Confederate Memorial Day Ceremony Arlington June 7, 2009

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

SCV Telegraph
News for SCV members




Compatriots,

There is a horrid letter that has recently been posted and is starting to be picked up by some media. It is a letter that attacks not only the Confederacy but any one who memorializes it. It was addressed to President Obama urging him not to continue the practice of the President sending a wreath to the Confederate Monument in Arlington National Cemetery, which has been in practice since 1914.
The author is the serial South-hater ed sebesta and is signed by terrorist bill ayers--yes that bill ayers. The SCV began this afternoon sending out the following press release to all major media sources. I urge you all to send the releasae to news sources in you local areas as well.
Good Hunting
Chuck McMichael
CiC


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

For Immediate Release:

The Sons of Confederate Veterans urge President Obama to continue the long standing tradition of sending a wreath to the Confederate Monument in Arlington Cemetery. This tradition began with President Woodrow Wilson in 1914 when he spoke at the dedication of the monument and should be continued as it is an important part of the civic and memorial life of the nation.

There has recently been a letter circulated urging President Obama to forgo the practice of sending a wreath to the monument in Arlington. That letter is filled with false conjectures and absolute lies about the history of the Confederacy and the remembrance of it in our nation. It is signed by supposed "academics and scholars". Two of the signers of this letter are Bill Ayers and his wife, once members of the radical Weather Undergound who have admitted their part in conducting terrorist bombings against the police and government facilities of the United States. Furthermore others that signed this letter are avowed Marxists who are enemies of the American way of life.

Beside long standing tradition, President Obama should send a wreath to the Confederate Monument at Arlington Cemetery because all Confederate Veterans have the status as American Veterans as well.
Several acts of Congress have defined Veterans of the Confederate States of America as American Veterans due the same benefits and honors as any other American Veteran.


End Release

On Background:
Organizational Contacts
Commander in Chief Chuck McMichael 318-963-9892
Lt. Commander in Chief Michael Givens 843-252-1860
Chief of Staff Chuck Rand 318-387-3791
Head of Public Relations Jeff Davis 770 297-4788


Three of the laws referenced in the release:

P.L. 38, 59th Congress, Chap. 631-34 Stat. 56)
U.S. Public Law 810, Approved by 17th Congress 26 February 1929
(45 Stat 1307 - Currently on the books as 38 U.S. Code, Sec. 2306)

This law, passed by the U.S. Congress, authorized the "Secretary of War to erect headstones over the graves of soldiers who served in the Confederate Army and to direct him to preserve in the records of the War Department the names and places of burial of all soldiers for whom such headstones shall have been erected."

U.S. Public Law 85-425: Sec. 410 Approved 23 May 1958
(US Statutes at Large Volume 72, Part 1, Page 133-134)

The Administrator shall pay to each person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such person under the laws in effect on December 31, 1957, if his service in such forces had been service in the military or naval forces of the United States.

U.S. Code Title 38 - Veterans' Benefits, Part II -

General Benefits, Chapter 15 - Pension for Non-Service-Connected Disability or Death or for Service, Subchapter I - General, § 1501. Definitions: (3) The term "Civil War veteran" includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term "active military or naval service" includes active service in those forces.




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[jthlmnn]

Save the adrenalin. The White House has already announced the President Obama will continue the custom. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-obamaconfed_24nat.ART.State.Edition1.50cc1ac.html

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

Save the adrenalin. The White House has already announced the President Obama will continue the custom. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-obamaconfed_24nat.ART.State.Edition1.50cc1ac.html

I saw that too. I'll believe it when it gets there.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

I guess the president was a little underwhelmed with the 66 signatures on the petition.

[tpr1960]

Did I read that correctly , James McPherson signed the petition to the president also ? How could that be ? If so "Battle Cry of Freedom" will be in the firepit by nightfall .

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Did I read that correctly , James McPherson signed the petition to the president also ? How could that be ? If so "Battle Cry of Freedom" will be in the firepit by nightfall .

You're kidding right? You mean you read that book cover to cover and couldn't figure out the Union slant? He may be a learned scholar, but each and every book he has written, and every appearance he's made in person and on television, is so pro-Union it is sickening. I most definitely was not surprised to see his name on the petition. You are much better served by reading unbiased writers like James Robertson, Shelby Foote, and Peter Cuzzons if you truly want history and not perspective.

