on this forum!), and I have not written any books like Mr. Barry, but I treasure thier comments, replys and wisdom as if it were Gold! This means I read alot on this forum and others, w/o posting. Also, with 3 kids, 3 horses, two dogs and a house to deal with, I can only get onto this forum about once a day. So please let me reply to your attacks one at a time, as they seem to be really piling up here!
So, Gentlemen..... I am real enuff for you all? Or do you need to be-little me and call me names and claim that I am "NOT REALLY PAUL", to try and make your points with the other readers?

As for Bummers, No I am not registered. At this time, as I have already stated, this event is too far to drive, and it seems to it could turn out to be a big dissapointment for anyone portraying the Rebs. It has been stated that the US troops already out number the CS troops 3 to 1 in registration. The US troops will have Enfields, Springfields, Henry's and Spencers, were the CS troops 1st choice are shotguns and hunting rifles. These are all facts listed on the Bummers web-site, not "lies" that I made up! Thank you Mr. Paolillo for posting the "Guidelines" for Bummers, now we can clearly see that it states that the CS Militia should bring "50 rounds and 60 caps", but that the US side should bring "50 rounds"....."Please", not "Only" or "Max", or "Total", but 50 rounds "Please". This sure sounds like "bring what you can carry" to me. And yes I have read posts that some plan to bring/smuggle in, 400 to 500 Henry rounds!,Mr. Tipton, (if that is your REAL Name!), if you think that this forum and the AC are the only two places, forums, yahoogroups that people are making plans for the Bummers Event.......you are sadly ignorant! It is also a stated fact that these "Foraging Parties" of 25 men, will be carrying Henry's. According to "44 Henry" and his statement from Mr Winchester, a Henry can put out 15 rounds in 60 seconds while the enemy w/a muzzle loader can only get out one round,(This is one of the many "How the Henry Rifle Won the Civil War" stories we were discussing in the original thread), so if we apply our 2nd grade math and some common sense,( another concept we discussed in the Original thread), that is 375 rounds in 60 seconds! Sure sounds like a "Dirty Rebel Turkey Shot" to me.
So with this in mind, I do not think I will travel so far and spend so much to be shot to pieces by 25 men with Henry's.

Gentlemen, if I have truely told a "LIE" here I am sorry. Please address those statements to me and I will correct them and apoligize. But if you go back and read what I said, I think you will find, I was merely stating my opinion about an Event that has not happened yet. Now if my words make the planners of this event go back and change some things, ( like not allowing "2-banders" but we can bring shotguns, hunting rifles, etc...Thank you Mr. Blair for pointing this out, missed it myself), to be more correct, heck I just may join you boys! May even get the chance to give a proper "Hello" to Mr. Tipton and Mr. Paolillo!

Its been interesting Gents, but I must get off here now to feed horses and go to work. I will try and get back on this forum later today, to answer more of your insults, jabs, and beratements.
Good Day.

p.s. "Kiss your Mother with those mouths?"

[plankmaker]

Don't sweat it. I have been called a troll, boo bird, and much worse things on here over the years for questioning some individual's statements and questioning the motives of others. Have fun, let it roll off your back and just participate.

Who makes the best Billy Goats Gruff?

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[Tiger_rifles]

Don't sweat it. I have been called a troll, boo bird, and much worse things on here over the years for questioning some individual's statements and questioning the motives of others. Have fun, let it roll off your back and just participate.

Who makes the best Billy Goats Gruff?

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

Thank you Sir for your kind words. I have already posted a request on your other thread ref. my "Troll" application.

Now what exactly is a "boo bird" and how would one go about earning this title? Are these some form of ribbon or metal I could "Hand-stitch" to my Uniform?

p.s. Is this anything like a "Snipe"???

[plankmaker]

Naw, no badge of honor or anything. When they start attacking too hard just ask them if they enjoy the dark, damp smelly place, and if having their head stuck up there muffles the sound.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[plankmaker]

How about banjos? Will there be a pie foraging scenerio?

