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reb64
02-03-2009, 01:26 AM
In the end scene, a cemetary is shown in front of modern new york. Is this a real place?

tenfed1861
02-03-2009, 01:40 AM
It is supposably a real place.If you look it up on imdb.com,it should be able to help you out drasticlly.

sbl
02-03-2009, 07:51 AM
"I'm kinda home-tutured in a box my pop made.It sometimes gets very hot...in the box my pop made."~Dean Venture

Hahaha! Great show. I love the Johnny Quest references.

snk22nd
02-03-2009, 09:38 AM
I enjoyed how they ignored the proper stance when firing.

hanktrent
02-03-2009, 09:38 AM
I haven't seen the movie, but I'll take a wild guess and say it might be the Trinity Church cemetery. Search for that and see if it looks right. I think it's about where Wall Street joins, um, Broadway maybe? I think it's further down Manhattan than the 6th Ward and Mulberry Bend and all that, but not too far away, toward Printing House Square.

Anyway, both it and the church are pretty much unchanged from the 1860s (and before) except I think there used to be a fence around the cemetery that might not be there anymore. It's surrounded by skyscrapers now--blew me away to first see a modern picture of it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

bhutton
02-03-2009, 10:45 AM
I believe it is Greenwood Cemetary

bizzilizzit
02-03-2009, 12:14 PM
I haven't seen the movie, but I'll take a wild guess and say it might be the Trinity Church cemetery. Search for that and see if it looks right. I think it's about where Wall Street joins, um, Broadway maybe? I think it's further down Manhattan than the 6th Ward and Mulberry Bend and all that, but not too far away, toward Printing House Square.

Anyway, both it and the church are pretty much unchanged from the 1860s (and before) except I think there used to be a fence around the cemetery that might not be there anymore. It's surrounded by skyscrapers now--blew me away to first see a modern picture of it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

The spot they are standing on looks very much like an old cemetery on the NJ site in or near Fort Lee (however, the grave markers there are barely legible and the grounds are overgrown). I've see that view from several spots along the Hudson on the Jersey side.
From one who grew up in the Great Garden (cough) State.

sbl
02-03-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm pretty sure that the view from the cemetery was of lower Manhatten and Fort Lee is too far up.

sbl
02-03-2009, 01:55 PM
You could probably see Lower Manhatten from Greenwood. (Looking at the Map)

hanktrent
02-03-2009, 02:28 PM
Oh, if you can see lower Manhattan off in the distance, then forget Trinity Churchyard; it's right in the middle of it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

bizzilizzit
02-03-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm pretty sure that the view from the cemetery was of lower Manhatten and Fort Lee is too far up.

Sorry - it was Jersey City. Hoboken, North Bergen, Weehawken - they all look the same to me :confused:

Greenwood Cemetery might be possible but I don't know if the ground is high up enough to see over so much NY real estate. I suppose if "artistic license" would come into play and one could see through or ignore all the skyscrapers, it might be possible. That may be the cemetery he was trying to portray, but the distance across the water seems too short in the film to be in Brooklyn.

sbl
02-03-2009, 03:42 PM
The other "thing" is whether dead New Yawkers could be buried in New Jersey legally at that time. Could be Long Island. Also the "view" is important to the story.

"Leave the gun, take the Canoles."

sbl
02-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Several sites list mistakes in the film. The view of New York from the Cemetery is not mentioned....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_accuracy

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217505/goofs

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0320_030320_oscars_gangs.html

double_quick
02-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Anyone ever maybe though it could've been computerized?

sbl
02-03-2009, 09:56 PM
Of course it was! Just play "what if."

KarinTimour
02-04-2009, 08:07 AM
Folks:

a) You can definately see lower Manhattan from Greenwood cemetary -- it's got a number of fairly tall hills and the part of Brooklyn between it and Manhattan is much lower.

b) My recollection (haven't seen the film in some years) was that the view of lower Manhattan, because of the angles and the sides of the buildings you're seeing, was the view from the New Jersey side of the Hudson.

