PDA

View Full Version : Greetings from Missouri



JohnSeever
04-01-2009, 09:35 PM
Hello, I am a new member to the Forum here and I am a newbie to the art of Civil War Re-enacting. Additionally, I am the web master for the 25th Missouri Volunteers, based out of St. Joseph, Missouri.

I want to say that I hope to get to know everyone who is here and to learn more about the art.

sunnylady408
04-01-2009, 09:44 PM
Hi John,

Welcome to the forum! My family and I are members of the N.W. 15th Arkansas Infantry based in Northwest Arkansas.
Feel free to ask all the questions you need to.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
04-02-2009, 10:26 AM
Hallo!

Welcome!

CHS

PetePaolillo
04-02-2009, 09:38 PM
as a newbie myself. Welcome and enjoy the forum. It is very informative. There are some great people on here who know an awful lot and they are willing to help you out.

davevcorporl
04-23-2009, 06:26 PM
you may fell free to ask me questions. i will do my best to answer them to the best of my ability.

charliesboatworks
04-23-2009, 06:41 PM
as a newbie myself. Welcome and enjoy the forum. It is very informative. There are some great people on here who know an awful lot and they are willing to help you out.


....and there are some self appointed experts who love to pontificate......its fun to try to figure out which is which!

tompritchett
04-24-2009, 09:14 AM
.and there are some self appointed experts who love to pontificate......its fun to try to figure out which is which!

and some of these are indeed the experts they claim to be. After a while, it will become apparent which ones are just full of it versus those who really do know their s**t.

Ozark Iron John
04-24-2009, 09:25 AM
I want to say that I hope to get to know everyone who is here and to learn more about the art.

Do you all got any Red Legs in your outfit?

JohnSeever
04-28-2009, 10:47 PM
Do you all got any Red Legs in your outfit?

Pardon my unknowning of the term, but what are red legs?

Chuck A Luck
04-28-2009, 11:41 PM
Pardon my unknowning of the term, but what are red legs?
Zoauves -- known as such due to their peculiar yet distinctive red, baggy-legged trousers, fashioned after French "zouave" units that served in Algeria.

tompritchett
04-29-2009, 06:33 AM
Zoauves -- known as such due to their peculiar yet distinctive red, baggy-legged trousers, fashioned after French "zouave" units that served in Algeria.

Actually I had always thought that red legs refered to artillery because of the red stripes a lot of them put on their trousers. It just goes to show you that even us "old timers" don't always get our terminology right.

Robert A Mosher
04-29-2009, 12:24 PM
Actually, it appears that you are both correct.

Webb Garrison's "The Encyclopedia of Civil War Usage" defines "red legs" as Zouaves and even specifically the 55th New York, for the red trousers of their Zouave uniform

Linda Reinberg's "In the Field: The Language of the Vietnam War" defines "red legs" as the artillery, "taken from the time of the Civil War when Union artillerymen's trousers had red stripes."

Robert A. Mosher

Ozark Iron John
04-29-2009, 02:18 PM
Pardon my unknowning of the term, but what are red legs?Ain't none of you ever heard of Redlegs before? Buffalo Bill was a Redleg.

Redlegs were JayHawkers. Thieves intent on burning down everything they couldn't carry off.

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/l_86e60b6e7a944d0ba3cd6fe07b95361b.jpg

I don't know what to think of a guy from St. Joe that don't know nothing about Redlegs. You really must be new to the area.

Robert A Mosher
04-29-2009, 04:44 PM
Ain't none of you ever heard of Redlegs before? Buffalo Bill was a Redleg.

Redlegs were JayHawkers. Thieves intent on burning down everything they couldn't carry off.

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/l_86e60b6e7a944d0ba3cd6fe07b95361b.jpg

I don't know what to think of a guy from St. Joe that don't know nothing about Redlegs. You really must be new to the area.

Actually, growing up in St Louis, I got the idea that the Jayhawkers were the groups based in Kansas, while the Redlegs were their opposing groups and were based in Missouri. You might also note that "The Outlaw Josey Wales" uses the terms in similar way.s

Robert A. Mosher

Ozark Iron John
04-29-2009, 08:09 PM
Actually, growing up in St Louis, I got the idea that the Jayhawkers were the groups based in Kansas, while the Redlegs were their opposing groups and were based in Missouri. You might also note that "The Outlaw Josey Wales" uses the terms in similar way.s

Robert A. Mosher
OMG! I can't believe it. I guess maybe I can. Most Civil War Re-enactors don't really seem to know too much about the most Un-Civil War in Missouri.

Redlegs were Jayhawkers from Kansas. They reported directly to Gen. Jim Lane and Gen. James Blunt. They were officers and went around with the various Union Leagues in Missouri to police up Democrats, slaveholders and Southern Sympathizes. Then they'd lead their troops on raids into Missouri to steal anything and everything that wasn't nailed down. Then they'd burn the rest.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-kansas/JackonCountyEvacuation.jpg

It doesn't surprise me, Yankee/Invader educated people don't know much about Redlegs. They were evil monsters and instigated more trouble than anyone else. Of course history's covered 'em up.

And Lincoln never slept with Joshua Speed either. LOL!

Robert A Mosher
04-29-2009, 08:45 PM
OMG! I can't believe it. I guess maybe I can. Most Civil War Re-enactors don't really seem to know too much about the most Un-Civil War in Missouri.

