View Full Version : Question about repro 1858 Remingtons?
02-18-2006, 11:46 PM
I have a quick question about the repro 1858 Remington .44 cal cap and ball pistols: A few years back I remember some talk about the different makers or brands of repro Remingtons. I had heard that while some are/were full size replicas of the 1858 Remingtons, I also heard at that time that there was one on the market that was sort of scaled down or something. I am not talking about the later Remington Navy model in .36 cal, but a smaller scale, slenderer 1858 Remington .44, like a 3/4 scale or something.
My question is; is that true? Were or are there 1858 Remington cap and ball .44s that are or were built slightly scaled down as opposed to a full sized exact replica? If it is true, who made it or if it is still on the market who makes it? Because I don't want some slender scaled down thing. If I get one I want the full sized, exact size and weight replica.
Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.
02-19-2006, 01:01 AM
Here's another place to look for answers:
This is the Society of Remington Revolver Shooters (SCORRS) SIG on the Cowboy Action Shooting Forum. These guys shoot real lead from Remington replicas and know a great deal about them.
02-19-2006, 11:53 AM
To my knowledge no one has made a "repro M1858 Remington?"
In 1857 Remington began to manufacture the "ancestor" of the "Remington" based on patents by Fordyce Beals often called the "Remington Beals." While Beals did design a "pocket revolver," he also did a "Beals Army" and a "Beals Navy" revolver.
Problems with the Beals' design were ironed out with the Remington Model 1861 Army and Navy revolvers which were later referred to as the "Old Model."
Further problems were again ironed out with the Model 1863 Army and Navy revolver. I believe ALL of the "Remington Army and Navy" repro's are of the M1863 type.
As with Colt, Remington had a successful business with the civilian market, and not only did "pocket pistols" and "police pistols."
They also did a "half way" offering beginning in 1863 in the form of the
"New Model" belt revolver which is essentially a M1863 Navy but with a 6 1/2 inch barrel rather than the Navy's 7 3/8's.
There is no proof, but some around the campfire argue that the repro makers created the "M1858" name for the M1863 to be able to market and sell 1863 guns for 1862 and 1861 impressions without having to actually produce a new Model 1861 or a "Remington Beals."
The Italians make a Remington New Model Pocket Pistol in .31, but I have never seen other than repro M1863 Army's and Navy's. (Well also the M1875 cartridge revolver, but that is too late for CW...) And, I will not get into the Italian concept of a brass framed M1863 Remington.)
02-19-2006, 01:01 PM
02-19-2006, 04:15 PM
The Old Model Army, of which 12,000 were produced circa 1862, had a dovetailed front sight and the loading lever was cut so the cylinder could be removed without lowering the lever. The Army found both features unacceptable. The New Model Army features a loading lever that must be dropped for cylinder removal and a screw-in post front sight.
The original New Model Army was manufactured from 1863 until 1875, and Flayderman estimates that a total of 132,000 units were produced, or more than 10,000 a year. One of the oddities of Civil War weapon collecting is that the Old Model Army has a patent date of Dec 17, 1861 and the New Model Army, its replacement, has a patent date of Sept 14, 1858.
It's those patent dates on the revolvers that causes so much confusion. Users tend to call all Remington cap and ball revolvers "1858s", and the repro makers don't help things by making them in different frame sizes and muddling up the patent dates. That's why I posted the link to SCORRS, those people know their Remingtons.
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