American Civil War Warship models

[Shortround]

This post might be better suited to posting at steelnavy.com. But there is a chance that some reenactors may be good ship modelers.

First, I'm looking for scale drawing of an improved Monitor, the Passaic class. At 1/48th scale that ship would scale out to about 4' 1"(give or take). At 1/96 scale (typical ship scale) the Passaic scales out to 2', not a big model. Where can you get plans?

Second, I'm asking just a general question of reenactors. If there is a large reenactment and some craftsman builds a superior model of a Civil War ship and puts it on display at some tent over by the vendor section then do the reenactors like that sort of thing?

I've seen some craftsmen build superior quality models of Civil War ships. It's a pleasure to look at them.

Thanks in advance.

[tompritchett]

Second, I'm asking just a general question of reenactors. If there is a large reenactment and some craftsman builds a superior model of a Civil War ship and puts it on display at some tent over by the vendor section then do the reenactors like that sort of thing?


I know that I would enjoy looking at it and studying its design features. I would not be surprised if many reeanctors here where unaware of the fact the battle between the CCS Virginia and the USS Monitor was not ended as the result of any ship getting the upper hand but rather because the falling tide. We all have a feel for how tall the ironclads were but I know that I do not have as good of a handle on the actual draft of them.

[reddcorp]

I think that a lot of reenactors would enjoy taking a good look at a well-built, accurately detailed model(s) of Civil War naval vessels. I know I would. But, on the other hand, I have seen some models on display that were poorly built, wholly inaccurate and a complete waste of time.
I have built a model ship or two (from plastic to wooden plank on frame) and the real fun is in creating the details and getting it right.

A.Redd

["Doc" Nelson]

Tom, I am :mrgreen: .

Being from the Hampton Roads area, I studying up some on the ACW history of the area. Main focuses were actions in and around Elizabeth City County (now the modern city of Hampton), Warwick County (modern day city of Newport News), Portsmouth, Norfolk, Isle of White County, etc. etc.

Well, as for the some of the general design stats, try here:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/monitorstats.htm
http://www.civilwarhome.com/virginiastats.htm

General info on the battle (and Ironclads):

http://www.civilwarhome.com/ironclad.htm
http://ironclads.org/uss_ironclads.html
http://americancivilwar.com/tcwn/civil_war/Navy_Ships/Ironclad_Monitor_Virginia_Battle.html

These are just a few to get you started ;) .

[sbl]

You may have seen this already....

NavSource Online: Battleship Photo Archive
USS PASSIAC

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/passiac.htm

The second, third, and fourth, drawings have plans that could be scaled down.

[reb64]

I know that I would enjoy looking at it and studying its design features. I would not be surprised if many reeanctors here where unaware of the fact the battle between the CCS Virginia and the USS Monitor was not ended as the result of any ship getting the upper hand but rather because the falling tide. We all have a feel for how tall the ironclads were but I know that I do not have as good of a handle on the actual draft of them.


No sir, the virginia got in a good shot and the monitor declined further engagement. the next time the virginia came out, prepared to board the monitor, it hid itself a distance away. the tide played a factor in how close the virginia could get to the skuclking union vessels. they all fled when it came out, with the exception of the brave crews the first day who didnt know its firepower and protection. The difference is the Virginia tried to get in as close as possible. the monitor which could go in shallow waters, never came and attacked sewells point or the Virginias base.

[sbl]

Blockading the river and avoiding destruction still wins.

[VA Soldier]

First point, I can say without a doubt I would love to see an acurate model of any civil war vessel, or any historic ship for that matter, I am just that into history.

Second, my understanding of the battle between the Monitor and the Virginia is that neither vessel was able to score a critical hit, finnally after a good bit of shelling on both sides, the Virginia was able to score a hit close to one of the gun ports on the Monitor, blinding the captain. With the captain down, the Monitor backed off at which point the Virginia naturally assumed it had carried the day and the lowering tide persuaded them to withdrawl untill they could come back the next day and finish the job.
The Monitor seeing the Virginia withdrawing thought they had carried the day and decided to leave as well. Since both vessels left at about the same time the battle has to be considered a draw, both returning to a hero's welcome as both thought they had won the day. It would ultimatley turn into a Union victory as the Virginia was never able to break the blockade thus failing to achieve its goal and the Monitor was able to assist in defending the blockading fleet thus achieving its goal.

But I could always be wrong

D. Jackson

[johnerys]

If you would like to see some really great models consider coming to Columbus Ohio Aug 8th weekemd for the IPMS ( International Plastic Modelers Society) Nationals. You WILL be amazed. I used to be a member and thought I was pretty good until I saw what some of these guys do. You should be able to google IPMS USA to find info.

