What color to paint tent poles?

[Evil Dog]

First off, I am VERY NEW to this having spent most of my re-enacting time in the Colonial times (1770's) or Fur Trade era (pre-1840's). Just starting to do some limited Civil War events. My question is what color to paint the poles on my A-frame tent... or to paint them at all? I am thinking either the light Federal blue (as in the trousers) or a dark green (as in a cannon carriage). Any suggestions? Thanks... and be kind.

[Guy Gane III]

In my opinion, I'd leave them natural.

[sbl]

The QM of my outfit painted all unit's poles for the wall tents and company flys the same drab green as a gun carriage or an ammunition box. Seemed to work as a water proofing and gave a "uniform" appearance to the gear. I used to do British Rev-War and our tentage was pretty elaborate too.

[50th VA Corporal]

Hmmm....

I just put on a couple of coats of McClosky's pine tinted water seal to make mine look like old wood.... ....but I'd rather sleep in the shelter half tent and not have to worry about such things anymore.

Jas. T. Lemon
50th VA Corporal

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

What I would like to see is a true period reference to this query, as there seems to be no period references or originals to go by. The educated masses seem to go with the dark olive green as mentioned above due to the fact that the earliest surviving tent poles from the Spanish American War all the way to this era have been painted that shade of green, however there are references to poles being painted light blue during the 1830's and 40's. I wonder when the true transition (if there was one) was.

[RJSamp]

What I would like to see is a true period reference to this query, as there seems to be no period references or originals to go by. The educated masses seem to go with the dark olive green as mentioned above due to the fact that the earliest surviving tent poles from the Spanish American War all the way to this era have been painted that shade of green, however there are references to poles being painted light blue during the 1830's and 40's. I wonder when the true transition (if there was one) was.

Too me it's pretty simple.....if they painted them at all it would have been with readily available paint......gun carriage and wagon spoke green.

Most of the pictures you see they are natural.....either saw cut and not sanded......or BARK still on them....

[Evil Dog]

Too me it's pretty simple.....if they painted them at all it would have been with readily available paint......gun carriage and wagon spoke green.

Now that makes a lot of sense to me... especially since I still have half a quart of gun carriage paint left. Still have to repaint the wheels, but if there is enough left after that the tent poles will be next.

Hmm... that Federal light blue sure does look pretty though.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

[Busterbuttonboy]

While this comment is based soley upon the foggy late night memory jog...
I would assume (yes breaking the rules of documentation) as field craft often dictates that aside from winter or semi perminent quarters that poles are difficult to carry. Having moved both and a fly and shelter halves (yes at different times) on my back, I can safely say it was easiest to recut branches or deadfall to need. I would assume that they were not often painted, and when done so, it was out of readily available materials not subjet to the QMers count.

Drew Gruber

Ps- In short, id leave them natural- even with bark as Guy suggested.

[FloridaConfederate]

Too me it's pretty simple.....if they painted them at all it would have been with readily available paint......gun carriage and wagon spoke green.

I learned from viewing an original US Army Wagon and speaking to Ranger Jim Ogden at the Federal Mounted Artillery Living History at Chickamauga NMP this year that Federal wagons were blue with red wheels. I have a pic of the park's original wagon at home I will post.

[Hoosier49er]

The poles would have been carried on wagons along with the tents and rest of the baggage. It was my understanding that all army issue tent poles were painted olive, just like other wooden army equipment. (At least in the Federal army). This helped to somewhat water-proof them and made them last longer. Hope this helped.

[Pvt Schnapps]

I agree with Ross -- it would be nice to see an actual source.

The suggestion to use what paint was available might not really apply to materiel manufactured by private contractors or at depots some distance from the front.

While the ordnance department painted its vehicles an olive color, the quartermaster department, which procured tents, also procured wagons, which were painted blue and red. So if you had to chose a color, blue would seem more appropriate, given who provided the tents.

However, right now I know of no reason to paint tent poles at all.

There's an excellent article on the war time tent industry at:
http://es.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/2/2/297.pdf

It lists all sorts of contractors, but somehow the subject of the color of the poles never comes up. The big job was finding fabric and someone to put it together.

I think you could do worse than follow the suggestion to make "improvised" poles and leave them natural.

[Blair]

Evil Dog,

Should you deside to paint your poles, I would assume this would be on finished lumber, here are the basic colors you can use if your mixing your own paint. This is based off a formula the NPS came up with from paint chips recovered from known cannon positions in various forts.
Black, yellow and white. Mixed in various percentages will give you a wild range of shades of olive green.
The actual formulas are given in proper portions for painting a given gun carrage based on the size.
The white color came from the use of white lead or lead oxide. It is very authentic and well documented in most paints.
Should you wish to keep your poles natural but still want to protect them from the eliments, I would suggest boiled linseed oil and turpentine.
Blair Taylor

[Jim Mayo]

May want to verify you have the correct poles to put the paint on. Seems that I read somewhere that tent poles (wall tent or wedge tent, can't remember) were six sided or round. I have seen dug pole straps which were round and were used to keep the poles from splitting. Take a look at the LOC pictures and try and find one that shows tent poles.