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

Did I read that correctly , James McPherson signed the petition to the president also ? How could that be ? If so "Battle Cry of Freedom" will be in the firepit by nightfall .

Yes , I caught that too. No bias there, but as Ross pointed out , to be expected from McPherson.

[tpr1960]

I understand and expect McPherson's Unionist slant , what surprised me was his putting a signature on a petition to stop honoring Confederate veterans . Nobody , author , historian , history teacher , Joe Blow from Massachusetts , should EVER sign a petition to discredit ANY veteran of the United States , as all Confederates were and are . ..... And I have read Cozzens , Sears , Foote , Wheeler , you name them they are probably on the bookshelf . ...... Government job , alot of downtime , a book a weeks worth .

[dale beasley]

This is one of the problems I have with the SCV, making an issue before it is an issue.

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

This is one of the problems I have with the SCV, making an issue before it is an issue.

Once it was clear that President Obama was ignoring the suggestion of Ayers , Mc Pherson et al , it immediately issued a press release congratulating the President on his correct decision. It clearly was an issue before that event.

[Pvt Schnapps]

"The day's only real flutter of controversy was Obama's decision to send a wreath to the cemetery's Confederate Memorial, despite pleas that he discontinue the presidential tradition. Obama also had a wreath delivered to the African American Civil War Memorial at 10th and U streets NW, honoring the more than 200,000 blacks who fought for the Union."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/25/AR2009052500249.html

I'm glad to see the USCT got some flowers too at last.

Maybe next year the President can send flowers to this other monument to Americans who fought for freedom:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/31/BAB6VSI4R.DTL

After all, if Americans who fought against the republic can have such recognition, the "premature anti-fascists" of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade are long over-due.

No pasaran!

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Ummm...I'm a little lost...but the laying of wreaths really shouldn't be countenanced as merely 'tradition'.

Our Federal Goverment has set aside the 'special' horored Memorial Day holiday to honor ALL Americans...so really, there ought be wreaths/flag/flowers on every Memorial/Headstone throughout the country...

While the Feds may not be able to support that throughout the country, it ought to at least make sure all honor & respect is showed to all Soldiers/Patriots who have monuments/memorials within the DC Metro area...

Paul B.

[dale beasley]

To me....

At this time I have withdrew my membership with the SCV, for several rerasons. One, amount of money they spent on the Jefferson Davis and the Black child statue. Two, they have become more of a victim group than other groups we have been having to hear from. Three, the publication that they put out is totally a waste of money, it just repeats itself.

These are just my opinions,

[sbl]

After all, if Americans who fought against the republic can have such recognition, the "premature anti-fascists" of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade are long over-due.

No pasaran!

There are reenactors.

http://www.portalhistoria.com/imagenes/galeria%20de%20imagenes/Album%20Torre%20de%20Arcas/images/c5f6.jpg

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

To me....

At this time I have withdrew my membership with the SCV, for several rerasons. One, amount of money they spent on the Jefferson Davis and the Black child statue. Two, they have become more of a victim group than other groups we have been having to hear from. Three, the publication that they put out is totally a waste of money, it just repeats itself.

These are just my opinions,

Always sorry to lose a member.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

To me....

At this time I have withdrew my membership with the SCV, for several rerasons. One, amount of money they spent on the Jefferson Davis and the Black child statue. Two, they have become more of a victim group than other groups we have been having to hear from. Three, the publication that they put out is totally a waste of money, it just repeats itself.

These are just my opinions,

You're not alone. I've counted at least a dozen from my former camp in the last 5 years, good Southernors all, who tired of the politics, infighting, and money going to the Southern Party and League of the South instead of preservation and education. It split my camp into two factions, creating a new camp for the fire-eaters and one for the less pro-active. The SCV of old that was formed to honour the memory of our ancestors has morphed into a political organization to thrust the battleflag into the bellies of all opposed, with every differing view or opinion becoming a "Heritage Violation". There are thousands of good, upstanding SCV members, and very, very few bads ones, but you are judged by those you associate with, and the bad ones are the most vociferous and active. Its a shame, but I can continue to honour the south and my ancestors in a less political, more educational climate and do so at every opportunity.

[dale beasley]

ok...look at it this way...when you read my hometown newspaper, the clowns that are dressed up would blow your mind...gosh I wish I could find the last picture...

