Happy Confederate Heroes Day

[David Meister]

Happy Confederate Heroes Day!!!

[sbl]

So what did you get them? ;)

[Robert A Mosher]

Happy Confederate Heroes Day!!!

Thank you, and I'm sure you are out volunteering in your community today, too.

Robert A. Mosher

[FloridaConfederate]

Thank you, and I'm sure you are out volunteering in your community today, too.

Robert A. Mosher


I am always leery of the motivations of one who volunteers for something and then feels compelled to mention his volunteering as means of attention.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Robert A Mosher]

I am always leery of the motivations of one who volunteers for something and then feels compelled to mention his volunteering as means of attention.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

An interesting observation to offer from lef -excuse me, - RIGHT field and apropos of nothing, as usual.

I mentioned the volunteering aspect in reference to President-elect Obama's call for people to spend today honoring Martin Luther King by volunteering in their community today. I would also note that neither he nor I offered any suggestions or limitations on what that volunteer opportunity might entail, so if feel free to exercise your imagination. Oh, and so as not to offend anyone don't mention it here! Just keep your light underneath that basket.

Robert A. Mosher

[Headlog]

The only volunteering I would do on Confederate "Heroes" Day is join Union forces to crush another treasonous attempt at Rebellion.

http://sheperdpaine.com/gallery/scratchbuilt/Union_Forever.JPG

[reb64]

It used to be lee-Jackson day as well as mlk day in Va. Has the title expanded or changed to Confederate heroes day? Not aware of it and always looking to learn new things.

[jademonkey]

If I am not mistaken "Confederate Heroes Day" is only recognized in Texas by that name. I could be wrong.

[David Meister]

The third Monday is in January is Confederate Heroes Day

I see this day as a day to honor all Confederate States Heroes military and civilian who exercised their right and duty to throw off a tyrannical government which enforced its will through coercion. Fighting and supporting
those who fought for their Independence in America's second war for independence.

Americas second war for independence however was lost when the Armies of the Confederate States surrendered to the Federal Army between April and June 1865 The Cause for Independence was thus ground beneath the tyrant’s heals for their demands of justice. The Union as established by our forefathers ceased to exist and the government as originally organized was and is no longer administered in purity and truth.

[Pvt Schnapps]

In Virginia I think it went from Lee-Jackson-King Day to straight up MLK Day in 2000. I kind of liked the irony and sense of historical movement in L/J/MLK Day, but can't say I mind the current designation.

As for "Confederate Heroes Day", at least it leaves us 364 other days on which to celebrate the just plain regular guys on both sides. But I hope the celebrants still make time at some other point in the year to celebrate the preacher who also gave his life for his country.

[David Meister]

In a way Martin Luther King Jr. threw off a tyrannical Government by refusing to be treated with inequality. All American citizens whether north, occupied south, east or west deserve to be treated with equal rights dignity and respect regardless of religion or skin color.

Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day which coincidentally is on the same day this year as Confederate Heroes Day, General Robert E. Lee's Birthday and the day Georgia seceded from the United States

[LibertyHallVols]

In a way Martin Luther King Jr. threw off a tyrannical Government by refusing to be treated with inequality. All American citizens whether north, occupied south, east or west deserve to be treated with equal rights dignity and respect regardless of religion or skin color.


Are you SERIOUS!?!?!?!?!?!?

[MMurphy]

To the best of my knowledge "Confederate Heroes Day" is celebrated and observed in Texas on Jan 21, (or the third monday in January). Not sure if it is actually a recognized holidy in any other state.

[tompritchett]

Originally Posted by David Meister
In a way Martin Luther King Jr. threw off a tyrannical Government by refusing to be treated with inequality. All American citizens whether north, occupied south, east or west deserve to be treated with equal rights dignity and respect regardless of religion or skin color.

Are you SERIOUS!?!?!?!?!?!?
__________________

If you think about the "tyrannical Government" being more a generic description for various legal restrictions placed upon blacks by various state and local governments at the time, I could see where he was coming from with that statement.

[reb64]

In a way Martin Luther King Jr. threw off a tyrannical Government by refusing to be treated with inequality. All American citizens whether north, occupied south, east or west deserve to be treated with equal rights dignity and respect regardless of religion or skin color.

Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day which coincidentally is on the same day this year as Confederate Heroes Day, General Robert E. Lee's Birthday and the day Georgia seceded from the United States


The Lee Jackson day was already a holiday when MLK was added to it. Nothing bad was meant by it, just everyone of these guys birth day seem to fall around the same time. I heard they were going to make the lee jackson day friday and mlk monday but am not sure if it was changed. The only thing I find odd is that he was republican and so were most of the early black leaders, yet hardly no one at work or outside history circles knows that.

