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View Full Version : Enfield Defarb "overlooked"??



John1862
07-27-2006, 09:39 AM
I just came to thinking about original compared to repro defarbed Enfields, and realized that even the highest defarb quality is missing one thing; a riveted nosecap. The original nosecaps I own, and have seen, all have the 2 rivets that held them onto the stock, and the repops I've seen all have a screw-on one. Does anyone know more about this than I or have seen the riveted ones on defarbs?

bob 125th nysvi
07-28-2006, 08:49 PM
is are you SURE yours isn't the modified one?

It seems to me that riveting would defeat the purpose of interchangeable parts and the ability to easily repair in the field.

I find it hard to believe so many manufacturers would overlook such a simple detail especially when marketing to those seeking the most authentic replica possible.

Just a thought

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

Jim Mayo
07-28-2006, 09:19 PM
It seems to me that riveting would defeat the purpose of interchangeable parts and the ability to easily repair in the field.


Bob: I don't think anyone worried about replacing the nose cap. Nothing to wear out but they did fall off occasionally and are a common find. They were riveted with two rivets. It appears that the rivets were cast with the nose cap as one piece. That would make them expensive to reproduce. The rivets were then set after installing on the stock. At least that is the way they appear to me. I have never seen one missing the rivet. The cap on the left appears to have been struck by something right where the barrel rested.

John1862
07-28-2006, 09:56 PM
I find it hard to believe so many manufacturers would overlook such a simple detail especially when marketing to those seeking the most authentic replica possible.

Exactly what I was thinking. I can understand it from a cost point of view, such as if you indeed break off the nose cap by some freak chance then you have to get a new stock, or add some wood to the forend. Here is a picture of dug enfield nosecaps from www.cw1861.com (Lawrence Christophers relic site, he was almost killed this past monday by a 20# parrot shell, which exploded while he was drilling it to remove the powder, lets pray he makes it out of his critical condition coma.) http://cw1861.com/mixed_files/image030.jpg

Craig L Barry
12-21-2007, 08:17 AM
The nose cap was attached with two brass rivets on commercial Birmingham P-53s, but held in place with a single screw through the bottom on the LA Co and RSAF (Enfield) P-53s. The reason the Euroarms and Armi Sport reproductions are found this way is because they are copies of the mid-70s Parker-Hale which was itself copied from a type IV RSAF.

It is usually not addressed by those who make accuracy modifications (de-farb) repro Enfields due to oversight.

Jim Mayo
12-21-2007, 09:49 AM
Craig: The Keen P-53 I just acquired has two copper rivets holding the nose cap on. I checked a dug nose cap that was handy and the two rivets appear to be copper also. The rivets are not showing on my Tower so they may be brass. I have a couple of nose caps around somewhere and I will check those. Seems like they may have used both materials.

I think it would be difficult to rivet a nose cap on and risk cracking the stock. I think I will leave that part as is.

BTW, I think one of the screw attached P-53 nose caps was recently on e-bay advertised as a Richmond nose cap.

Craig L Barry
12-21-2007, 03:01 PM
Correct, the Keen & Son is a London contractor gun of the handmade variety. The machine made, parts interchangeable London guns (Royal Small Arms Factory and London Armoury) were the only ones not using the brass rivets, or put another way machine made = the single screw nosecap.

I have talked about this with Todd Watts, the gunsmith for Blockade Runner, about adding this correction to the de-farb services he offers and he indicated it would not necessarily be hard to do. He suggested the holes be drilled in the nosecap and put rivets in but not going through the stock tip, in other words, just a cosmetic change. I actually have an original nosecap in my "coffee can" of parts, but have not installed it. For one thing the "original" nosecap does not fit exactly the same, at least not as well as the repro part on there. It extended a bit too far down and interferred with the ramrod fitting properly in the ramrod channel.

You know the old saying "don't make things worse"? I think it would have. However, I suppose the repro part could be modified to mimic the brass riveted nose cap by fitting and filing cosmetically, and leaving the screw as is, like Todd suggested. I have fatter fish to fry at the moment.

1stTexas
12-22-2007, 12:57 AM
Craig, I think the saying you are thinking of is..... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I learned that many times when I was active in restoring classic cars. In about 80% of the occasions when I made a change that I thought was better and more authentic, I had to return it back to the way I found it.

Craig L Barry
12-22-2007, 08:52 AM
Yes, I have had a few tragi-comedic episodes of "improvements" gone sour, or not working out as planned. My least favorite example involved an attempted rebuild of an original Tower lock that began with hopes of fitting a new hammer and ended with none of the changes working out and then none of the parts cooperating in putting it back like it was.

So far nobody has turned me away from an event due to the wrong type nosecap on my P-53. It will move up on my list of priorities if that ever happens.