Maybe we should start a thread on what the SCV needs to change?

[tompritchett]

Maybe we should start a thread on what the SCV needs to change?

This topic has popped up in several threads in the past, usually in the Flags & Statue conference or the Whine Cellar.

[RebelBugler]

"The day's only real flutter of controversy was Obama's decision to send a wreath to the cemetery's Confederate Memorial, despite pleas that he discontinue the presidential tradition. Obama also had a wreath delivered to the African American Civil War Memorial at 10th and U streets NW, honoring the more than 200,000 blacks who fought for the Union."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/25/AR2009052500249.html

I'm glad to see the USCT got some flowers too at last.

Maybe next year the President can send flowers to this other monument to Americans who fought for freedom:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/31/BAB6VSI4R.DTL

After all, if Americans who fought against the republic can have such recognition, the "premature anti-fascists" of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade are long over-due.

No pasaran!

How dare you draw comparisons between officially recognized American Veterans and those individuals that fled their own country to meddle in the affairs of foreign governments?

I question your assertion that they were premature anti-fascists". One could legitimately argue that the Confederates were anti-fascists in their attempt to oppose Lincoln.

There is sufficient evidence indicating many of the Lincoln Brigade were avowed Communists. If memory serves me correctly, a number of the Brigade members were indicted by the US Government. I am unaware of any official US Government recognition heralding their voluntary service to the Spanish Republicans.

While Franco is no hero of mine, neither is the Lincoln Brigade.
The Spanish Republicans persecuted Catholics and other religious groups. Franco, if I recall, was very supportive of the Jewish population and offered sanctuary to those fleeing Germany and other European countries.

[Pvt Schnapps]

How dare you draw comparisons between officially recognized American Veterans and those individuals that fled their own country to meddle in the affairs of foreign governments?

I question your assertion that they were premature anti-fascists". One could legitimately argue that the Confederates were anti-fascists in their attempt to oppose Lincoln.

There is sufficient evidence indicating many of the Lincoln Brigade were avowed Communists. If memory serves me correctly, a number of the Brigade members were indicted by the US Government. I am unaware of any official US Government recognition heralding their voluntary service to the Spanish Republicans.

While Franco is no hero of mine, neither is the Lincoln Brigade.
The Spanish Republicans persecuted Catholics and other religious groups. Franco, if I recall, was very supportive of the Jewish population and offered sanctuary to those fleeing Germany and other European countries.


Took you long enough :)

But, on the other hand, how dare you compare men who fought against the stars and stripes with men whose only crime was to fight against fascism in Spain? Silly question, I know, but rather less so than yours.

Now that some time has passed, most folks don't view violation of the neutrality act in 1938 as any greater crime than what some called rebellion and treason in 1861. In fact, most folks don't view either service as crimes.

Unless of course they're still fighting either war.

And, just to clarify a couple items in the interim between now and when you actually bother to read a book on the subject, "premature antifascist" was a World War II era term referring to the foreign volunteers in Spain and, yes indeed, many of them were communists. Many others were anarchists or "wobblies" from the IWW. But a lot more Americans were communists and wobblies in the '30s than, say, in the '50s. And a lot more Americans were later called communists than actually paid dues. Smedley Butler comes to mind.

J. Edgar Hoover regarded Brigade veterans as suspect for the rest of his life, although several would go on to serve with distinction in the Second World War. One of these, Herman Boettcher, achieved the honor of serving as a major in two different armies, Spanish and United States (see, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Bottcher), before falling on the field of honor in Leyte.

My father served alongside a Brigade veteran in Korea. That was one marine who would certainly never surrender. Knowing that, I found it amusing that, when I first joined the government, the old security questionaire still asked applicants if they had any association with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.

The Abraham Lincoln Brigade represented an interesting phenomenon in American military history. They were the first fully integrated formation, with blacks and whites serving on an equal basis. They even became the first predominantly white unit commanded by a black officer -- Oliver Law, who was killed in action in the assault on Mosquito Ridge during the battle of Brunete.

Thank you for giving me an additional opportunity to celebrate Memorial Day as a time for paying respects to all American soldiers, including the ones you don't like.

[RebelBugler]

Took you long enough :)

But, on the other hand, how dare you compare men who fought against the stars and stripes with men whose only crime was to fight against fascism in Spain? Silly question, I know, but rather less so than yours.