[flattop32355]

Are you SERIOUS!?!?!?!?!?!?

*Sigh*

Yes, I believe he is.

[7thMDYankee]

The Union as established by our forefathers ceased to exist and the government as originally organized was and is no longer administered in purity and truth.

Some would argue this actually happened some years earlier with the nullification crisis... In fact, I'd argue it would have had to, and the events of 1860 to 1865 were merely extensions of executive power first asserted/suggested by Andrew Jackson. But, then again I am just a history teacher...

[sbl]

Today's Republican Party is not "your dad's Republican Party." It's not even your GGGG Grandfather's Republican Party. You milage of approval may vary.

[DamYankee25]

The Lee Jackson day was already a holiday when MLK was added to it. Nothing bad was meant by it, just everyone of these guys birth day seem to fall around the same time. I heard they were going to make the lee jackson day friday and mlk monday but am not sure if it was changed. The only thing I find odd is that he was republican and so were most of the early black leaders, yet hardly no one at work or outside history circles knows that.

Yes, in the state of Virginia, Lee/Jackson Day was on Januar 16 this year (friday) and MLK on Monday. There was argument in the legislature several years back and they split the two up.

[flattop32355]

Today's Republican Party is not "your dad's Republican Party." It's not even your GGGG Grandfather's Republican Party. You milage of approval may vary.

Likewise, I doubt Andrew Jackson would recognize the Democrat Party of today as his own.

Part of that is natural, as time passed and the country grew to be greater, in multiple ways, than most of them ever thought it could become.

Other aspects are due to issues that many could not imagine in their time.

And others are due to seemingly complete shifts in emphasis by a given party.

Why we are surprised at such surprises surprises me. :confused: :rolleyes:

[sbl]

Not me! :)

[Danny]

...I see this day as a day to honor all Confederate States Heroes military and civilian who exercised their right and duty to throw off a tyrannical government which enforced its will through coercion. Fighting and supporting those who fought for their Independence in America's second war for independence....

David -

Could it not be said that African Americans and white Unionists in the Confederate States (in other words more than half the people who lived there) were fighting for their independence in America's second war for independence? It was after all their cause for Independence that was being ground beneath tyrant’s heels enforced through coercion, opposing their demands of justice. And isn't it truer that the Union established by our forefathers, you know, the one based on the precept: "all men are created equal" was for the first time in the Nation's history upheld, rather than destroyed?

If then we are to honor all the Confederate States Heroes, (per your statement including civilians) than we must include many African Americans and Unionists as well, and why not?

Dan Wykes

[FloridaConfederate]

If then we are to honor all the Confederate States Heroes, (per your statement including civilians) than we must include many African Americans and Unionists as well, and why not?

Dan Wykes


Confederate Heroes Day only honors those CS heroes who killed Yankees. Sorry.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[plankmaker]

OK, that logic, brought this to mind. Yes, it involves Pi, not pie mind you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZlyHtSZsYQ

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[Danny]

Confederate Heros Day only honors those CS heros who killed Yankees. Sorry.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

Chris -

I accept your apology.

Dan Wykes

[FloridaConfederate]

My bad Mark.... fair enough.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[plankmaker]

Chris, wasn't responding to yours. I was respoding to Danny's rather circular logic there. Sorry for the cornfusion.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[David Meister]

The Civil War was not civil. In fact, it was not a civil war. There were not two factions of government both of which claiming to be the legitimate one. The war between the states and the many other names it has been called is not technically a war at all. Did congress ever officially declare a state of war exist between the United States and the Confederate States? I see the United States role in America’s Second War for Independence much as I see Britain's role in America's First War for Independence. In response to Danny there were loyalists as well as slaves in the United States during America’s first War for independence. There were also slaves in the United States after the War Between the States.

As part of the public subjugation system's "American Civil War History Curriculum" everyone is led to believe that America's War of Secession was fought specifically to abolish slavery. I submit the following quote from an outsiders perspective differing with that Idea.

"The Union government liberates the enemy's slaves as it would the enemy's cattle, simply to weaken them in the conflict. The principle is not that a human being cannot justly own another, but that he cannot own him unless he is loyal to the United States."
London Spectator in reference to the Emancipation Proclamation

[plankmaker]

In order to declare war on the CS, the US would have had to recognize the CS as a separate country. That wasn't going to happen. I read something about the CS wanting to set up an embassy in DC at one time. That didn't go over well. I'll have to remember where I read that.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[David Meister]

If the States that Seceded never left the Union according to the Federal Government? Why did they later have to be Readmitted to the Union?

[FloridaConfederate]

If the States that Seceded never left the Union according to the Federal Government? Why did they later have to be Readmitted to the Union?


