De-farb a stock

[Cove Rebel]

I've occasionally seen or heard discussions of how factory musket stocks are not right (heavier, fatter, etc). How much work is this and does it need to be done? I am looking at tightening up my impression and my enfield stock is factory finished from Euroarms.

What recommendations do you have on making it more authentic that I can do myself?

[Cove Rebel]

Nevermind...I just found the "SEARCH" function on the website. :D

[Blair]

Russell,
So what have you been able to find out?
Are you going to refinish your stock or have someone else do it for you?
Blair Taylor

[Cove Rebel]

I'm thinking about doing the stock myself during the winter off-season. I was able to find the following link which was seems helpful after a brief scan. Not sure on the barrel & lockplate.

http://authentic-campaigner.com/articles/walden/enfauth.htm#hammer

I didn't see any info on reshaping the stock to make it lighter, but then again I just scanned the article. I'm not positive any reshaping needs to occur.

This is a level of detail I have never really gotten into. I've always been sort of a '50-yard rule' guy. I'd like to fix that.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

Not knowing what one is doing can ruin a stock fairly quickly. Particulalry if one is reshaping the lock mortise panels to an "original Enfield's" more eliptical rather than rounded ends (a side discussion about variations on lack of standard original Enfields so noted).

And the other consideration is that the Italian repro's have parts that are oversized but exist in harmony or relationship with other parts. Meaning, there is only so much "wood" that can be removed.

Another common area that can stand improvement is the thickness of the forestock as it leaves the lock area for the nose cap. It is not unusal on Italian guns to find the width of the forestock as it flows into the barrel to be as much as 1/8 to 3/16 inches of squared wood with the appearance of being "slab slided."

But, my caveat in addition to skill is that if one does not good references or better yet a number of unmessed-with originals to exam and work from- it can be hard and risky to start "removing wood" to "lighten" a gun. (Once removed, it is REAL hard to put back.. ;) )

Most lads just "settle for" refinishing such as in:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4498&highlight=Enfield+stock

Others' milage will vary...

CHS

[Blair]

Russell,

That is a good site.
Are you going to keep it as a 4th Patern? or change it to a 3rd Pattern Enfield?
You can reduce about a pound to a pound and a half of weight by reshaping and contouring the stock. But you have to be pretty agressive with it. If you are not too sure about you skills in being able to do this, it might be best to leave it alone, At least until you get a chance to check out more original Enfields.
If you plan on changing it to a 3rd Pattern, you should plan on having to refinsh the stock once you have the new barrel bands. Modifying the bands that come on the gun is possable. The bottom bands screw is set too close to the inside of the band for it to come out right.
Blair

[reb64]

I've occasionally seen or heard discussions of how factory musket stocks are not right (heavier, fatter, etc). How much work is this and does it need to be done? I am looking at tightening up my impression and my enfield stock is factory finished from Euroarms.

What recommendations do you have on making it more authentic that I can do myself?


late us rifles and carbines emplyoed a method of weight reduction by cutting out pockets or plugs of wood, in the butts tock etc. hidden by the butt plate

[Blair]

Rob,

What examples of coring/hollowing out the butt stocks have you seem?
I know this was done on the Henry's for a cleaning rod compartment and other firearms as a means of attaching the butt stock to the receiver as in the Smith Carbine.
Blair Taylor

[Cove Rebel]

Thanks for the words of caution Curt. At this point my only definite action will be to re-finish the stock. I don't have any plans to reduce/reshape at all. I don't have enough points of reference to do that.

Good comments on coreing the stock, but I'd have to ponder that for a while before I do it, if I do it at all. Weight isn't my issue as much as appearance.

[Blair]

Russell,

Coreing out the butt stock as was suggested is an option for reducing the overall weight of the firearm.
I think you will find that by reducing the weight in this manor, it will make the firearm seem very "muzzle heavy". You can test this for yourself by hanging a little weight, perhaps only a waist belt and lead filled buckle over the muzzle, and bring up the firearm like your taking aim.
Blair Taylor

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Indeed...

On Italian repro's, a proportion of the additional weight can be found in the barrel wall and the barrel's breech. Lightening the buttstock by an ounce or three through boring holes under the buttplate will not "lighten" the overall weight a drastic amount (and as shared, kills the "cantilever" effect on swing as well as balance due to making the piece more muzzle-heavy).

"late us rifles and carbines emplyoed a method of weight reduction by cutting out pockets or plugs of wood, in the butts tock etc. hidden by the butt plate"

I seemed to have missed that in my studies of Period arms. Some Period citations or references would aid in my education and would be greatly appreciated.

;) :)

CHS

[Craig L Barry]

...of the stock is largely due to the density of the wood used by the stock makers in Brescia. The so-called European "fruitwood" is denser than walnut. It is 4.0 lbs per board foot, v. 2.8 lbs per board foot for American walnut. Not much you can do about that...

To de-farb a stock would involve more than refinishing with boiled linseed oil, though that would be a good place to start. I would think you would need an original to copy in order to reproduce the same dimensions to the part around the lockplate, and wrist but obviously the stock channel has to be oversized to accept that enormous reproduction barrel. Then inspection stamps, maker's marks, roundels and so on would need to be added. Speaking from experience this is a job for a professional, because if you screw up there goes a $250 gun stock.

[Cove Rebel]

To de-farb a stock would involve more than refinishing with boiled linseed oil, though that would be a good place to start.

I think that is where I will start (and may be where I end). After reading some of the responses and careful consideration I'll re-evaluate my plan. You guys gave me lots to think about which is why I posted the question rather than "Googleing" it. :D Thanks.

[Tiger_rifles]

As for..... "a method of weight reduction by cutting out pockets or plugs of wood, in the butts tock etc. hidden by the butt plate"......
I have seen a large, single hole bored into a buttestock/under the butteplate on some older muskets. But I do not think this was for weight reduction. I have two old 1816/22 stocks that were bored out so they could be made into LAMPS! the hole starts under the butteplate and ends in the lockplate area. I have also read about Rifled 1842 mdl's that were cut down to make cavalry carbines, and help with the extra recoil, holes bored into the buttestocks were filled w/LEAD! (I think this is in Flaydermanns?).