Now that some time has passed, most folks don't view violation of the neutrality act in 1938 as any greater crime than what some called rebellion and treason in 1861. In fact, most folks don't view either service as crimes.

Unless of course they're still fighting either war.

And, just to clarify a couple items in the interim between now and when you actually bother to read a book on the subject, "premature antifascist" was a World War II era term referring to the foreign volunteers in Spain and, yes indeed, many of them were communists. Many others were anarchists or "wobblies" from the IWW. But a lot more Americans were communists and wobblies in the '30s than, say, in the '50s. And a lot more Americans were later called communists than actually paid dues. Smedley Butler comes to mind.

J. Edgar Hoover regarded Brigade veterans as suspect for the rest of his life, although several would go on to serve with distinction in the Second World War. One of these, Herman Boettcher, achieved the honor of serving as a major in two different armies, Spanish and United States (see, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Bottcher), before falling on the field of honor in Leyte.

My father served alongside a Brigade veteran in Korea. That was one marine who would certainly never surrender. Knowing that, I found it amusing that, when I first joined the government, the old security questionaire still asked applicants if they had any association with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.

The Abraham Lincoln Brigade represented an interesting phenomenon in American military history. They were the first fully integrated formation, with blacks and whites serving on an equal basis. They even became the first predominantly white unit commanded by a black officer -- Oliver Law, who was killed in action in the assault on Mosquito Ridge during the battle of Brunete.

Thank you for giving me an additional opportunity to celebrate Memorial Day as a time for paying respects to all American soldiers, including the ones you don't like.


Max, you must be aware that a number of Americans fought for Nazi Germany in World War ll. Should we honor them on Veteran's Day as well ?

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

Max, you must be aware that a number of Americans fought for Nazi Germany in World War ll. Should we honor them on Veteran's Day as well ?

Heck Bugler, they honor actual Nazis at Harvard , ...but not Confederates.
A lot of strange stuff out of Massachusetts.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Max, you must be aware that a number of Americans fought for Nazi Germany in World War ll. Should we honor them on Veteran's Day as well ?

The men of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade were not traitors to the United States. But thanks to them and the other Americans who fought fascism, it's a free country, so you go ahead and feel free to add to the list of heroes you honor on Confederate Veterans Day.

[sbl]

Heck Bugler, they honor actual Nazis at Harvard ,


Do you mean Ernst Franz Sedgwick Hanfstaeng?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/the_harvard_nazi/



A lot of strange stuff out of Massachusetts.

Yep! I'm eating the loser in drawn butter!

http://static.pyzam.com/img/funnypics/b/pyzamlobsterknife.jpg


...but not Confederates.


http://hul.harvard.edu/huarc/civil_war.shtml


"Harvard men in the Confederate service, 1861-1865, consists of news clippings (call # HUG 3286.14) "

'Generous instincts : remembering Harvard's Confederate alumni' by Lila Weston. Thesis (A.L.M. History--Harvard University, 1994 (call # HUB 1556.94.93 Box 75)

[RebelBugler]

The men of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade were not traitors to the United States. But thanks to them and the other Americans who fought fascism, it's a free country, so you go ahead and feel free to add to the list of heroes you honor on Confederate Veterans Day.

I have not proposed adding any individuals who were interventionists in non US sanctioned foreign wars, nor do I intend to. Rather than a desire to add to the list of heroes, I was offering the opinion that your undoubtedly well meaning proposal to honor the Lincoln Brigade was illogical, based upon misinformation and should be abandoned.;)

Perhaps the attached link might provide further clarification as to why bestowing Veterans honors on this controversial group is completely inappropriate:
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/lionmedia/lincolnbrigade.html

[hendrickms24]

I have not proposed adding any individuals who were interventionists in non US sanctioned foreign wars, nor do I intend to. Rather than a desire to add to the list of heroes, I was offering the opinion that your undoubtedly well meaning proposal to honor the Lincoln Brigade was illogical, based upon misinformation and should be abandoned.;)


I guess with your logic we should not honor the men that fought and died in the AVG since they also fought in "on US sanctioned foreign war" Heck your entitled to your own opinion! :rolleyes:

[Pvt Schnapps]

I have not proposed adding any individuals who were interventionists in non US sanctioned foreign wars, nor do I intend to. Rather than a desire to add to the list of heroes, I was offering the opinion that your undoubtedly well meaning proposal to honor the Lincoln Brigade was illogical, based upon misinformation and should be abandoned.;)

Perhaps the attached link might provide further clarification as to why bestowing Veterans honors on this controversial group is completely inappropriate:
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/lionmedia/lincolnbrigade.html


Herman Bottcher, Summa Cum Laude

By Sgt. John Rossen



How far is it, please

From Landsberg, Germany

(Which the Red Army took

this morning)

To a six-foot-plot

Of the lush soil of Leyte Isle?

