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MAryland Field Hospital
01-14-2009, 12:17 PM
This makes me sick, i am a patient there at Hopkins who has flushed millions of dollars to them over my 31 years with my Cystic Fibrosis and my double lung transplant in 07 . My doctors loved comming out to see the confederate field hospital i set up , and some of them are black too . Really sad that i cant use the facility that i have helped to make filthy rich to honor my ancestry. I know this is last years but they have instated it too for this year seeing as how Obama has been elected is there new reason . the Mayor of Baltimore Dixon ..you know the woman who steals from the poor , is trying to get the entire gathering banned , on grounds its racist ..... I guess she doesn't know her history

Johns Hopkins University says tells Confederate descendants they can't rent room on campus
The Baltimore Sun ^ | 20 January 2008 | Stephen Kiel


Every January, descendants of Confederate soldiers gather in Wyman Park to...lay wreaths at the monument to Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, legendary generals of the Confederate States of America. And afterward, for 20 years now, everyone has gone across the street to the Johns Hopkins University for coffee and refreshments...Hopkins has informed the Maryland divisions of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Sons of Confederate Veterans that it will not rent space to them.
TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans; Society
KEYWORDS: academia; confederate; discrimination; dixie; freedomofcontract; freespeech; jhu; johnshopkins; maryland; propertyrights; scv
Every January, descendants of Confederate soldiers gather in Wyman Park to march under the banner of the Confederacy, sing "Dixie" and lay wreaths at the monument to Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, legendary generals of the Confederate States of America.

And afterward, for 20 years now, everyone has gone across the street to the Johns Hopkins University for coffee and refreshments, with some of the 200 descendants and observers still wearing the uniforms of Confederate re-enactors and carrying the flag. But next year will be different.

Hopkins has informed the Maryland divisions of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Sons of Confederate Veterans that it will not rent space to them. The Jan. 17 event is scheduled for only a few days before the inauguration of the nation's first African-American president. The university received complaints after the march last January and says that it no longer wants to see the Confederate flag flying on campus.

"We're not legally required to rent rooms to anybody who asks, and in this case we have chosen not to rent a room," said Hopkins spokesman Dennis O'Shea. "We choose not to have the Confederate battle flag carried across our campus, particularly at that time of year, so very close to the Martin Luther King holiday." The university is sensitive to racial issues. Two years ago, a student posted an invitation to a fraternity Halloween party on Facebook, dubbing it "Halloween in the Hood" and encouraging those who attended to wear "regional clothing from our locale" such as "bling bling ice ice, grills" and "hoochie hoops." The student was suspended.

Members of the Confederate groups say they are victims of political correctness run amok. They say they seek only to honor their ancestors and that they have caused no problems in the previous two decades they have used Hopkins facilities. At first, they said, Hopkins gave them space for free. But then prices went up. The groups paid $375 to rent space in Shriver Hall last January.

"We're being singled out for being the descendants of Confederate soldiers," said G. Elliott Cummings, 69, adjutant of the Col. Harry W. Gilmor Camp of the Sons of Confederate veterans. "It's our purpose to remember them and honor their service. ... We're proud of our ancestors. We have no political agenda whatsoever."

The ceremony will go on. The groups get city permits to gather in the public park next to the Baltimore Museum of Art, where the monument of Jackson and Lee astride horses was dedicated in 1948. The seven-ton, 14-foot-high statue depicts the two generals at their last meeting, in 1863 during the Battle of Chancellorsville, Va. Shortly after, Jackson was accidentally shot and killed by his own men.

In previous years, the ceremony has featured music from the Civil War period, a Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag, a salute to the Confederate flag, and a march from the southern end of the Hopkins campus down Wyman Park Drive to the monument. The march will be shortened this January so the groups do not step on Hopkins property.

"I can assure you there will be a celebration of General Lee's and General Jackson's birthday," said Cummings, who counts 20 ancestors, including his great-great-grandfather, as Confederate soldiers. Lee was born Jan. 19, 1807, and Jackson on Jan. 21, 1824.

Cummings, of Towson, said the lack of a reception site will surely depress turnout because it means there will be no bathroom facilities, a particular problem because many of the participants are older.

"I can't encourage people to come if they're going to be uncomfortable," Cummings said. But he remained defiant. "They're not going to deter us from having it. Maybe that was their intention, but that's not going to happen."

Hopkins officials said they have no control or desire to control what happens on public property.

