Questions for the 150's

[CameronsHighlander]

I know its early but we have two years till the 150th Annaversery events. So I am going to Ask opinions of things we would most like to see, though most may not be possible?

1) The Battle of the Crater with the explosion. (most unlikely, but come on admit it you really want to see and hear that explosion Union or Confederate Cold Mountain wasn't enough)

2) Full Scale Pickets Charge including the Artillery Duel. (We will need some on it Pittsburgh to tell us if it's right)

3) River Boats at Shiloh. (this could be doable but wont likely happen)

4) Trains at 1st Manassas/ Bull Run. (I would love to Jump off an train and go into battle)

5) Miller Cornfield, Sunken Road, Lower Bridge, and West Woods at Antietiam. (The Bridge and Woods would need to be underway Already. The Cornfield could be planted in the Spring so it looks full grown by fall but we need weather. Sunken Road would need to be dug.)

[bob 125th nysvi]

Full Scale Pickets Charge including the Artillery Duel. (We will need some on it Pittsburgh to tell us if it's right)

the NPS just letting us do it once on the real battlefield.

Big problem is that it isn't realistic to expect that to happen. Even if they did the number of reenactors who'd want to participate would just swamp the actual numbers who participated in the battle.

Be the first time we ever had that problem, eh?

[3rdUSRedleg]

2) Full Scale Pickets Charge including the Artillery Duel. (We will need some on it Pittsburgh to tell us if it's right)

Nice thought, but not possable unless you are thinking to actually kill people with the artillery.
To get the correct sound levels of the ordnance you must use full charges behind actual iron ordnance rounds.
Big Big Big difference in that sound then at a reenactment! :p

[Thad Gallagher]

1) The Battle of the Crater with the explosion. (most unlikely, but come on admit it you really want to see and hear that explosion Union or Confederate Cold Mountain wasn't enough)

-Hopefully it would more dramatic and eventful than the one they "blew" at the 125th. The crater totaled about 5 inches deep at the lowest point.


3) River Boats at Shiloh. (this could be doable but wont likely happen)

-That would be pretty awesome to see happen.

I would like to see a true around the clock reenactment done. Battle ends, sleep where you are, field hospitals going, guards put out, go out and look for wounded/dead pards, etc, etc, etc.

I would also like to do a good trench warfare reenacrment. Be in there the whole event, not just a scenario or two. Haven't done that since the above mentioned Petersburg. We were in there for 4 days. There have been other events with works, but on a smaller scale, and we were only in them for a day.

[indguard]

Even if they did the number of reenactors who'd want to participate would just swamp the actual numbers who participated in the battle.


I think I disagree with that. In two more years hence we won't have that many still in the hobby. It think the last large Gettysburg we'll see for a long time happened last year.

Hope I am wrong, though.

WTH
The We'reNeverGonnaMakeIt mess

[OVI]

I think I disagree with that. In two more years hence we won't have that many still in the hobby. It think the last large Gettysburg we'll see for a long time happened last year.

Hope I am wrong, though.

WTH
The We'reNeverGonnaMakeIt mess

I have heard many older veteran reenactors who dont do much anymore state that they will do the 150th GB just to say they were there. With all those old geezers (me included Im afraid), it will be more like Picketts Shuffle. The internet in July 2013 will be filled with emails and postings of all the guys who had heart attacks there.

Kent Dorr - Winter Quarters in Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

[Colonel Dave]

Full scale Picketts Charge at the 130th.
The cornfield and sunken road at Antietam.
The simulation of gunboats at Shiloh with artillery firing intermittently off in the distance.

Heart attack, heck, been there, done it. lol

[GrumpyDave]

I would like to see a true around the clock reenactment done. Battle ends, sleep where you are, field hospitals going, guards put out, go out and look for wounded/dead pards, etc, etc, etc.

