sealing rounds

[Slickrick214]

I was thinking about this while at work and I wanted to get your opinions. When it comes to making rounds I either roll my own or buy the pre rolled paper ladies sold at sutlers. I fill the round with powder then fold the top and tuck it into the crease. This usually holds but there are times the folded piece comes undone and powder leaks everywhere. So I got to thinking what’s a good way to seal the top of rounds? I want something that is strong, safe, and of period correct materials. This leaves out glue, staples and tape. So looking up info on the subject I came up with melted bees wax. I was thinking if you melt beeswax and dip the finished round into the wax the folded and tucked lip will be sealed and will be less likely to come undone. What do you guys think? How would they seal their rounds back then?

[RJSamp]

I was thinking about this while at work and I wanted to get your opinions. When it comes to making rounds I either roll my own or buy the pre rolled paper ladies sold at sutlers. I fill the round with powder then fold the top and tuck it into the crease. This usually holds but there are times the folded piece comes undone and powder leaks everywhere. So I got to thinking what’s a good way to seal the top of rounds? I want something that is strong, safe, and of period correct materials. This leaves out glue, staples and tape. So looking up info on the subject I came up with melted bees wax. I was thinking if you melt beeswax and dip the finished round into the wax the folded and tucked lip will be sealed and will be less likely to come undone. What do you guys think? How would they seal their rounds back then?

Linen thread.

[jurgitemvaletem]

Linen thread.


Yep.

I make the tied rounds per original specs taken from the Lazy Jacks site. never had a problem with them coming un done and leaking powder, even after bundling them and letting them ride arround in the bottoms of my cartridge box tins for a season or more.

They take a little more time (well, a lot more time) but they add to your impression and you can take pride in them. Not to mention THEY DON'T LEAK!!! :p

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge.htm

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Ditto on the tying of cartridges - works great and adds some authenticity to the least authentic thing we do - the skirmish. Also, please, please, please folks, stop referring to paper cartridge tubes as "paper ladies". This has been covered ad nauseum, but as a refresher, refer to the following thread previously posted: http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1050&page=3&highlight=paper+lady The Paper Lady is a company providing pre-rolled cartridge tubes (kind of like Kleenex, a recognized brand name, not an item)

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Forgot to mention that I second the Lazy Jacks site on cartridges, and if you can, track down Mr. Reardon's fine publication from "The Watchdog" and pay whatever you can for it.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x29/Ross4thUSInfy/Cartridges.jpg

[tompritchett]

The Paper Lady is a company providing pre-rolled cartridge tubes (kind of like Kleenex, a recognized brand name, not an item)

Just like making photocopies is not making automatically making a "Xerox" copy, shipping a item overnight is not by default "FedExing" it, or not all soft drinks are not "Cokes". But you do have to admit that it is nice from an advertising point of view when your company name becomes synominous with the type of product or service that your company produces. :)

[flattop32355]

There are two places the "reenactor round" cartridge papers can leak: Out the top when the flap comes loose, as you've noted, and at the bottom if the crimping isn't closed off all the way.

It's been my experience that most leakage is by the latter route.

Correctly made rounds take care of both problems, but take a lot more time to make, which is why they invented the "off season". :)

[orngblsm]

All have been great suggestions, but rich, I believe you were referring to the tail of the cartridge leaking. To cure this fold the tail one way then back over itself. Mr. Lamoreaux's photo illustrates this perfectly. Another thing that can be a problem is using newsprint. Newsprint tends to be just a bit to flimsy to hold an edge and hence leaks like crazy. Make sure you're using a rigid enough paper. Masking paper works great and also comes in colors very accurate to the original paper used.

[RJSamp]

This has been covered ad nauseum, but as a refresher, refer to the following thread previously posted: http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1050&page=3&highlight=paper+lady The Paper Lady is a company providing pre-rolled cartridge tubes (kind of like Kleenex, a recognized brand name, not an item)

But like a brand name item, in the argot, most of us immediately recognize what a paper lady is....the fact that it has been covered ad nauseum proves the point....

Ask your kids if they want a 'band-aid' next time they have an owwie.....every made a 'xerox' (try saying dry reprographic copy instead)? nothing like 'ditto' paper....

Get with the times Ross, k (which came from OK which came from AOK)?