News of the refusal was first reported on the Web site Inside Higher Ed this week, after appearing on several blogs of Confederate groups and Southern writers last week. The blogs have urged readers to contact Hopkins President William R. Brody. A Hopkins spokesman said Brody has received "some" communications but declined to characterize their nature.

Sons of Confederate Veterans released a letter from Brody's executive assistant, sent after the group asked the university to reconsider its stance. "We have considered our decision and do not wish to change it," said the letter from Brody assistant Jerome D. Schnydman, dated Oct. 14.

The Confederate groups say they have been misunderstood, and that the flag to them represents their ancestors who fought in what they call the War Between the States and the Revolutionary War. "You have a situation where we've let other people define us, and in the past haven't spoken out as strongly as we should about other groups who have usurped the use of our flag," said Michael K. Williams, commander of the Gilmor Camp of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

He acknowledged that Hopkins is a private institution, but he said that because it receives federal money it must adhere to federal nondiscriminatory policies when it comes to renting space on campus. Williams said his group is a federally registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.

FloridaConfederate
01-14-2009, 12:30 PM
There is no upside to having you utilize their facility for CS related events in the new paradigm. Only potential downsides.


Do your thing at the memorial and hit a coffee shop.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

MAryland Field Hospital
01-17-2009, 06:00 PM
i agree , its pointless to try and go some where we arent welcome..it would only cause trouble . Still sad though :cry:

hanktrent
01-17-2009, 06:52 PM
He acknowledged that Hopkins is a private institution, but he said that because it receives federal money it must adhere to federal nondiscriminatory policies when it comes to renting space on campus. Williams said his group is a federally registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.

I noticed this while the thread was closed, but enjoyed the irony and wanted to comment on it.

Sons of Confederate veterans hoping to be protected by nondiscriminatory policies mandated by the Federal government. How times change! :D

But yeah, if Johns Hopkins is a private institution with no other issues, then their freedom to deny rental of space to those who want to carry the flag is the same as others' freedom to display the flag on their own private property--it goes both ways. You just have to shrug and deal with it.

If there are federal funds and a nondiscriminatory policy involved, that's another issue, but it would depend on what the protected groups are. Don't know anything about that law, but sometimes the protected classes are narrowly specified: only gender, race, religion, etc.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

reb64
01-17-2009, 11:38 PM
IBut yeah, if Johns Hopkins is a private institution with no other issues, then their freedom to deny rental of space to those who want to carry the flag is the same as others' freedom to display the flag on their own private property--it goes both ways. You just have to shrug and deal with it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

The first responder quoted the hospital as having King Hussein as the reason for the refusal, [deletion - THP; and I have also said it many times, leave off the modern political commentary]

Ross L. Lamoreaux
01-17-2009, 11:59 PM
I had completely forgot about the Jordanian monarch joining the Democratic party before he passed on. Guess that happens when you marry hot Hollywood actresses.

sbl
01-18-2009, 03:28 AM
Someone always has to poop in the pool......(sigh)

reb64
01-19-2009, 12:26 AM
The first responder quoted the hospital as having King Hussein as the reason for the refusal, [deletion - THP; and I have also said it many times, leave off the modern political commentary]


This subject is all about modern politics and public opinion. If all we do is inaction then why are we suprised when things go against us?

hanktrent
01-19-2009, 06:56 AM
This subject is all about modern politics and public opinion. If all we do is inaction then why are we suprised when things go against us?

That's probably exactly what the Johns Hopkins folks thought when they saw Confederate flags and Confederate uniforms on their property that they didn't like.

If this is true: "We're not legally required to rent rooms to anybody who asks," then freedom goes both ways. Since Johns Hopkins still rents rooms to white people (presumably), and members of the SCV aren't considered a race, it would be tough to figure how to apply anti-discrimination laws, if it turns out they're applicable due to federal funds or some other reason, since the decision is based on the voluntary behavior of the applicants and not their race or even "country of origin." I'm a (gggrand)son of a Confederate veteran and I bet they'd rent a room to me, as long as I didn't carry a battle flag in.

If it turns out that anti-discrimination laws apply, one could argue that basically only white people would want to display a Confederate flag or join the SCV, so the decision is, effectively, racial discrimination against whites, but then that would just kinda prove Johns Hopkins' point, socially if not legally.