How far from Southern California

To Aragon and Castile?

We were there at the command

Post

On a hill near Caspe

When the CO asked for volunteers

Hardly a chance in ten to

make it, he said

And you and Jim Ruskin stepped forward

How far from that blood-soaked Caspe road

That gulley of death at Pandols

Those shell-torn vineyards before Gandesa

Those waters of the Ebro in July 38

And Sierre Caballs in September –

From these how far

To a foxhole facing Buna Mission?

At the bivouac near Falset

Gathered round an evening

campfire

You gave us a political pep-talk

Speaking of German anti-Nazis

And the world-struggle against

the Fascist beast

What you said filled minds and

hearts

With the iron solidarity of

humankind

Herman Bottcher reckoned the distances

well

And his is an “A” forever and ever

In the subject of anti-Fascist

Geometry

The Graduation Exercise

Went off with a bang

And he was the Honor Student of

the Class

Graduating suddenly

With the speed of shrapnel from a

Jap mortar

At dawn of the last day of 1944)

When word of Munich reached us

Some cursed bitterly

And flung down their rifles

Many sank to the ground

As for you, Butch

Only the muscles around mouth

and eyes

Tightened and set

And more grimly did you bend

Over the pistol you were cleaning

Yes, he passed his exam with flying colors;

Now comes the test for us the living

The Final Exam for us the undergrads

Two billion students in a hundred million classrooms,

Located in many places on the face of the Earth

As for instance in the bitter cold of the Oder and Rhine Valleys

And in the stinking heart of jungle islands

In the ruins of Stalingrad and Warsaw

And in the fine drawing rooms of Park Avenue

And could not one go so far as to say

There are classrooms, too, on Pennsylvania Avenue

On Downing Street, and in the Kremlin Square?)

We heard you say once to a frightened Spanish youngster

“A real anti-Fascist must know how to die when necessary”

You were a real anti-Fascist, Butch

And you knew how to die when it became necessary.

Here’s the problem:

Compute the distance, militarily and politically

Using the formula of Teheran)

From Manila to Madrid

Strasbourg to Stockholm

Brussels to Buenos Aires

Bern to Bombay

Palestine to Puerto Rico

* * * *

When the Graduation Day comes

For all of humanity

And all the distance have been rightly reckoned

It would be well remembered

What a great teacher of Geometry

Was the anti-Fascist Herman Bottcher.





Camp Luna, New Mexico.

16 September 1945

[Robert A Mosher]

No pasaran, compadre -

At least some of us know where and when the war against fascism started - and it wasn't it Poland and it wasn't in Honolulu. It's also interesting to read about the number of Spanish Civil War veterans of the International Brigades who ended up fighting in other Allied armies and organizations such as the Long Range Desert Group and the SAS - and even more interesting to see how many of them Stalin had killed or tried to have killed, after all they knew more about the dangers of Stalinism than anyone else in the West. But this had nothing to do with their original decision to fight for the elected government of the Republic of Spain versus fighting on behalf of a military cabal.

Robert A. Mosher

[RebelBugler]

Herman Bottcher, Summa Cum Laude

By Sgt. John Rossen



How far is it, please

From Landsberg, Germany

(Which the Red Army took

this morning)

To a six-foot-plot.............................................. .......

When the Graduation Day comes

For all of humanity

And all the distance have been rightly reckoned

It would be well remembered

What a great teacher of Geometry

Was the anti-Fascist Herman Bottcher.

Camp Luna, New Mexico.

16 September 1945

Wow.... I admire how you wax poetic for a Lost Cause.....although you obviously view the Spanish Civil War in such black and white terms, attempting to claim the moral high ground for the anti-fascist Lincoln Brigade. Unfortunately, the conflict and the issues were not as simple as you try and portray.