I use small saplings for wedge tent poles.

[Scooby_308]

Jim,

RJ Samp posted on this some years ago with photos. I do not recall if it was this forum or not. I believe it was originally about the proper use of tent flies, but there was info on pole shapes.

I think...anyone, anyone, RJ?

[RJSamp]

I learned from viewing an original US Army Wagon and speaking to Ranger Jim Ogden at the Federal Mounted Artillery Living History at Chickamauga NMP this year that Federal wagons were blue with red wheels. I have a pic of the park's original wagon at home I will post.

Thanks for the correction! Just goes to show you how many wagons I've seen.....actually I'm color anomolous so it wouldn't even register with my brain.

So a blue wagon box and red spokes and wheel.

got it!

[RJSamp]

Jim,

RJ Samp posted on this some years ago with photos. I do not recall if it was this forum or not. I believe it was originally about the proper use of tent flies, but there was info on pole shapes.

I think...anyone, anyone, RJ?

natural, mostly with bark. the pictures were from a way off however...tough to see the poles especially with the doors tied shut.

recall that many of the flies/wall tents had side rails (like a Western horizontal hitching 'post') that were unfinished/bark logs.

looks like it's time to do some empirical research.....sounds like a winter project....mine are 8 sided (4 angle cuts across the vertices of a 4x4, thank god for table saws), olive drab, purchased from an Eastern Reenactor.

[FloridaConfederate]

Thanks for the correction! Just goes to show you how many wagons I've seen.....actually I'm color anomolous so it wouldn't even register with my brain.

So a blue wagon box and red spokes and wheel.

got it!


Not a correction at all my pouty-lipped pard,

Battery Wagons / Forges and their wheels were green as El Schnapperdor pointed out...

Chickamauga NMP also has the only remaining battery forge in the world housed in their Visitor's Center..

[FloridaConfederate]

From the event

Army wagon, forge and battery wagon
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii312/floridaconfederate/P1020512.jpg

Army Wagon

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii312/floridaconfederate/P1020489.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii312/floridaconfederate/batterywagon.jpg

[RJSamp]

Thanks for the pics! Awesome!

Pouty-Lipped? Must have been trying to rest the chops after sounding the bugle......

[FloridaConfederate]

Lee White sometimes comes on here..so he can clarify cause after two days with Ranger Jim Ogden you are on Civil War fact and history overload...but

I think Jim said Chickamauga NMP staff disassembled that particular Army Wagon to find unfaded paint spots to match the colors from and settle the ongoing dispute of the actual shades ??????

[Evil Dog]

Hmm.... maybe olive green for the ridge pole and Federal light blue for the uprights !!! Since I am primarily with an Artillery unit there is always something be be said for red. Or, maybe forget the tent and stay in a motel?..... nah.

[billwatson2]

The advantage of using a sapling for all of this is that it's plausible as a replacement for issued poles "gone missing" and the paint becomes irrelevant. Although it would be nice to know if they were supposed to be a particular color, just because it would be nice to know.

[Pvt Schnapps]

The advantage of using a sapling for all of this is that it's plausible as a replacement for issued poles "gone missing" and the paint becomes irrelevant. Although it would be nice to know if they were supposed to be a particular color, just because it would be nice to know.

Not only could the poles have gone missing -- they might never have been issued at all.

I say that because, looking through lists of QM contracts for 1861 and 1864, it appears that poles, pegs, and tents were all contracted for separately. This would explain why the article I mentioned earlier, dealing with tents, had nothing to say about the accompanying hardware.

It also appears, from a report in the OR, Series III, Volume 5 (my favorite :) ), p. 272, that the number of tents and poles procured didn't necessarily match up. According to this report, in the fiscal year ending June 30, 1865 the army acquired 6,788 hospital tents, but only 6,259 hospital tent poles. It also procured 8,412 wall tents, but only 6,586 wall tent poles. On the other hand, for 1,412 common tents it procured 3,236 common tent poles.

I admit to not trying to look up procurements in previous years or stock on hand at the depots, but prior excursions through the ORs lead me to suspect that this kind of mismatch wasn't a fluke.