The SCV official I think pinpointed the problem: "You have a situation where we've let other people define us, and in the past haven't spoken out as strongly as we should about other groups who have usurped the use of our flag." I missed reading the deleted posts, but we all know what the SCV official is talking about, so if action needs to be taken, complaining that having an African-American President is cramping our style, probably isn't the best way.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

tompritchett
01-19-2009, 10:06 AM
This subject is all about modern politics and public opinion. If all we do is inaction then why are we suprised when things go against us?

While this issue is indeed very political, your comment which was deleted had very little to do with the specific issue but was instead a general rant against a specific political party. It was this latter part that resulted in the deletion. If you have specific comments made by individual politicians or specific portions of an individual party platform that relate to the discussion, those are allowable. But any general rants about any individual political party will be deleted - regardless of which party the rant is about. It seems that you have had trouble understanding the difference. With only a few exceptions, others have adapted their postings accordingly.

bob 125th nysvi
01-22-2009, 10:57 PM
feel that the John Hopkins decision is fair I will defend their right to make it. They ARE a private organization and can make any appropriate decision that meets the needs and wants of their members.

Quite honestly I don't want the government shoving things down my throat so I won't support it being done to others.

Let us flip this for a second would any of us want to be in a reenacting group where the government dictated to us who could or could not be a member? Or what reenactments we could or could not go to? Or which side we represent?

We wouldn't like that would we.

Now if it was the U of Maryland you might have a discrimination case.

If the SCV really wants to make a stink about this I suggest they comb their roles for any (big) donors the JH and ask them to talk to the board. I'd also suggest that any SCV members who donate to JH send in a letter instead saying you aren't donating anymore because they are refusing the use of facilities to the SCV.

And if this REALLY is about coffee, donuts and bathrooms how about the SCV asking to rent the space as usual with the stipulation that no CSA flags will be allowed to be displayed on campus? Or even carried onto campus?

Compromise is the art of governing.

5 th Alabama Infantry
01-24-2009, 05:25 PM
Despite the disgraceful decision by Johns Hopkins University to deny rental space to the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the Maryland Division United Daughters of the Confederacy, and the unfortunate support of that decision by the “Sun” Editor page; a very successful General Lee and General Jackson Birthday Ceremony was held on Saturday, January 17.

In spite of the severe cold, members of numerous patriot and historical groups, as well as interested citizens, gathered at the Lee and Jackson Monument to honor these two great Americans and the thousands that served with them during the War for Southern Independence.

Those of us who respect our ancestors and our history would not be deterred by the intolerance of Hopkins and of the “Sun” from holding our annual remembrance.

Elliott Cummings
Adjutant
Col. Harry W. Gilmor Camp #1388
SCV

hendrickms24
01-25-2009, 09:47 AM
Despite the disgraceful decision by Johns Hopkins University to deny rental space to the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the Maryland Division United Daughters of the Confederacy, and the unfortunate support of that decision by the “Sun” Editor page; a very successful General Lee and General Jackson Birthday Ceremony was held on Saturday, January 17.

Was this a disgraceful display by JHU? No, I don't think so but that just my own option.



In spite of the severe cold, members of numerous patriot and historical groups, as well as interested citizens, gathered at the Lee and Jackson Monument to honor these two great Americans and the thousands that served with them during the War for Southern Independence.

Those of us who respect our ancestors and our history would not be deterred by the intolerance of Hopkins and of the “Sun” from holding our annual remembrance.

Elliott Cummings
Adjutant
Col. Harry W. Gilmor Camp #1388
SCV

Well it looks like it was a good thing all around and your group did not have to spend money on rent and food. I’m sure the participants were happy just doing the Ceremony so just remember that for next year and while your at it send the money you saved on the reception and give it to CWPT.

tompritchett
01-25-2009, 10:48 AM
and while your at it send the money you saved on the reception and give it to CWPT.

There is also an organization whose sole purpose is to restore grave markers of deceased Confederate soldiers which could also use the funding. I am sure that the organizers of the ceremony are familar with the name of this organization and I can think of no better cause for an SCV chapter to support except possibly the restoration of actual Confederate regimental battleflags.

hendrickms24
01-25-2009, 12:06 PM
There is also an organization whose sole purpose is to restore grave markers of deceased Confederate soldiers which could also use the funding. I am sure that the organizers of the ceremony are familar with the name of this organization and I can think of no better cause for an SCV chapter to support except possibly the restoration of actual Confederate regimental battleflags.
Tom that sound like like two other good ideas that the money saved could go towards.

