Cotton trousers, how common?

[HCSmitty]

Ok, sooo how commin would cotton trousers have been. Obviously they would have probally been private purchase from home etc. Maybe some states issued them but i havent read enough, hince the reason i posted this. I saw the pair that belonged to Pvt. James Mckinstry and just had to ask this question.


Hunter Smith.

[Guy Gane III]

Hunter,

As no one else has posted an answer for you, I want to throw you a question. Are you asking this from a standpoint of seeing if it would be worth it to buy/make them for usage or are you asking as a point of reference?

The reason I ask this is that if you are thinking about making/buying a pair, then I would have to say "Go ahead!"

If you are asking for references, then I'll have to get back to you over the next few days...

Anybody else care to chime in? :mrgreen:

[HancockBuilder]

It does get hot here in Georgia. I would like to see some "experts" speak on this issue.

[HCSmitty]

Well i was wondering for both. I just want to kno, and also because i came into some linen that was free and am gona make a pair for a civilian impreassion reguardless. But then after viewing the pair of before mentioned originals, i got to wondering just how common would it have been to see johnnys stompin down the road in cotton trousers?

Hunter Smith.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Are there some known and documented pairs of cotton CS trousers, sure, several pairs from the Museum of the Confederacy, the Southern CW and Train Museum in Kennesaw, GA, and the Atlanta History Center are just three places that I can say I've seen them firsthand. There are of course several others you can find just by opening books. The real question should be how common were they in relation to what was worn and/or issued and I would say based on the percentages they were probably fewer. Although cotton was in abundance in certain areas of the south, in fact rotting away with a lack of export with the blockade, it does not make for a very durable pair of trousers for soldiers. Wool and wool blends such as jean cloth wear better over time. Wool jean is a combination of wool yarns woven into cotton yarns made, often made at home or in small quantities to save money. Prior to the war, it was also called slave cloth, and only the really rural poor or slaves wore it. Wool and linen were worn by most others, but as the war progressed, flax for linen was hard to find and wool was needed for other things, not just clothing. In fact, jean cloth became so prevelant over other forms of materials due to the fact that they could use some of that cotton available, but gain the durability and strength of the wool as well. That left more wool available for blankets and other uses. To cut to the chase, if you want to wear cotton trousers, there are plenty of documented cases of such, depending upon your social station and impression, but just like then, they won't wear as long or as well as the heavier materials. In the hear they tend to be more confortable, but if you're wearing the correct drawers, even wool, wool jean, and other heavier fibers aren't so bad.

[HCSmitty]

Well here is some interesting information. I would think some people would have heard this. But when stoneman came through salisbury they say he spared much of the town( ive heard it was due to the large amount of free masons resideing in the city). And that a Very large quantity of uniforms escaped being burnt, somwhere between 10,000 and 15,000. It is to my knowledge that these were all Grey cotton uniforms of a non descript style. Could be that the CS government was catchin onto the "we should have done this from the start" notion. But also in the area during WW2 there was a somewhat large POW camp and what do u suppose the they wore????? U got it. Probally the only case of Confederate clad "croutes" in history.

Hunter Smith.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Well here is some interesting information. I would think some people would have heard this. But when stoneman came through salisbury they say he spared much of the town( ive heard it was due to the large amount of free masons resideing in the city). And that a Very large quantity of uniforms escaped being burnt, somwhere between 10,000 and 15,000. It is to my knowledge that these were all Grey cotton uniforms of a non descript style. Could be that the CS government was catchin onto the "we should have done this from the start" notion. But also in the area during WW2 there was a somewhat large POW camp and what do u suppose the they wore????? U got it. Probally the only case of Confederate clad "croutes" in history.

Hunter Smith.
I've seen images of the "Krout" PW's wearing those uniforms, and they appear to be made of dark wool jean due to the heavy, thick weave in the material. As for the "we should have done this from the start", no I refer to the above diatribe, as cotton, even if readily available, does not hold up to wear and the exertions of the campaign, and would have to be replaced quicker. Do you think the government could provide even more uniforms when they were already unable to make the basic needs of many regiments? Get yourself a copy of "Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown" by Tom Arliskas, as he has obtained countless CS quartermaster reports and delves quite deeply into what was worn. http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1405 for some info on the book by the author himself. Its worth every penny.

[HCSmitty]

So your saying youve seen photos of these prisoners that im talkin about????? Who has the pictures???? Is it from NC? Do u kno where the prison camp was located??