Similarly, the WBTS was not as simple as you portend.....despite repeated attempts to claim the moral high ground for Lincoln and the north.

We do have something in common, however, in our passion for Lost Causes. I will continue to defend my Confederate of the South and you can continue to defend the Commissars of the Lincoln Brigade!

[Robert A Mosher]

Quote: Wow.... I admire how you wax poetic for a Lost Cause.....although you obviously view the Spanish Civil War in such black and white terms, attempting to claim the moral high ground for the anti-fascist Lincoln Brigade. Unfortunately, the conflict and the issues were not as simple as you try and portray.

Similarly, the WBTS was not as simple as you portend.....despite repeated attempts to claim the moral high ground for Lincoln and the north.

We do have something in common, however, in our passion for Lost Causes. I will continue to defend my Confederate of the South and you can continue to defend the Commissars of the Lincoln Brigade! End Quote

I have to say that I don't know you, I do know Mike and have had numerous conversations with him about both Civil Wars. If you believe that he paints a simple portrait of either conflict than you clearly need to spend more time listening to him because it just isn't so. I would add to his defense that unlike me, Mike portrays both Yankess and rebels. Personally, however complex I understand the conflict to be, the choice of which side I represent is the simplest part.

As for the Abraham Lincoln battalion and the International Brigades, a little more reading would demonstrate to you that in fact the "commissars" were the enemies of both the brigade and the battalion since Stalin did not trust either them or many of his own Soviet soldiers and airmen who fought in Spain. You could start with George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia," and then Hugh Thomas' "The Spanish Civil War" in its newest revised edition as well as Antony Beevor's "The Battle for Spain" - both Beevor and Thomas have written (or rewrittne) after getting the chance to examine the Soviet-era archives that became available after the fall of the Soviet Union. Good reading that demonstrates the real complexities of this conflict and how despite that complexity many were able to still make morally founded choices about what to do.

Robert A. Mosher

[quincey morris]

Kind of getting back on track, but is there a listing of the 66 folks who signed the petition and their university affliates?

At least the US and CS veterans have national memorials: the Mexican War Veterans never got a national monument, and thanks to current politics, probably never will....it took years to get the Palo Alto Battlefield created...

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

Kind of getting back on track, but is there a listing of the 66 folks who signed the petition and their university affliates?

At least the US and CS veterans have national memorials: the Mexican War Veterans never got a national monument, and thanks to current politics, probably never will....it took years to get the Palo Alto Battlefield created...

There is a moument to General Watson from the Mexican War in Baltimore.
A Marylander , not sure about the rank. Unfortunately, there are two WBTS Petersburg type mortars on the monument .


Found some details. Watson was a Colonel

http://www.dmwv.org/honoring/baltimore.htm


There is a list of other mouments.

[sbl]

Kind of getting back on track, but is there a listing of the 66 folks who signed the petition and their university affliates?

Check it out on-line. It's easy to find. I wrote earlier that "scary terrorist" William Ayers signed it.


At least the US and CS veterans have national memorials: the Mexican War Veterans never got a national monument, and thanks to current politics, probably never will....it took years to get the Palo Alto Battlefield created...

"Current politics" will have nothing to do with it as the number of actual US troops involved was relatively small and the war's legacy was quickly over shadowed by the CW/WBTS. The monuments are built because of interest and don't just happen, even if they should. PBS had a series on the Mexican War a couple of years ago but mass interest failed to catch on. As we weren't actually attacked, nor did we actually liberate anyone, the war doesn't fire the imagination for most.

[Pvt Schnapps]

But we proved to the French that it could be done...

[MDRebCAv]

There is a moument to General Watson from the Mexican War in Baltimore.
A Marylander , not sure about the rank. Unfortunately, there are two WBTS Petersburg type mortars on the monument .


Found some details. Watson was a Colonel

http://www.dmwv.org/honoring/baltimore.htm


There is a list of other mouments.

Watson is mentioned in the fourth stanza of “Maryland, My Maryland!” along with three other Marylanders:

IV
Come! 'tis the red dawn of the day,
Maryland!
Come with thy panoplied array,
Maryland!
With Ringgold's spirit for the fray,
With Watson's blood at Monterey,
With fearless Lowe and dashing May,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Samuel B. Ringgold (1796 – May 11, 1846) was an artillery officer in the United States Army who was noted for several military innovations which caused him to be called the "Father of Modern Artillery." He was also, famously, the first U.S. officer to fall in the Mexican-American War, perishing from wounds inflicted during the Battle of Palo Alto.