Don't take offense, but, for the most part, these are the only events some folks ever attend, myself included. They're generally smaller but, more history heavy. You can find them listed from time to time, here on this forum and all the time on the Authentic Campiner Website. The last two I attended were held on original ground (Glendale-Malvern Hill and Slaughter Pen Farm) owned by the CWPT. You need to try out one of the "Death Marches." Underadvertised and always first rate. Come on out, we'll at least cook you before we eat you.





the NPS just letting us do it once on the real battlefield. :(

IMHO, It's sorta' like r'nacting in a cemetary. Just imagine 10,000+ participants going potty, digging fire pits, tossing beer cans and parking their cars in the Rose Woods, the Codori Farm, or on on Laurel Hill, right where all those poor fellers' breathed their last. I can understand why they don't allow it, having seen what I've seen happen at some of the "mega" events, first hand as a participant and as a spectator. I do understand, in almost all cases, there's not enough room on leased ground and, in almost all cases, you have to stretch your imagination to make the leased ground match the "real" ground(Insert many other words here, in place of the word "ground".).

What would the addition of "static" camps do to the fields the NPS does so much to preserve(and constantly scream they need money to preserve)? Imagine driving vehicles through Millers Corn Field, Chinn Ridge, Henry House Hill, the Wheatfield, the Mule Shoe, The Widdow Higgerston Farm, the "Lee to the Rear" field or Saunders Field so you can unload your stuff. OK, so you lease property off the NPS site for the camps, if it's at all possible, how many units would/could walk the distance necessary, to get to their starting point for a said scenerio. Take Gettysburg for example,(because so many are familiar with the lay of the land), The nearest you could get Federal Troops to the 2nd/3rd days fields would be on the back side of the Round Tops and Confederate camps, out around the Eisenhower Farm. How do you get troops to the first day's fields? I'd guess it's a mile or waaaay more to the 2nd/3rd day sites alone. How do you get water and sanitary facilities on to the NPS property for 10000+ participants?

I can recall, every one of the scenerios listed in the first post, have been done, and since 2000. Is that correct? Bhuler? Bhuler? Bhuler?(The Rail Road cars from the movie "Gettysburg" are still 'round, I hear)


The opportunities are out there, you just have to find them. Nothing that hasn't been typed on a forum over, and over , and over, and over a bizillion times, won't be typed on this thread. And, posting it here does no good. E-mail event organizers. Tell them about your "wish list". I'm sure someone will sell tickets to it. Contact Mr. Chris Anders. See what he's got going on in the future. I hear he does a pretty good job of giving participants at events he "puts on" what they want to see.;)

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.

Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:

But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,

But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;

They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.

But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)

Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;

But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true

That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.

That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,

As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will bum,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Rudyard Kipling


Synical today, blunt today,

[reddiamond]

I do not think that we'll have the numbers in the hobby that we did this cycle.
The quality has gone down and will continue to sink while commanders allow more and more exceptions just to fill their ranks with warm bodies.

If the events are preservation-based. I'll go. If they are blatant money changer events I'll stay home.

Reenactors always wish to go to the "big" events, regardless of the fact that they are only big if people chose to attend. If you choose to go somewhere else, they cease to be big.

AHT or GAC? If more chose to go to the smaller event it would have been bigger. Then again, I liked the numbers being smaller. The event standards worked to keep the trash out.

Scot Buffington

[Pete K]

We wouldn't hear it in Pittsburgh, we're still cheering for the Steelers

[RJSamp]

So I am going to Ask opinions of things we would most like to see, though most may not be possible?



1) The Battle of the Crater with the explosion. (most unlikely, but come on admit it you really want to see and hear that explosion Union or Confederate Cold Mountain wasn't enough)

Will NEVER happen, not even unlikely. I heard the 3AM bombing of the Army Math Research Center, UW Madison, Wisconsin where the Armstrong brothers loaded up a Van with fertilizer and killed Robert Fassnacht/destroyed the side of the building. This was from across a calm lake, 5 miles away. A dull roar, not even close to the reports on the Crater explosion.....and the Crater was muffled by the tons of earth that it had to move...


2) Full Scale Pickets Charge including the Artillery Duel. (We will need some on it Pittsburgh to tell us if it's right)

Well we did that at G135.....not enough troops in the hobby these days.....and the firing restrictions on the Artillery Duel made it a yawner after 10-15 minutes. Now if the cannon were allowed to fire 1 round a minute for one hour.....that would be cool. Heck, I'd limp around and fill up their sponge buckets for them to keep up the 'far'.