FloridaConfederate
01-25-2009, 12:29 PM
There is also an organization whose sole purpose is to restore grave markers of deceased Confederate soldiers which could also use the funding. I am sure that the organizers of the ceremony are familar with the name of this organization and I can think of no better cause for an SCV chapter to support except possibly the restoration of actual Confederate regimental battleflags.

Uh in Florida that is the SCV..the SCV hates me as much as y'all do but....

In 1987 the Museum of Florida History and the Florida Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans began an extensive project to study and preserve the flag collection. The goals of this project are to stabilize each flag and to provide appropriate storage and exhibit conditions for long-term preservation. Museum staff members compiled a survey of holdings and began to research the histories of both the collection and individual flags. At the same time, the Sons of Confederate Veterans initiated a fund raising campaign.
A nationally-known textile conservator made an on-site evaluation of the collection in May 1989. The conservator prepared a detailed condition report and treatment proposal for each flag. She also made recommendations for improvements in the storage and exhibit environments for the collection.
Good pics of the flags here:

http://www.florida-scv.org/projects/flag%20fund/index.htm

This monument was relocated, preserved and saved by the efforts of the SCV (Preserving our Heritage Inc) and the UDC.


http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/pics_04/0457.jpg

http://www.hillsboroughcounty.org/publicart/saveoursculpture/supportstatements.cfm




Memoria In Aeterna, 1911

Statements of Support

"Memoria In Aeterna, 1911 is a memorial sculpture that has earned a unique and everlasting identity, both in Hillsborough County history, and now on the SOS! National Registry. Just look to the sculpture where its poetry is written, 'United in the Past; One in the Future." It was 85 years ago that the United Daughters of the Confederacy (U.D.C.) Tampa Chapter #113 donated "Memoria In Aeterna", the first, and to date, the County's only SOS! documented sculpture erected primarily to memorialize the Confederacy. "The Hillsborough County Historical Commission is very pleased that Memoria In Aeterna has earned its place on the prestigious SOS! national registry. We actively encourage and support the longterm conservation and protection of contemporary and historic works of public art. "

Randy Stevens
Chairman, Hillsborough County Historical Commission

On January 11, 1911, the Tampa UDC Chapter #113 unveiled its Civil War monument on the grounds of the (original) Hillsborough County Courthouse. The objectives of the Tampa Chapter #113, Florida Division, U.D.C. are historical, benevolent, educational, memorial and patriotic. The Tampa Chapter was chartered in 1897 making 1997 its significant centennial year.

The U.D.C. is pleased to be involved during this year in the important conservation of this meaningful sculpture.

Catheryn Garth Lancaster,
Honorary President, Florida Division
Honorary President, U.D.C. General

"With more than 6,000 members in Hillsborough County, Preserving Our Heritage, Inc. initiated the process for this conservation in 1994. Preserving Our Heritage, Inc. acted as a coordinating organization for the various local groups and individuals who also expressed concerned with the condition of the "Memoria In Aeterna." Many of these interested citizens are descendants of the men and boys in gray and today, whole heartedly support this effort to stabilize and conserve the County's only memorial to the American veterans of the South. Of course, the Tampa Bay area was significantly involved in the Confederacy during 1861-65, contributing its hopes, treasures and lifeblood for the Cause of Florida, her sister states and of the South. The conservation of "Memoria In Aeterna" will serve to educate Tampa Bay's diverse population as to the valuable and unique character of our cultural and historic heritage. "

Marion D.Lambert
Chairman, Tampa Bay Chapter, Preserving Our Heritage,Inc.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

5 th Alabama Infantry
01-25-2009, 03:40 PM
There is also an organization whose sole purpose is to restore grave markers of deceased Confederate soldiers which could also use the funding. I am sure that the organizers of the ceremony are familar with the name of this organization and I can think of no better cause for an SCV chapter to support except possibly the restoration of actual Confederate regimental battleflags.


Perhaps you and Mr. Maranto are not familar with the Col. Harry W. Gilmor Camp Adopt a Confederate Program . So far, we with the generous help of many contributors, have placed markers at over 350 Confederate graves on Confederate Hill , Loudon Park, Baltimore.


I invite to review our web site.

http://www.mdscv.org/1388/adopt-a-confederate/

Rather than being critical of others, you might get out your check books.