Redlegs were Jayhawkers from Kansas. They reported directly to Gen. Jim Lane and Gen. James Blunt. They were officers and went around with the various Union Leagues in Missouri to police up Democrats, slaveholders and Southern Sympathizes. Then they'd lead their troops on raids into Missouri to steal anything and everything that wasn't nailed down. Then they'd burn the rest.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-kansas/JackonCountyEvacuation.jpg

It doesn't surprise me, Yankee/Invader educated people don't know much about Redlegs. They were evil monsters and instigated more trouble than anyone else. Of course history's covered 'em up.

And Lincoln never slept with Joshua Speed either. LOL!

Thanks for calling all of us stupid - especially when you never bother to offer a serious source. Fortunately, Google Books quickly turned up enough first hand original sources to establish that you are basically correct with regards to the red legs.

Also fortunately, you are otherwise mistaken about "yankee invaders" - Missouri was initially held for the Union because loyal citizens in St Louis rallied to the starry banner. Afterwards, as the war grew in scale and extended across the country both sides armies came to be made up of men from a number of states.

Thanks for compelling me to educate myself.

Robert A. Mosher

huntdaw
04-30-2009, 12:55 AM
Many Missourians don't know much about the war in our state either.

Yes, Redlegs were considered to be Kansans - but not necessarily all Kansans - at least not at first. There were a couple of Kansas units that wore the red leggings as part of the everyday uniform - to set them apart I suppose. The term came to be applied to all Kansans.

Here's one internet source that discusses the term: http://skyways.lib.ks.us/genweb/archives/1912/r/red_legs.html

'Jayhawker' is another case. I have seen period sources use the term to apply to both sides. One report I saw from a Federal officer talked about how his patrol had caught and killed a particular guerilla in the area. He mentioned that the man had been one of the most notorious Jayhawkers around. I found that to be interesting.

Here's something from the Encylopedia of Arkansas History and Culture:

"“Jayhawker” originated in Kansas, and according to some authorities, it came into use in the late 1840s. The name was inspired primarily by the predatory habits of the hawk, but it implied, too, the noisy, mischievous nature of the jay. The combination became the “jayhawk,” a bird unknown to ornithology. The name was widely accepted in Kansas by the late 1850s, when anti-slavery advocates intent on defending Kansas Territory against pro-slavery “border ruffians” from Missouri adopted it. Kansans liked the tough image it conveyed during those bloody days of pre-Civil War violence, and they continued to use it once the war began. Missourians applied the name to Kansans, too, but negatively. They thought it fit the destructive raiders who plundered and destroyed their property before and during the war.

This usage was so widely known by the time of the war that Arkansans called any Kansas troops who entered the state jayhawkers. That happened most often in northwest Arkansas, although several Kansas regiments also served prominently around Pine Bluff (Jefferson County) and in the Camden Expedition. However, so notorious did the destructive behavior of the Kansans become that Confederate Arkansans also used the name as an epithet for any marauder, robber, or thief. This included Union guerrillas from Missouri who raided communities in northern Arkansas. It even applied to rebel guerrillas. Confederates reacted to plundering by their own guerrilla chiefs by chastising them as “jayhawking captains” and decrying their “system of ‘jayhawking.’” A Confederate calvaryman, worried about the ill effect that depredations by rebel guerrillas was having upon public morale in northern Arkansas, declared in October 1862, “I have always opposed these little Jaw Hawker Parties, and now think if men who wanted to do any thing, the army is the place to act.” Indeed, “jayhawk” become a verb implying theft. Even Union soldiers spoke of “jayhawking” the property of Southern civilians."

JohnSeever
04-30-2009, 08:42 AM
Actually, I did not know what Red Legs was, since it was never mentioned in school. Additionally, I am just starting out in CW Re-enacting, and have live just south of St. Joseph my entire life.

Plus this is a good place to learn things.

Thanks all.

Ozark Iron John
04-30-2009, 09:39 AM
Thanks for calling all of us stupid.Big difference between stupid and ignorant, Pard. No offense intended, but you don't want to get me talking about the Dutch in Saint Louis.

Ozark Iron John
04-30-2009, 09:43 AM
Plus this is a good place to learn things.
You're right about that JohnSeever. Welcome to the Forum.

Robert A Mosher
04-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Big difference between stupid and ignorant, Pard. No offense intended, but you don't want to get me talking about the Dutch in Saint Louis.

You really know how to apologize, dude.

Robert A. Mosher

Ozark Iron John
04-30-2009, 06:35 PM
You really know how to apologize, dude. I never called no one stupid, sir. I'm sorry if you took offense.

P.S. Greetings from Un-Reconstructed Little Dixie.

sooporcow7
05-03-2009, 08:10 PM
Hello, I was reading the posts on here and was curious to find out what the southern schools teach about the Civil War.

I have lived in NH all my life and would like to know the basics of what the other portions of the country teach about the Civil War. I hope I am not coming off as offensive or anything I truely am curious.

tompritchett
05-03-2009, 09:08 PM
Hello, I was reading the posts on here and was curious to find out what the southern schools teach about the Civil War.

I have lived in NH all my life and would like to know the basics of what the other portions of the country teach about the Civil War. I hope I am not coming off as offensive or anything I truely am curious.

Have you been following the thread on this subject down in the Whine Cellar?
http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13633