I'll pull out the film and watch it this weekend and report back,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

sbl
02-04-2009, 09:10 AM
Too bad you can't triangulate the location by using the tallest New York features that appear as time goes by. ;)

Bitter_Bierce
02-04-2009, 12:46 PM
I'm sure the cemetery was only mean to be symbolic and did not represent an actual location. Reason being, during the last few seconds of the film there is a time lapse and you can see the graves getting overgrown and then disappearing completely until there is no trace of the them. This is symbolic of the fact that all those folks from the Five Points area are almost completely forgotten today and what was important to them over a century ago means nothing to us today (except for reenactors, of course) . See the ending here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YL6W1iuSY&feature=related

sbl
02-04-2009, 01:08 PM
"I'm sure the cemetery was only mean to be symbolic and did not represent an actual location." I agree but....Brooklyn Bridge a dead give away. Brooklyn looking across at Manhatten.

hanktrent
02-04-2009, 05:14 PM
"I'm sure the cemetery was only mean to be symbolic and did not represent an actual location." I agree but....Brooklyn Bridge a dead give away. Brooklyn looking across at Manhatten.

Well, without being able to see videos online nor having seen the movie I oughta just stay out of this thread, but let me try with a thought one more time. :D

If symbolically the cemetery is supposed to be where the city's poor gang members were buried, I'd suggest a very likely real-life place would be the cemetery at Ward's Island or, if they died post-war, Hart Island. Neither would give a view of the Brooklyn Bridge, however. They'd be opposite upper (in the period very very upper) Manhattan, but the older graves at Hart Island (http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=printpage&artid=60)do seem to fit the description of an overgrown virtually forgotten cemetery today and here (http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/manhattan/randalls-wards/wardsisland/index.htm)are some views of the city from Ward's Island. So even if the movie was photoshopped, gang members buried in the city's cemetery for the poor would get a "view" of the Manhattan skyline over the years, just upper Manhattan rather than lower.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

KarinTimour
02-05-2009, 08:14 AM
Thank you for posting the link to the video. Having reviewed it, I can confirm that the land that the "cemetary" is on is indeed Brooklyn, just north of the Brooklyn Bridge. There is no cemetary remaining there, if there ever was one. From the viewpoint, it's somewhere on the southern edge of Greenpoint, and is likely now underneath the world headquarters printing plant of the Watchtower, the magazine of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Using Google Earth you could probably get to the perspective, using the Brooklyn Bridge to get you to the right point.

I agree with the person earlier who said that it's a metaphor for how the concerns of the denizens of the Five Points are dead and forgotten now. Also, the director may be making a point about those who were lost during the Draft Riots, uncounted and secretly buried. Officially something like 100 people were killed in the course of the rioting. It's known that this is an undercount, and estimates range as high as 1200 for the number killed. People were buried in backyards, thrown in rivers, etc. The authorities had other things on their minds, people were fighting over looted goods, or were shot resisting the police or the military and others didn't want to be involved, or didn't know who they were, or were householders who returned to their homes (or were holed up in them trying to get through it) and found bodies abandoned there. If there were daily riots, roving bands of thugs looking for any excuse to loot or burn your home, a house had been burned up the street, you had no way of knowing when things would calm down, and there were a body in front of your house in July, how long would you leave it there?

We also have a long tradition in New York City of reusing cemetaries, especially those of the poor. After a certain number of years we just put a park on top of them, or build a building there. Washington Park, Madison Square Park and Bryant Park are all Potter's Fields of the past. And during the excavations for the Federal Building downtown it was famously discovered that the land had formerly been a cemetary for slaves and free people of color. They still built the Federal Building on the site, but they did reserve a little plot on a spot across the street, and move all the bodies and body parts they could find there.

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

sbl
02-05-2009, 08:31 AM
"......They still built the Federal Building on the site, but they did reserve a little plot on a spot across the street, and move all the bodies and body parts they could find there....."


That gets us into another film...Poltergeist.

Thanks for the information Karin. Google Earth is a great tool for desk bound exploring.