Because administrations have played little word games with the law and Constitution since before the signatures were even dry.

As of yesterday TV man says we haz a President who don't do dat now.


Chris Rideout
Tampa, FLorida

[plankmaker]

Because the winners said so. The Reconstruction had some really strange requirements for the rebellious States if they wanted their representation back in the Legislative Branch. It was the Fed Guvment at its best.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[plankmaker]

This kind of sorta explains it:

http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/exhibits/forever/freedom/page5.html

I think it was more, getting even.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[flattop32355]

Mr. Meister,

You are dead set in your viewpoint on the subject. You are more than welcome to that point of view, correct or incorrect, and whether anyone else chooses to share it, in its totality or in part.

My viewpoint is that your viewpoint is incorrect, based upon my own reasonings. I am equally welcome to mine as you are to yours. Neither of us has any posibility of changing the other's point of view. Only fools would continue to attempt such, given the absolute entrenchment of our opinions, and I do not think either of us a fool.

Given the above, I pose the following queries to you, for my own personal enlightenment:

1) The South having lost their effort to break away from the Union, do you regret now being a citizen of the United States of America, the country that prevented said breaking away?

2) Given the ensuing national/world history after the conflict at issue, do you believe that the Southern states would have been better off separate from the Union than as a part of that Union?

3) Do you believe that the issue of slavery had any bearing upon the reasons for the Southern states to secede, beyond being a component of the "states rights" issue?

In addition:
Wars have been fought for millennia without any formal declaration of war, which is a relatively modern fabrication, between combatants. As to a legal definition of war; that, too, is a modern concept. Any armed conflict resulting in large numbers of deaths, etc. meets the traditional definition of war. One may add other terms to it, such as revolution or civil or what have you, but it is, in the end, still war.

You are correct that the Emancipation Proclamation was never intended to free all slaves. It was, indeed, a military and economic tool to weaken the South's ability to carry on the war, and it proved most effective.

Mr. Lincoln had repeatedly stated that he had no constitutional authority to abolish slavery, but did wish to see it limited to the areas in which it already existed, with a fervent hope that it would one day cease altogether. Had there been no states in armed conflict within the Union, no proclamation would have been issued. The greater issue of the correctness of the existance of slavery as an institution had to be dealt with by other means, at another time.

Let us also not forget that these same quoted English, who cast a jaundiced eye at Mr. Lincoln and his administration, supported slavery for many, many years before finally, and somewhat reluctantly, seeing the light and admitting to the error of their own involvement. Their quoted view strikes me as similar to the idea that there is no piety quite so strong and fervent as that of a reformed prostitute.

[sbl]

Pie are round, cornbread are square.

[Danny]

...In response to Danny there were loyalists as well as slaves in the United States during America’s first War for independence. There were also slaves in the United States after the War Between the States...

David - And in that first war for independence there were heroes on both sides, to get back to the point of the thread. There weren't any legal slaves in the United States after the War. Folks were illegally kept as slaves after the CW, and even today. So what point is there to be made about that?


...everyone is led to believe that America's War of Secession was fought specifically to abolish slavery... I submit... "...the Union government liberates the enemy's slaves as it would the enemy's cattle, simply to weaken them in the conflict. The principle is not that a human being cannot justly own another, but that he cannot own him unless he is loyal to the United States."

... which confirms then that the war became about abolishing slavery, doesn't it? Whatever started it doesn't matter, whatever the motivation doesn't matter. Anyway it worked and we are all glad slavery didn't survive. I know you agree with me in that.

Dan Wykes

[David Meister]

There were legal slaves in the United States after the war until the 13th amendment was ratified.

Had the United States Lost its war for Independence and still remained in the British Empire Slavery would have ended in America by 1840

[tompritchett]

I pulled the posts on the House bill from this thread and moved them to a new thread. Consequently, if you are using the threaded or hybrid display modes to view this thread, you may want to switch to the linear mode as I am not sure that all the posts will be visible in the other two modes.

[plankmaker]

I guess it all depends on how your view the heros. Lots of blame to go around though, for sure.

http://www.mdgorman.com/Written_Accounts/Periodicals/ny_mollus_vol_iii_pp_472502.htm

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

[Texasbutternut]

Yes sir, it's celebrated in Texas. http://www.news8austin.com:80/content/headlines/?ArID=229426&SecID=2
It's celebrated in Alabama too, http://www.clantonadvertiser.com:80/news/2009/jan/19/confederate-gen-lee-gets-his-holiday-alabama/
It might be observed in Georgia and Arkansas, not sure.
Confederate Memorial Day is observed in late April.

Hank Van Slyke
3rd Texas Light Artillery