3) River Boats at Shiloh. (this could be doable but wont likely happen)

Easy enough, what's the minimum for Black Jack? and do any of those casinos actually move on their own power.....(OK so I know a few that do).


4) Trains at 1st Manassas/ Bull Run. (I would love to Jump off an train and go into battle)

Where were you for Chicka145?


5) Miller Cornfield, Sunken Road, Lower Bridge, and West Woods at Antietiam. (The Bridge and Woods would need to be underway Already. The Cornfield could be planted in the Spring so it looks full grown by fall but we need weather. Sunken Road would need to be dug.)
Good stuff...now if the CSA boys could stay OUT of the corn until the Iron Brigade made it through....(A135, A140)

[Thad Gallagher]

I have attended the events on the other site, these are the events I typically try to attend. I think it would be nice to see them on larger scale, if possible. It would be nice to integration of the different impressions in them. I enjoy those events on the AC site, and the large scale ones. I am quite comfortable in either enviroment, and have different expectations from each.


I'll echo the yawner sentiments, I remember sleeping through the 135th G-burg artillery duel, we were ordered to lie down while a battery was going directly behind us, and pretty close at that. Seemed liked there were way too many of us there on the Fed side, we seemed to be stacked 6-8 deep at the fence on the our left and then our battalion was behind them stacked up.

[Regular3]

1) The Battle of the Crater with the explosion. (most unlikely, but come on admit it you really want to see and hear that explosion Union or Confederate Cold Mountain wasn't enough)

-Hopefully it would more dramatic and eventful than the one they "blew" at the 125th. The crater totaled about 5 inches deep at the lowest point.Safety, safety, safety ... That's what kept that blast so small. Of course the original guys were trying to blow people to Kingdom Come (10 points if you can find that on a map :-) ) instead of making sure nobody got hurt.

But I was more worried about dying of heat stroke at Crater 125 than I was of being injured in the scenario -- One of the hottest events I've ever been in, temperature-wise.

[Thad Gallagher]

That was a hot one.

Isn't Kingdom Come near Utopia Went?;)

[pistolpete1863]

I think I disagree with that. In two more years hence we won't have that many still in the hobby. It think the last large Gettysburg we'll see for a long time happened last year.

Hope I am wrong, though.

WTH
The We'reNeverGonnaMakeIt mess

I too hope I am wrong but agree with what you say.

[CameronsHighlander]

Even if they did the number of reenactors who'd want to participate would just swamp the actual numbers who participated in the battle.



I think there were 15,000 between Union and Confederate at the GAC event in July that was just under the total that made Picketts Charge in 1863 Keep in mind that Vicksbug, Mississippi would be the same weekend I dont think you will ever see 70,000 Confederate or 80,000 Union Reenactors on the field I think even 18,000 is not going to happen.

[bob 125th nysvi]

[QUOTE=bob 125th nysvi] Even if they did the number of reenactors who'd want to participate would just swamp the actual numbers who participated in the battle.
QUOTE]


I think there were 15,000 between Union and Confederate at the GAC event in July that was just under the total that made Picketts Charge in 1863 Keep in mind that Vicksbug, Mississippi would be the same weekend I dont think you will ever see 70,000 Confederate or 80,000 Union Reenactors on the field I think even 18,000 is not going to happen.

personally I think aal of you are all wrong about the numbers. Just many of you may be gone. Things tend to go in cycles and for some reason psychologically things like 150th annvfsticks in our minds. I think there will be lots od bodies available.

Second there is no way on gods green earth the NPS is going let 10s of thousands of reenactors tear up their premier park. But this was a wish list right?

Admittedly there is the Vicksburg event but lets just phantasize for a minute here.

You're a reb and you have a chance to step out of the tree line and head for that little group of trees, the REAL little group of trees after leaving the REAL treeline and your going to go play 'beseiged army' instead? I don't think so.

And I wasn't talking about 70k-80k reactors. You don't need that many to do Picketts Charge.

And yes there will be people who won't come because the event doesn't meet their standards.

