Canteen sling question

[Slickrick214]

I wanted to pass something by you guys to see what you think. I was looking at an AC approved vendor who is selling a hot dipped tin CS canteen with adjustable sling. What I wanted to see is if an adjustable sling is period correct. Most of the slings I have seen are one long, connected piece of webbing fabric. If you want to shorten it you have to cut it down to size then re-sew the strap. This canteen has a brass two prong buckle similiar to braces of the period. The strap itself is made by the Family Heirloom Weaver company. Again I wanted to see if this is period correct and are there any references out there to adjustable buckle slings for canteens?

[Georgia Frame]

Could you post the URL on where to look at this canteen? I'm in the market for a good Tin Drum Canteen myself!

Kevin Dally

[tater]

Short answer, Yes, Yes it is PC

[TheQM]

Rick,

Most Confederate slings have some sort of mechanical closure. Actually much more common than a sewn sling. I do believe that canteens and slings were issued separately.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

I've viewed originals that were suspender webbing with suspender buckle closure, leather with harness buckles, webbing with a variety of buckles for closure, and one unique one that was made from a gum blanket and had a jappaned suspender buckle for closure. There are as many variations for CS canteen straps as there are for canteens. For some really good stuff, see Mr. Mayo's site: http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/cscanteen.html

[TheQM]

I've viewed originals that were suspender webbing with suspender buckle closure, leather with harness buckles, webbing with a variety of buckles for closure, and one unique one that was made from a gum blanket and had a jappaned suspender buckle for closure.

Ross,

The number of "home made" slings is one of the reasons I believe canteens and slings were issued separately.

[Jim Mayo]

I don't agree that CS canteens were issued without straps. Just wouldn't make sense unless the sling was issued with the canteen and the soldier allowed to install it. It would make sense that the quartermaster or the vendor would attach the sling and not leave it to the common soldier to come up with one. That is how the US canteens were equipped with slings. The two most common slings I have seen on CS tin drums are leather and cotton webbing which would have been available to the quartermaster dept but not to the common soldier unless it was issued with the canteen. Some cotton webbing is sewn together but this may have been a method of repairing a broken sling.

[TheQM]

Just wouldn't make sense unless the sling was issued with the canteen and the soldier allowed to install it.

The two most common slings I have seen on CS tin drums are leather and cotton webbing which would have been available to the quartermaster dept but not to the common soldier unless it was issued with the canteen. Some cotton webbing is sewn together but this may have been a method of repairing a broken sling.

Jim,

My area of interest is the Gardner Pattern wood canteen. I do believe the plan was to issue a sling along with the canteen and allow the soldier to install it. I just don't think that always happened. There has to be a reason the huge majority of Confederate slings have some sort of buckle or button fastener. If slings were installed at the "factory", it would have been far cheaper and easier to sew them together, especially the web and folded cloth slings.

There are just too many surviving Confederate canteens with cartridge box slings, suspender straps, and various pieces of leather sewed together to assume that every canteen came with a sling when issued.

This is just my theory and have no way to prove it one way or another.

[Slickrick214]

Jim,

My area of interest is the Gardner Pattern wood canteen. I do believe the plan was to issue a sling along with the canteen and allow the soldier to install it. I just don't think that always happened. There has to be a reason the huge majority of Confederate slings have some sort of buckle or button fastener. If slings were installed at the "factory", it would have been far cheaper and easier to sew them together, especially the web and folded cloth slings.

There are just too many surviving Confederate canteens with cartridge box slings, suspender straps, and various pieces of leather sewed together to assume that every canteen came with a sling when issued.

This is just my theory and have no way to prove it one way or another.

Could it be that the canteens with cartridge box slings, suspender straps, and various pieces of leather sewed together might be replacements for the originals? I'm sure over time the original slings would rip or wear out. Then maybe the men got whatever they could like a suspender strap or piece of canvas webbing, tied it together and made a makeshift sling.

[Slickrick214]

I can't go back and edit my post now but I also wanted to ask what the difference was between hot dipped tin and regular tin. You see both out there in the re-enacting world. You see both regular tin plates, mess pans and canteens and ones that are hot dipped. So what is the difference and what technique was most popular in the late 19th century?

[dugel]

http://www.geocities.com/madisontin/Tinplate.html

Try this for the basics of tinplate manufacturing.

Pat Cunningham

[TheQM]

Could it be that the canteens with cartridge box slings, suspender straps, and various pieces of leather sewed together might be replacements for the originals? I'm sure over time the original slings would rip or wear out. Then maybe the men got whatever they could like a suspender strap or piece of canvas webbing, tied it together and made a makeshift sling.

Rick,

Yep, that may well be very true. As I said, it is just my theory that canteen and canteen straps were supposed to be issued together for the soldier to attach.

In regard to the Gardner Pattern canteens, unlike reenactors, a lot of Confederate soldiers weren't real fond of their wood canteens. They did their best to replace them as soon as possible. Because of the canteen's shape, I don't see a lot of slings wearing out during the life of the canteens I made. (They don't get cut by the sling keepers the way Federal canteen slings do.)

Again, this is all theory. Next week we'll talk about soldiers knocking out the spouts on their Gardner Pattern canteens! :)

[Bill_Cross]

What is the difference was between hot dipped tin and regular tin.
John Peterson of Otter Creek Tinware once explained to me that most hot-dipped tin is just ordinary steel items that have been dipped & coated in molten tin. According to John, this was NOT the way goods were manufacturered back then. Instead sheets of dipped tin were fabricated into goods for manufacture, which is why the seams and attachment points are not coated on original canteens, etc. But reenactors wanting "authentic" products demanded a solution and one was found: molten tin baths.

John uses sheet tin that has been electroplated and actually is closer to the original tin than ordinary steel that has been coated in this way. The electroplating apparently reproduces the wavy tin look we crave without the extemely toxic process required for the original.

That was several years ago. I don't know if there are any current artisans reproducing period tin sheeting. John apparently is not currently working on his superb tin creations (http://www.ottertin.com/).

[Green Mountain Boy]

Thank you for the kind words, Bill.

Yes, I am currently not taking orders from new customers. I got tired of some customers who could not understand that I do not run a sweat shop that employs immigrant children :mrgreen:

The modern dipped tin controversy goes round and round with strong partisans on all sides. I continue to be very happy with the electrically plated tin I have on hand and I have secured a supply of recently produced dipped tin from a commercial manufacturere that is quite good IMHO. In addition, and for comparison, I have a small quantity of actual period dipped tin that came out of the back corner of an old shop. I have used that period tinplate for personal projects but have no plans to ever sell it.

If someone wants to see what period dipped tin looks like, my advice is to find some period tinware that has seen light use and to look at the finish. Often times the inside of caps on items like tea caddies (cannisters) are near pristine. Sadly it is difficult to capture this well with a scan or online image.

[Trimmings]

Translate theory into researching actual period practice by examining CS returns whereby the canteens and canteen slings are listed as separate items. This is by no means an absolute, but it is common in surviving documents.

The CS troops didn't have to knock out the wooden spouts. The turned wood spout got wet, split, and then fell out of the canteen body. This is also common enough with reproduction canteens where the spout's inside diameter is large enough to match the originals.