[reb64]

First point, is that neither vessel was able to score a critical hit, finnally after a good bit of shelling on both sides, the Virginia was able to score a hit close to one of the gun ports on the Monitor, blinding the captain. But I could always be wrong

D. Jacksont

the Virginia hit the pilot house, and the monitor withdrew for the second time. thus the virginia went home, nothing to do until high tide. you can count that as its only withdrawal to the monitors two. it would have stayed if the monitor hadnt left. i call that a standing 8-9 or 10 count. and in subsequent encounters the union withdrew to shallow waters. at that time the way to deep water is open but still guarded from the shore lines, technically the blockade was open several times, as in the ironclads opening it in charleston, but what does that really mean if the north wont honor those rules, more like guidlines any way.

[Rob Weaver]

I love ironclads! I would definitely enjoy fine scale models. Even better if they were remote controlled!

[Tarheel57]

If you would like to see some really great models consider coming to Columbus Ohio Aug 8th weekemd for the IPMS ( International Plastic Modelers Society) Nationals. You WILL be amazed. I used to be a member and thought I was pretty good until I saw what some of these guys do. You should be able to google IPMS USA to find info.

Speaking of plastic models, there is the old Lindberg Monitor and Merrimac kit. (Their terminology, not mine.) They are very basic and different scales, 1/210 and 1/300 respectively. I've built several sets of them over the past several decades. At one time I intended to use these as guides to making a larger scale model, but never acquired the skills or the tools. (For ACW, I have stuck with 1/72 scale figures.)
At shows I have seen some very fine wooden models the CSS Virginia and the CSS Arkansas, in quite large scales. Several kits of the CSS Atlanta exist, including a resin one by Verlinden, and I think Verlinden has a kit of the CSS Nashville, too. I have never been very proficient with resin kits.

[Rob Weaver]

There was an even older plastic kit with both the Monitor and the "Merrimac" on separate stands, with full realization (not just to the waterline). Even though they were out of scale, I used them as riverine craft back in my teenaged wargaming days. I've never been able to find the kit again; perhaps it was made by a knockoff company like "Life-Like."

[Pete K]

I was at a fall festival in Altoona, PA a few years ago and stumbled into a CW Navy exhibit. The gentleman had an excellent exhibit under a full sized authentic replica of the steel and canvas canopy of the Monitor. I was impressed with the size of the turret by being under the canopy. He had a few accurate scale models and displays of naval artillery shells/ fragments/fuses and uniforms/ insignia. I was opened up to a whole new area to research in my (scant) free time in the local libraries. By all means, I would love to see a good ship model display.

[EasySam]

I love ironclads! I would definitely enjoy fine scale models. Even better if they were remote controlled!

That would be cool, especially if they were hard to maneuver, as hard as the originals.

[Tarheel57]

There was an even older plastic kit with both the Monitor and the "Merrimac" on separate stands, with full realization (not just to the waterline). Even though they were out of scale, I used them as riverine craft back in my teenaged wargaming days. I've never been able to find the kit again; perhaps it was made by a knockoff company like "Life-Like."

That sounds a lot like the old Lindberg. They are on separate stands and do have the full draft. Maybe the Lindberg was a knockoff... While I lamented the lack of detail on the Lindberg duo, the size was really about the maximum my space would handle. I always built the CSS Virginia first and the Monitor ended up sitting in the box for awhile.
It always interested me how builders of ironclad models interpret the color of the iron plating. I've seen various people paint the armor flat black; iron gray; and rust. On my Virginia's, I painted the armor medium gray with a slight drybrush of rust. I don't know how authentic this was, but it looked good on my shelf, heh. I love the river campaigns too. One of my favorite books is "A River Unvexed: A History and Tour Guide to the Campaign for the Mississippi River". At one time I wanted to try to build some scale river craft out of balsa wood, but I quickly realized this was sheer fantasy.

[sbl]

http://www.hobbymasters.com/ProductImages/models/boats/77257.jpg

There's some consensus of black...modelers bring out the details with gray dry brushing.

http://agapemodels.com/?p=766

http://hsfeatures.com/ussmonitorcl_1.htm


http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-m/monitr-k.htm

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~jenkins/ironclads/qanda.htm

[Shortround]

You may have seen this already....

NavSource Online: Battleship Photo Archive
USS PASSIAC

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/passiac.htm

The second, third, and fourth, drawings have plans that could be scaled down.


Scott,

I love doing the math needed to make a scale model ship. Passiac has simple lines. I'm doing a 1/96 scale model of the Armored Cruiser USS Pennsylvania and the casemates makes one pay for their sins.

Thanks.