But to do it just once, maybe the only chance you'll ever get, the way they did it, where they did it, maybe even 150 years to the day hour and minute they did it? At the most famous moment of the war?

In my opinion 99 out 100 will be there.

[zouavecampaigner]

I think there were 15,000 between Union and Confederate at the GAC event in July that was just under the total that made Picketts Charge in 1863 Keep in mind that Vicksbug, Mississippi would be the same weekend I dont think you will ever see 70,000 Confederate or 80,000 Union Reenactors on the field I think even 18,000 is not going to happen.


You have to remember, those numbers, even when not inflated by the organizers, are EVERYONE registered. How many of those are women, children, civilians, tourists getting in cheaper, and general tag-along-behind-the-battleline non-combatants? I'd venture that at least 1/4, maybe even closer to 1/3 fall into that catagory for the big anniversary events.

Regards,
Shaun

[Tiger_rifles]

I would like to see some NEW Battles being done. We see the same ones come back around over and over again.
I know I have said it here before, but Why not do 2nd Manassas,(Groveton for the purests in the crowd)? You have some of the best parts on this one!
Early to mid war uniforms/gear, Jackson slugging it out on the unfinished RR, Longstreet coming in by rail, Buffords Cav. holding him off at "The Gap", Sleep inplace overnite if you wish, Longstreet breaks thru and smashes into Popes left, 5th NY and other Zuzus get to die in heaps, US troops make a last hold to prevent full retreat!
What more could you want!

[OVI]

I would like to see some NEW Battles being done. We see the same ones come back around over and over again.
I know I have said it here before, but Why not do 2nd Manassas,(Groveton for the purests in the crowd)?

New battles are good and help gain exposure for preservation efforts in some not as well known engagements. The reason , however, that the same battles get done over and over, is because to draw numbers of reenactors & spectators, organizers go with the "big" names.
As to 2nd Manassas....I believe Mr Chris Anders is working on that for 2010.

Kent Dorr - Winter Quarters in Ohio (its finally melting!!)
"Devils Own Mess"

[CameronsHighlander]

I have to say new Battles / Senarios are good.. The Mississippi charge at the GAC event was like oh thank god we arent doing Little Round Top some Battles yeah we have no choice.. Spotsylvainia the Mule Shoe seems about it, Cold Harbor throw everybody to Die, Wilderness Fighting in little openings, Gettysburg day 3 Picketts Charge.. How many of us reenactors actually do this for the Spectators. Not to sound selfish but I don't give a flip if they are there I do this for me I think we all really do this for ourselves.

[PMB1861]

some Battles yeah we have no choice.. Spotsylvainia the Mule Shoe seems about it, Cold Harbor throw everybody to Die, Wilderness Fighting in little openings, Gettysburg day 3 Picketts Charge

There is a good bit more going on at all of those battles if you can open a book and read... It is down right insulting to the men who fought and died there on both side to belittle their sacrifice.

[CameronsHighlander]

There is a good bit more going on at all of those battles if you can open a book and read... It is down right insulting to the men who fought and died there on both side to belittle their sacrifice.


I know it sounded that way but I didn't intend it too... I meant that if we did a 2 company skirmish at the North Anna River A good number of us would not go to that Reenactment.. An example of not wanting to do an event again We did 1st Bull Run / Manassas at Cedar Creek IMHO that event was probably the worst annaversery event I've ever been to why Logistics 8 miles round trip to the Confederate camp 2 miles round trip to sutlers yeah I'll do 150 but if it's held at Cedar Creek Im not going to 155 and I wont do the Cedar Creek event ever.

[Silas]

I just don't get it. Piney Woods is a month away. Best opportunity to live the life of a soldier in the field for an extended time that you're going to get for maybe the next decade - if ever again - and you're talking about a wish list of 150th anniversary events.

Bigger ain't better. GAC vs. Andersburg was proof of that. You should take advantage of a great event like Piney Woods while there is still time. I have my doubts about seeing another opportunity like this again. As for mega events, there's always another puffed up, mega event on the schedule which doesn't live up to the hype. People keep sayin' they'll never do one of them again and will do a better event next time. Unfortunately, next time never comes and they go right back to the hyped up events for one legitimate sounding excuse or another.