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Yes, North Carolina, but the camp wasn't identified. Try the state of North Carolina archives, as I found three photos about two years ago while surfing for something else. One pic had two PW's doing work on what looked like a farm, and they were wearing short jackets that looked almost like RD III's, which were dark colored and rough looking material with big white letter painted on the left breast PW. Another image was some men behind a fence and the backs of the short jackets had PW painted on the back. I don't recall the third image exactly, but was pretty similiar to the second one. During the Civil War, governor Zebulon Vance, like many southern governors, zelously guarded his states supplies against the impressment of the CS national government, and as such, his state troops were amongst the best clothed and equipped of any southern state. The state was also left with "several thousand" suits of clothes at the end of the war that weren't destroyed. I haven't found any hard written evidence about where they were stored or how many there were, but it is a known fact via the state archives that whatever remained of the left over uniforms were issued to German POW's, as they were basically free clothes that the Federal or state government didn't have to pay for.

[Artyman]

So...you want to warp history to match your current modern day happenstance. That's not suprizing. I've seen this over and over again over the last 30 years or so. In fact, I've done it myself. I don't blame you...wool is expensive and money is tight. Been there, thought that.

The great artist George Woodbridge once drew up a sketch of a Hessian soldier wearing striped overalls. I still have a copy of the the print. He had no hidden adjenda in doing so, but the following season there were so many pairs of striped overalls on the American reenactors that one would have thought these were the rule rather than the exception. At that time Joann fabrics just happened to have a selection of heavy white cotton cloth in both green and blue pin stripes. The stuff was real cheap. Pretty nice fabric too. However, it would have made better coat linings or pillow ticking than pants. Regardless, when I asked several of them why they were wearing striped overalls I got pretty much the same answer..."George Woodbridge said it's OK". in 1980 the cotton was $1.50 and linen was $12.50 and flax linen was hard to find. That was the real reason.

You are asking if it's OK to use your free linen because you have it, not 'cause you really hope to alter the historical record. As has already been said, go ahead, use it. There are examples. I sorta like those early war tall militia shako's too. I have a photo of one, and I still have that free hide I was given, but shako's are not correct for the period my unit does.

You won't be well served by asking any of us if it's OK. Only your unit leadership can (should) tell you if it's OK or not. A campaigner will even have a different take on it from what a mainstreamer will think too. My mom thought all the uniforms were 'cute'. I suggest that you stick to your unit impression standards and not try to rationalize an opportunity.

Just a bit of friendly advice from an old guy:) .

Harry

[HCSmitty]

LOL i think yall are all takeing this the wrong way. Im only WANTING to wear them for a civilian impression. But i did however ask how common it would have been to see soldiers in them. I dont think i would want to wear them to a bettle cause other people have always been asked "are those carhartts?". I like jean cloth. But we will be doin a livein history at a Farm park(ill be drivein a mule hooked to a plow) this summer n by george im gona have me some linen/cotton pants. Now as for our Krouts. Ive heard it from several people. Once we were doing a liveing history at a well respected doctors home in Salisbury. Well the good doctor allowed us to have our "good" liqiour that night and the talk began. The Docs friend is the one who first told the story about Canvas/drill w/e uniforms. And my friend Mike also said that he had heard the story. And thats when the whole discussion started. Now i cant verify all this im just sayn(sorry didnt mean to start all this).

Hunter Smith

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Since you posted in Clothing, Equipment, and How To and not the Civilian Discussion, that how it was interpreted. For citizens wear, have at all the cotton and linen trousers you want, depending once again on your impression. For day attire, going into to town, as a student or an occupation that doesn't involve heavy work, cotton and linen are logical choices. Do some Google searches for antique clothing, with emphasis on middle 19th century men's wear, and you'll find several original pairs. If you think that you may eventually want to take your impression up a notch and start producing some of your own clothing, you'll find a variety of patterns and materials available to make some great stuff and trousers are one of the things to begin with. Start with drawers, perhaps a kit from Wambaugh and White first to learn some of the basic techniques, and with some practice, you can turn out some decent trousers next. You'd be surprised about how quickly you can pick up on things, even with no experience.

[FloridaConfederate]

Modern, tightly twilled cotton (like you find at the bigbox sewing centers such as Joann's in FL) is not the same as the warp and wefted cotton of the late unpleasantness.

Sooooo......to do it right, you will need cotton jean or or other period correct cotton textile.

Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida