.69 Cal. Ammunition boxes

[cosgood]

Guys,

I have a book from the Watchdog on making repro civil war rounds. In there is a chart on federal ammunition and to packaging colors and box colors. I did an online search, but didnt find an answer to my question.

The question is, in the chart it specifies that .69 Caliber round ball boxes are to be blue, and that buckshot are to be red. This is according to the ordinance manual. Did this practice take place, or were the boxes made like the others in the standard olive color, or plain wood?

Thanks,
Casey

[TheQM]

Guys,

The question is, in the chart it specifies that .69 Caliber round ball boxes are to be blue, and that buckshot are to be red. This is according to the ordinance manual. Did this practice take place, or were the boxes made like the others in the standard olive color, or plain wood?

Thanks,
Casey

Casey,

I have no idea how common it was, but I viewed an original .69 round ball box, that was packed in 1861. It was painted olive green and had rabbited corners. Since the top was missing, I don't know which arsenal produced this box.

[7thNJcoA]

I saw an original buck and ball box that was painted blue. The expandable ball was a common and favored round for the 69 cal and IMHO would be a good box to reproduce. I have read many accounts of men being issued regular round ball and breaking them open to create buck and ball rounds.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

I don't have a on-line postable copy of Page 270 from the 1861 Ordnance Manual, but...

Packing boxes are listed as:

Expanding Ball

M1842 Musket = Lead
M1855 Musket and Rifle = Olive

Blank

M1855 Musket and Rifle = Olive

Round Ball

M1842 Musket

Ball = Blue

Buckshot = Red

CHS

[TheQM]

I saw an original buck and ball box that was painted blue.

It would interesting to know the dimensions of that "Buck & Ball" box. I would think it had to be different than a buckshot, round or expanding (minie) ball box. Since the rounds are a different length.

[cosgood]

Curt,

I have a copy of that particular list. What I am looking for is, it doesnt mention "buck and ball"? It has "Ball" and "Buckshot" but no buck and ball. So did "buck and ball" Conform to the same colors as one of the other boxes like buckshot, or expanding ball etc.. or was it its own color, which is not mentioned. It does mention the paper color for packaging is the same color as plain "Ball" cartridges. So would it be safe to assume, the box would have been the same as well?

thanks,
Casey

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Yes, the Ordnance Manual is unusually silent on the B & B box color.
I have seen black & white pictures of buck and ball boxes, but the reference books did not mention their color (argggggg).



There is no provision for 1,000 round boxes being of different sizes for the different rounds.
(Plus the Manual dimensions for the boxes measure the INSIDE dimensions not the outside dimensions, so some lads make boxes that are smaller than they were.)

In an era of hand-made cartridges (often by boys), the length of the cartridges varied (but the boxes were large enough to accomodate them).
For example, .69 round ball cartridges: 2.04, 1.80, 2.25, 2.15, 1.88.
.69 buck and ball cartridges: 2.34, 2.40, 2.70, 2.65, 2.80, 2.67, 2.27.

CHS

[Craig L Barry]

booklet has the ammo box, right? ...that pamphlet is in its third or fourth printing. I had a tough time getting it written by Patrick Reardon, who did not think his illustrations were worthy (they are great) and once written, there was a general lack of interest in getting it published in a prompt fashion. Ironically, it has easily been The Watchdog's best seller over the last few years. Herr Kammeraden is right that the color is not mentioned other than Ord Dept specs. My impression was always that buck and ball was lumped in w/ "buckshot" rather than round ball, hence red.

I always liked "MC." These low cost, single subject monographs like this one are what The Watchdog should have concentrated on exclusively, and left books like CRRC-2 well enough alone. And perhaps they will concentrate on pamphlets again in the future, that was my last recommendation upon resigning my post. By prior agreement, The Watchdog was offered the expanded 2nd edition of David Burt's (and my) book on SIC & Huse, as well as an expanded new monograph on Peter Tait & Co, but they passed in favor of a 2nd edition of The Civil War Musket with an expanded Enfield section (it is up to about 250 pages en toto). A publisher for those other two works was found easily enough, and they will have an attractive pricing point with lots of images. There is some information on Tait jackets that will no doubt generate some controversy.

The second edition of The Civil War Musket is due out on CD ROM in about a month. CD ROM format only from what I am told.

[cosgood]

Guys,

I finally found a reference to the "Buck and Ball" boxes being painted blue. This is according to the 1862 ordinance manual. So after much digging, I have an answer to the question. Now its just making a repro of it!

Thanks,
Casey

[TheQM]

Guys,

I finally found a reference to the "Buck and Ball" boxes being painted blue. This is according to the 1862 ordinance manual. So after much digging, I have an answer to the question. Now its just making a repro of it!

Thanks,
Casey

Casey,

Did that 1862 Ordinance Manual also happen to have the dimensions for the "Buck & Ball ammo box?

[Craig L Barry]

My understanding was that the dimensions were the same. So color was blue?

[John Tobey]

Here's a photo of an original. It's blue, and was packed in 1862. I also had one packed in 1863 that was unpainted.

John Tobey

[Blair]

John,

Nice Box.
It looks as though the top and bottom are thiner than the sides can you give the measurements?
The lettering is black on this box, what color is the lettering on the unpainted box you mentioned?
Thank you,
Blair Taylor

[TheQM]

Here's a photo of an original. It's blue, and was packed in 1862. I also had one packed in 1863 that was unpainted.

John Tobey

John,

Do you have any more data on this box? Such as where the packing info was located, and exactly what did it say? Was there any stenciling on the side of the box? A ammo crate that still has it's top is a rare gem.

Thanks,

[John Tobey]

Blair,

Interesting observation: the top and bottom are about .840 thick, the sides are about .920. The lettering on the unpainted box was black.

Bill,

The box is marked "St. Louis Arsenal" on the sides (in an arc) and inside the lid. The packing date is also marked inside the lid. The exact stencil reads, "Fabricated St. Louis Arsenal Sept 1862"

John Tobey