[Shortround]

Speaking of plastic models, there is the old Lindberg Monitor and Merrimac kit. (Their terminology, not mine.) They are very basic and different scales, 1/210 and 1/300 respectively. I've built several sets of them over the past several decades. At one time I intended to use these as guides to making a larger scale model, but never acquired the skills or the tools. (For ACW, I have stuck with 1/72 scale figures.)
At shows I have seen some very fine wooden models the CSS Virginia and the CSS Arkansas, in quite large scales. Several kits of the CSS Atlanta exist, including a resin one by Verlinden, and I think Verlinden has a kit of the CSS Nashville, too. I have never been very proficient with resin kits.


Cottage Industries makes superior resin CW models. But at $200 on up for their model;s I get sticker shock. Indeed, their excellent Keokuk ironclad (it's not a monitor) burns through hundreds of dollars.

Revell has the CSS Alabama and the occasional USS Kearsarge (I found out it's pronounced Kear-sar-gee). You should reference Steelnavy.com for a build reference. Strangely, the 1/96 scale CSS Alabama will build into a more accurate CW Kearsarge than the Revell 1/96 Kearsarge. Basically, the guys at Revell did an excellent job but they didn't know the National Archive drawings of Kearsarge was in her 1883 fit, not her 1860s fit. That's a huge mistake. It's like Yorktown II in 1944 vs Yorktown II in 1967.

I've seen the Lindberg kits. They are nice things to introduce the kids to models. Honestly, I think a modeler could make a fair kit. But the 1/300th Scale Virginia is a little small.

A company called Roberts Combat Models makes both a 1/72 scale Monitor and Virginia. But that's a medium of "vaccuform" and it can be dreadful to work with. I just might waste the $50 and get a model of Monitor from them.

For you rivet counters the scales that matter to ships are 1/192, 1/196, and 1/48th. It's all based off the English system. 1/100, 1/200th, 1/350th are metric. 1/72 scale is an adapted aircraft scale (I've built dozens of tanks in that scale).

Happy modeling...

[Tarheel57]

http://www.hobbymasters.com/ProductImages/models/boats/77257.jpg

There's some consensus of black...modelers bring out the details with gray dry brushing.



Here is a great monograph with an interesting section on Ironclad colors.

http://walternelson.com/ironclads.pdf

For me, black seems too dark in smaller scales. On another tangent, I have "Guns in the Western Waters: The Story of River Gunboats in the Civil War" by H.Allen Gosneil, and I found it fascinating that most Confederate river gunboat crews were technically civilians! Union gunboats frequently used "borrowed" Army troops!

[Tarheel57]

Cottage Industries makes superior resin CW models. But at $200 on up for their model;s I get sticker shock. Indeed, their excellent Keokuk ironclad (it's not a monitor) burns through hundreds of dollars.

Revell has the CSS Alabama and the occasional USS Kearsarge (I found out it's pronounced Kear-sar-gee). You should reference Steelnavy.com for a build reference. Strangely, the 1/96 scale CSS Alabama will build into a more accurate CW Kearsarge than the Revell 1/96 Kearsarge. Basically, the guys at Revell did an excellent job but they didn't know the National Archive drawings of Kearsarge was in her 1883 fit, not her 1860s fit. That's a huge mistake. It's like Yorktown II in 1944 vs Yorktown II in 1967.

I've seen the Lindberg kits. They are nice things to introduce the kids to models. Honestly, I think a modeler could make a fair kit. But the 1/300th Scale Virginia is a little small.

A company called Roberts Combat Models makes both a 1/72 scale Monitor and Virginia. But that's a medium of "vaccuform" and it can be dreadful to work with. I just might waste the $50 and get a model of Monitor from them.

For you rivet counters the scales that matter to ships are 1/192, 1/196, and 1/48th. It's all based off the English system. 1/100, 1/200th, 1/350th are metric. 1/72 scale is an adapted aircraft scale (I've built dozens of tanks in that scale).

Happy modeling...

Cottage industries is way out of my price range, and even Revell's Kearsarge gives me pause at a hundred bucks. But I suppose that in an age when the price of an 1/35 scale armor kit can easily be over fifty bucks, it's not too bad. I just can't bring myself to pay the prices of some of the newer Tamiya kits.
1/72 scale is great for space considerations, though these are creeping up in price too. I have fond memories of buying 1/76 and 1/72 armor for a couple of bucks back in the day; and those diorama sets for five bucks. Those days are sure gone forever.... But it's good to have so many ACW figures. The old Airfix Civil War sets were the only show in town for a long time.
Many hobby stores seem to be phasing out plastic kits altogether. When I moved back to NC I was shocked to find that Hungates is as barren as Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Thank heavens for ebay.

[dwaldeck]

I was in Vicksburg a few months back and visited a museum there that had at least 200 ship models on display. It was worth the 5 bucks admission. The museum was kind of cheesy, but the displays were great.
Dave