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[Eric Tipton]

Mark:

We haven't quite decided between pie and cake. Pie has been overrepresented in my opinion. Maybe the day for cake has arrived.

For the Bummers, I wouldn't suggest bringing a banjo, but we may strategically place Militia with banjos to strike terror into the Federals. Oh, that reminds me, there will probably be pork.

[plankmaker]

If pork is to be served, just remember that the period correct slaw must be served on the side. If you really want to strike fear in the hearts of the northern invaders, have the guerillas tell them they have "purty mouths."

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[tompritchett]

First of all. Let's all cool down. Calling people trolls is something that we take very serious here and, as some of you will notice, it is something that can get your posts removed. Paul when I referred to you as being a "pain in the fanny" I was not specifically referring to you but rather to the fact that, when individuals start calling others trolls here, it is because these individuals typically consider the others to be such. If you took that as a direct comment towards you, I apologize.

Also Paul, I was the one that created the repeaters at Bummers thread after he went off on me about the ratio of repeaters at the event, even though I have nothing to do with the event (technically, I copied your post rather than moved it as the original can still be found in the Henry thread). Whether or not Bummers was the underlieing reason for the original thread, it was not a major topic of the thread. Rather the primary focus had been on the historical usage of repeaters and their general appropriateness at events. When you so clearly focussed on Bummers (I would submit that you did more than just use it as an example as it seemed to expose a great deal of angst and frustration on your part when it came out in your post), I realized that this in itself would become its own topic and, consequently, I made the decision to bring out all the posts in the thread that referred to the Bummers event. Given the additional new posts in this thread, it looks like my decision was indeed appropriate.

[Eric Tipton]

Now Mark, wherever did that come from? ;)

[deletion - THP; In answer to your question Eric, not for long]

[plankmaker]

ET,

Neener, neener, neener, is much more period correct. Get with the program already.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[Eric Tipton]

ET, Neener, neener, neener, is much more period correct. Get with the program already. Mark Campbell, Piney Flats, TN

What about nanny, nanny, boo boo?

[plankmaker]

Only if followed by a huzzah and a hearty "All for the Union."

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[Ken Cornett]

Wow, this thread is so silly and I get zapped for a one liner. I'm going to go play on the monkey bars now.

[Blair]

Well, thanks for the promise to get back with me on the firearms questions I had earlier in this thread, but I will pass on all counts. Thank you for a very eye opening and mind expanding... uh discussion?

[plankmaker]

ET,

For this to be awetentick, you will need wheelbarrows as well, lots and lots of wheel barrows. From photographs of Sherman's March to the Sea, he was very fond of wheelbarrows and used them in a multitude of fashions. They would also allow your foragers to economize effort.http:


//www.mdgorman.com/Photographs/Anthony/3503.htm

To all the other boo birds, we are here to help, really and truly.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[PetePaolillo]

Wow, this thread is so silly and I get zapped for a one liner. I'm going to go play on the monkey bars now.

Hey Ken...I will race you there. Ready! Set! Go!!:p

[Justin Runyon]

I had every intention of staying out of this mess, and still will as far as Bummers is concerned (as I am not part of the event organization. I will, however, clarify one statement that I am qualified to.


You are one of those AC forum carry overs trying to get those of us on this forum to go to your event, so you can donate our money in the name of the "AC Forum" with no mention of where most of those registered really came from.


Paul Calloway and I own and run the AC. There have never been any preservation donations made in the name of that website that were not collected directly from the site itself, mostly in the form of the former ACPP ran by Mike Chapman.

That is all.

[tompritchett]

Sorry Ken, when I have no more than 10 or 15 minute windows at a time to moderator something that is quickly turning into a major trainwreck, I have a tendency to adopt the Marine motto of kill them all and let God sort them. Even now, the more time I spend here, the later I will be picking up my wife from work.