Lieutenant Colonel William H. Watson (?-1846) commanded the Battalion of Baltimore and District of Columbia Volunteers in the Mexican-American War. Prior to that, he had been a captain in the Independent Blues Company of the 5th Maryland. He was killed in the Battle of Monterrey in September 1846.

Enoch Louis Lowe (August 10, 1820 – August 23, 1892) served as Governor of the state of Maryland in the United States from 1851 to 1854.

Captain Charles Augustus May (1818–1864) was an American officer of the United States Army who served in the Mexican War and other campaigns over a 25-year career. He is best known for successfully leading a cavalry charge against Mexican artillery at the Battle of Resaca de la Palma. After the battle, May received two brevets to the rank of lieutenant colonel.

[hanktrent]

Prior to that, he had been a captain in the Independent Blues Company of the 5th Maryland.

Trivia fact: The Independent Blues had their own band, which was often called out to play for festive occasions in Maryland like canal openings, railroad openings and such. However, no matter how many times I see it in period accounts, I still read it the first time, and form the corresponding mental image, of the Independent Blues Band, and not as it should be, the Independent Blues Band. :rolleyes:

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[5 th Alabama Infantry]

Watson is mentioned in the fourth stanza of “Maryland, My Maryland!” along with three other Marylanders:

IV
Come! 'tis the red dawn of the day,
Maryland!
Come with thy panoplied array,
Maryland!
With Ringgold's spirit for the fray,
With Watson's blood at Monterey,
With fearless Lowe and dashing May,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Samuel B. Ringgold (1796 – May 11, 1846) was an artillery officer in the United States Army who was noted for several military innovations which caused him to be called the "Father of Modern Artillery." He was also, famously, the first U.S. officer to fall in the Mexican-American War, perishing from wounds inflicted during the Battle of Palo Alto.

Lieutenant Colonel William H. Watson (?-1846) commanded the Battalion of Baltimore and District of Columbia Volunteers in the Mexican-American War. Prior to that, he had been a captain in the Independent Blues Company of the 5th Maryland. He was killed in the Battle of Monterrey in September 1846.

Enoch Louis Lowe (August 10, 1820 – August 23, 1892) served as Governor of the state of Maryland in the United States from 1851 to 1854.

Captain Charles Augustus May (1818–1864) was an American officer of the United States Army who served in the Mexican War and other campaigns over a 25-year career. He is best known for successfully leading a cavalry charge against Mexican artillery at the Battle of Resaca de la Palma. After the battle, May received two brevets to the rank of lieutenant colonel.


Thank you for all the details Daniel. I knew about the "Maryland My Maryland" verse , but not the other.

Regards,

Elliott

[tompritchett]

nor did we actually liberate anyone

I am not sure how our Texan, New Mexico, Southern California and Arizona brethen would feel about that statement.

[Parault]

I am not sure how our Texan, New Mexico, Southern California and Arizona brethen would feel about that statement.




As we weren't actually attacked, nor did we actually liberate anyone, the war doesn't fire the imagination for most
Scott B. Lesch


Scott is correct in that Texas was not liberated by the Mexican War. Texas already had it out with Mexico in the war for Texas Independence from Oct 2,1835 to April 21,1836. I lived in Texas until I went to college in the early 80s. Texas History is taught (or was at the time I was in school) in the Jr High level classes.

In my opinion the reason the U.S. fought Mexico was because at that time the U.S. wanted everything west of the Rio Grande and the words Manifest Destiny was the going slogan of the day.

[tompritchett]

Scott is correct in that Texas was not liberated by the Mexican War. Texas already had it out with Mexico in the war for Texas Independence from Oct 2,1835 to April 21,1836.

True, but the Mexican War and the acceptance of Texas into the U.S. definitely made sure that Mexico would never try undo that liberation with another war.

[sbl]

Thomas! Has your new avatar affected your posts? ;) ("WINK")

A quick scan of Mexican history shows that their armies usually were too busy in self defense and internal control. The land the US forced them to sell us was land the Mexicans got from Spain, that the Spanish grabbed from the Indians. Not a lot of lofty ideals but I wouldn't reverse it.