[Craig L Barry]

The first point would be that SlickRick is using commercially purchased paper tubes, which are twisted at the bottom (crimped and stuffed back into the tube) and open at the top. His question is different from what we are answering as you can't seal those the same way that round was sealed in the 1860s. You can't "tie the top with linen string" and have anything that is either period correct or leakproof, the latter being what he was asking about. So, to seal a filled pre-rolled commercial cartridge tube, after filling the tube with black powder crimp and fold over at the powder line. With your finger push down on the folded top half of the tube, and fold the two sides of the tube so they meet in the middle. Crease that and you have a tab that is about half as wide as the tube. Nothing is getting out of there until you tear it. Fold the tab along the top of the round and fold it again so it lies flat against the side of the tube (and looks like the picture in the above post). Now you have a cartridge that looks good sitting in the tins, is easy to tear and doesn't leak.

Second is if you want to make period correct paper cartridges, choke-tied at the base into a floret with linen string and folded as described above to seal the top, you probably need to make your own tubes. Start with 3M masking paper and follow the instructions from there that are either on the Lazy Jacks website or in the pamphlet Making Cartridges. You can also buy tubes that are properly made from Nick Sekela, and those are very good. The cost is $7 or $8 for forty...and that's all labor because the materials are next to nothing. My only complaint with those was that the paper was a little too heavy in weight, which I think has been corrected. That is probably the easiest method to facilitate the appearance of a period correct cartridge. However, it is time consuming and many serious participants primarily use these for living histories and park service historical weapons demos.

To paraphrase my lifelong inspiration, muse, and role models The Three Stooges, "...one's for showing and one's for blowing."

[CameronsHighlander]

The Flaw with wax is heat wax has to be kept hot if it cools too much it hardens, but hot and Gun powder don't exactly mix very even if you use an electric stove any powder spills near the coils and Flash up is likely

[Artyman]

In the past I have attended events where the cartridges were provided, already loaded! (Yorktown 1981 as an example). They were dipped in wax. Not a bad idea, until you bite one off and the wax sticks to and gets between your teeth!

I never have had any problem with leaky cartridges, live or blank either one. The trick is to be careful and roll 'em tight, crimp the base (or tie it) with enough paper to make a good closure, and fold over the top tightly.

In the winter I use waxed paper. Helps to keep 'em dry. Fortunately I do very little blank fire in the winter.

Kevin Dally just set me up with the stuff to roll Enfield cartridges. Now there's a construction project for you! These stay rolled by using a "tape" strip stuck around the catridge. Works great. First dry day I'm planning to use up a bunch of these!

Thanks Kevin!

I had a friend who didn't use cartridges at all, but used cut off cigar tubes. He smoked enough of them to always have several dozen handy. He's dead now, probably from smoking all those cigars.

Harry

[Slickrick214]

In the past I have attended events where the cartridges were provided, already loaded! (Yorktown 1981 as an example). They were dipped in wax. Not a bad idea, until you bite one off and the wax sticks to and gets between your teeth!

I never have had any problem with leaky cartridges, live or blank either one. The trick is to be careful and roll 'em tight, crimp the base (or tie it) with enough paper to make a good closure, and fold over the top tightly.

In the winter I use waxed paper. Helps to keep 'em dry. Fortunately I do very little blank fire in the winter.

Kevin Dally just set me up with the stuff to roll Enfield cartridges. Now there's a construction project for you! These stay rolled by using a "tape" strip stuck around the catridge. Works great. First dry day I'm planning to use up a bunch of these!

Thanks Kevin!

I had a friend who didn't use cartridges at all, but used cut off cigar tubes. He smoked enough of them to always have several dozen handy. He's dead now, probably from smoking all those cigars.

Harry

You brought up a good point about biting into the rounds. I was thinking about that as I was debating on what to do. While the positive is the wax helps seal the flap the negative is it will be a pain to bite into the rounds. I guess it comes down to is it worth it. Is it worth the extra hassle of sealing the rounds and getting all the wax stuck in your teeth as compared to losing a few rounds to leaks.

The Flaw with wax is heat wax has to be kept hot if it cools too much it hardens, but hot and Gun powder don't exactly mix very even if you use an electric stove any powder spills near the coils and Flash up is likely

I actually didn't think of that. I was thinking more on the lines of extreme heat being the enemy. My thoughts were if the rounds get to hot in the summer months the wax will begin to slowly melt. This in turn will get melted wax all over the place. I am familiar with making candles out of paraffin wax so I understand the dangers with fire, wax and powder. A wax fire is just as dangerous as an oil or grease fire. I would pour the powder into the tube then clip it tightly in the center of the round. This would seperate the powder from the wax while I am doing the dipping process.