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Indyguy
07-24-2006, 08:50 PM
In the future will my kids reenact the Desert Storm? See there I could be a expert( having served in the Marine Corps in DS 90-91) and would have authenic gear from the era. I never thought that those desert cammies would be museum pieces later in my life :eek: However would these new yet to be reenactors have the same agruments about stitches and what is and is not correct?
Seems strange to think that some day this may happen.
They reenact Vietnam , WWII and Korea so why not?

reb64
07-24-2006, 11:14 PM
where would you find enough iraqi looking men to get blown away or surrender here in the states or willing to do so.?

tompritchett
07-24-2006, 11:41 PM
However would these new yet to be reenactors have the same agruments about stitches and what is and is not correct?

Not really for at least a very good while. After all, they will be able to buy original unfiorms from various surplus stores. Arguments about stiches and material arise from the production of reproductions.

Footslogger
07-25-2006, 02:03 PM
Its here all ready in the UK, We have guy's at some Multi period events going round in all the desert gear. We even have guy's doing swat teams and all sorts of modern special forces stuff, kind of makes the historical re-enactment advertising a joke really and also quite disturbing as these SAS Wannabee's strut around as if they own the place.

SteveB

MStuart
07-26-2006, 11:41 AM
Steve:

It's nice to pretend. I'd wager that the vast majority couldn't make through the first day's real world training.

Mark

Footslogger
07-26-2006, 02:12 PM
Somthing tells me you may just be about right there Mark, having done the "real world training" in the British Army I'd say 5 minutes is about right.

SteveB

sbl
07-26-2006, 05:39 PM
I've got an early 1990s kevlar helmet, un-issued with Natick, Mass "owner's manual". If you're interested.

Indyguy
07-27-2006, 09:15 PM
I've got an early 1990s kevlar helmet, un-issued with Natick, Mass "owner's manual". If you're interested.
I bought One well lost one in 1990 and it cost me $109.00, I still have the one I lost in 1993, I was alwayus losing things, did I say Lose, oh well I really did lose the first one.

I guess time would increase the likelyhood that arguements would be started. I think it's silly that people would reenact SWAT? who's up for a Waco reenactment ?

tompritchett
07-27-2006, 09:19 PM
who's up for a Waco reenactment ?

Just remember that regardless of what the news media was saying, THERE WERE NO TANKS AT WACO. The "tanks" were all either Bradleys or Combat Engineer Vehicles. Trust the media to blow that one.

reb64
07-27-2006, 10:38 PM
What is a tank? lets see, armored vehicle with treads instea of tires, a turret, a heavy claiber gun, well thats a bradley!

reb64
07-27-2006, 10:42 PM
Not really for at least a very good while. After all, they will be able to buy original unfiorms from various surplus stores. Arguments about stiches and material arise from the production of reproductions.


I still have my uniform in a footlocker, plus kevlar cover, issued sunglasses, boonie cap, sewn on friendly reflective swatch. thats the easy part, but how do reenact falling scud missles?

tompritchett
07-27-2006, 11:19 PM
Trust me. A Bradley is not a tank, it is an armored personal carrier designed to counter-act the Soviet BMP. Just ask any member of the Marines or the Army. Spent 6 years playing with real tanks (M60A1s, M60A3s & M48A5s).

Indyguy
07-27-2006, 11:46 PM
Tanks, at WACO? hhmmmmm. Okay so who's going to play the Branchies?
Of Course this could spawn a whole lot of other non War related reenacting.

reb64
07-28-2006, 03:27 PM
Trust me. A Bradley is not a tank, it is an armored personal carrier designed to counter-act the Soviet BMP. Just ask any member of the Marines or the Army. Spent 6 years playing with real tanks (M60A1s, M60A3s & M48A5s).


of course I know its not a tank by offical decree, but it has all the tank qualities if not more. The iraseli merkava also can carry personnel and its called a tank. the bradley, its big, armored and has a turret, and gun and tow missle. this is more than most tanks had ww2 and ealier. we only call it a personnel carrier can it can carry them, but some are just tank like platforms, by definition it is a tank. I also was a crewman for m48s and m60's and the bradley packs more punch.

tompritchett
07-28-2006, 11:29 PM
I also was a crewman for m48s and m60's and the bradley packs more punch.

As far as offensive capabilities, it is a toss-up. Yes the Bradley has TOWs but the Bradley's chain gun is nothing like a 105. When fighting T-72s that outnumber you almost 10 to one, those faster firing rate of the main gun makes a big difference over the time it takes a TOW to reach its target. As far as survivability there is no comparison. Even the M48's and M60's which are a generation behind the Bradleys. I do not think that the Bradleys would have held up well had they had to withstand a typical Soviet preparatory artillery barrage. The Abrams - no comparison.

I am not arguing that tanks are necessarily superior to Bradleys, CEVs, or self-propelled artillery. It is just each vehicle is designed for their specific mission and therefore have different capabilities. Kinda like the difference between an Indy race car, a dragster and a sports car such as an Acrua TL. All are four wheel vehicle powered by internal combustion engines but all have different purposes and therefore different capabilities.

JMByrnes
07-29-2006, 09:38 AM
Arguments about stitches arise from the lack of surviving originals and a lack of research put into producting reproductions. The fortunate thing about modern warfare is that it is recorded in a much more detailed manner, so when the younger generations go to reenact DS they'll have much more information to go off of that we as reenactors don't have know (for example the internet and television). As Tom also stated there will be much more surplus that will probably survive long enough to get into the hands of reenactors.

reb64
07-29-2006, 03:42 PM
[QUOTE=tompritchett]As far as offensive capabilities, it is a toss-up. Yes the Bradley has TOWs but the Bradley's chain gun is nothing like a 105. When fighting T-72s that outnumber you almost 10 to one, those faster firing rate of the main gun makes a big difference over the time it takes a TOW to reach its target. As far as survivability there is no comparison. Even the M48's and M60's which are a generation behind the Bradleys. I do not think that the Bradleys would have held up well had they had to withstand a typical Soviet preparatory artillery barrage. The Abrams - no comparison.

I rod e a m-60 and it was always one law round/rpg round away from being a hulk. if a bradley and m48 or m60 spotted each other at the same time, I'm betting the chain gun would put rounds on the tank faster and put it out of action, faster than a tank crew can load and aquire a first rounfd hit. I have seen bradley rounds penetrate every tank except the m-1 at ranges, but they didn't have those on ranges in my days. the armor is also better than a m60 or m48. Also a bradly can unload anti tank gunners, and with javelin can fire and forget and move out. t-72s would never have superiority in numbers, with the chain gun , dismounts and always overwatching apaches and cobras. and don't forget the sheridan, called a tank but it had a shilleglah missle. Now thats someting I wouldn't call a tank but is one.

reb64
07-29-2006, 03:43 PM
Arguments about stitches arise from the lack of surviving originals and a lack of research put into producting reproductions. The fortunate thing about modern warfare is that it is recorded in a much more detailed manner, so when the younger generations go to reenact DS they'll have much more information to go off of that we as reenactors don't have know (for example the internet and television). As Tom also stated there will be much more surplus that will probably survive long enough to get into the hands of reenactors.


But can they recreate the wolfburger stands, complete with card games and girls!

tompritchett
07-29-2006, 11:47 PM
One problem is that we are comparing two generations of weapons. The M60 and M48s were the generation of the Cobra and 113 APCs while the Bradley is of the generation of the Abrams and the Apache. But then again, as an ex-Armor officer, I am a purist on this issue.