[Blair]

M A Schaffner,

Perhapes the reason for the mismatch in tentage componates is due to the need to replace the tent fabric more often than the hardwear?
Not so much that the hardwear was not issued, but simply out lasted the fabric. Just a thought on my part.
Blair Taylor

[Pvt Schnapps]

M A Schaffner,

Perhapes the reason for the mismatch in tentage componates is due to the need to replace the tent fabric more often than the hardwear?
Not so much that the hardwear was not issued, but simply out lasted the fabric. Just a thought on my part.
Blair Taylor

That's plausible, especially if the tent poles were painted for protection. ;)

But it's also probably impossible to answer. Elsewhere in the same volume (p. 286) we see that the army bought a total of about a quarter million common tents and 2.2 million tents d'abri, but unfortunately that chart gives no count of tent poles. We also can't tell the number of tents worn out as opposed to those lost, destroyed by accident, stolen, or abandoned to the enemy.

The tents appeared to be fairly sturdy. The article I cited earlier states that of the total procured, about a fifth of the common tents and over a third of the shelter tents were in storage at the end of the war, which indicates that the army wasn't running through them all that quickly (there were about a million men in service in 1865 -- most not in the field, but enough to require a big chunk of the one and a half million dog tents made, issued, and campaigned in over the previous three years).

There was also a repair shop for tents in Washington City, which would seem to further indicate that some at least (probably the larger ones) stood up well enough to be worth fixing up.

One thing we can tell from the OR tables and contracts is that the army separately purchased tents and poles at varying rates from many suppliers, creating a situation where it seems pretty unlikely that they always had matching quantities on hand in all the locations where they were required.

The photos on the LOC site are interesting, though not definitive. Search for "tents" and you get a lot of finished poles, when you can see them, some of which are apparently hexagonal or octagonal. But you also see some unfinished ones.

Here, for example, are the adjutant and first sergeants of the 22nd NYSM in 1862:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/I?ils:68:./temp/~pp_EYj1::displayType=1:m856sd=cph:m856sf=3b36999: @@@

And here are surgeons of the 9th Corps at Petersburg in 1864:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/I?ils:74:./temp/~pp_EYj1::displayType=1:m856sd=cph:m856sf=3b38695: @@@

Interesting subject.

[Blair]

Good images.
Just for an interesting contrast of what it might have been like for the rank and file in a simi perminate field camp, do a search on this forum for "Zouave Cresent-Star pin". Shermans_Neckties posted an image of a wonded Zouave and another soldier. What is interesting is in the background and the suroundings of these two (posed?) individuals.
Not much in the way of finished lumber used in these quarters. Not much in the way of organized Company streets that I can see either.
Blair Taylor

[RJSamp]

Bark on the gabled front porch fly pole:
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/03600/03662v.jpg

Octagon painted for the General and the President:
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/04300/04351v.jpg

[Scooby_308]

Octagon painted for the General and the President:
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/04300/04351v.jpg
I think you hit the nail on the head "Octagon painted for the General and the President". I think the "fancy" pole may be for officers (higher ups), while the field expedient barked ones were for those field grade sods.

[Pvt Schnapps]

I think you hit the nail on the head "Octagon painted for the General and the President". I think the "fancy" pole may be for officers (higher ups), while the field expedient barked ones were for those field grade sods.

I would hesitate to generalize. Anyone who has a wall tent in 1864 has sufficient authority to get poles -- it's probably more a matter of supply or convenience, especially if you need an additional one for the "front porch." I would also hesitate to call the McClellan pole painted. It sort of looks that way, but it could just as easily be sanded and oiled.

The battle flag is a neat decorating touch, though.

[TheQM]

In the semi-modern Army, (Prior to 1999) tent poles, pegs, and tents were all different line items on the TO&E (Table of Organization & Equipment) and could be ordered separately. Except for length, the specs for wooden tent poles and pegs didn't change much during the past 130 years. They came new from the depots unpainted. When I was involved with this stuff, the poles lasted longer than the canvas, but we were always ordering more pegs.

It makes perfect sense that the pole holding up the fly, being used as a porch, was home made. Flys were not designed to be used that way, so supports would have had to be improvised.

[FloridaConfederate]

Period tent pole references:

Lynchburg Republican
from Gen. Lee's camp, at Meadow Bluff, Va
Sept. 27 1862:

About 10 o'clock this morning, one of the most violent gales swept over us that has ever been known in these mountains. It lasted until night, and, together with the torrents of rain which accompanied it, made the day a most terrible one. The whole earth became a running sheet of water. Bridges were washed away, roads torn to pieces, and the tents of our men dashed to the earth. The rain washed violently into our quarters, and when night came on many of us had to put fence rails under our beds to keep them from the water and mud. My young friend, Capt. W., and myself kept ourselves tolerably dry by standing props to our tent poles during the height of the storm, thus preventing the hurricane from stripping us of our frail tenement.

Shelter half poles..
The innovation to which I allude is in the size and character of the camp tent. He has reduced it to a size which will accommodate but four men. One end of it he leaves entirely open. Before the open end he builds a camp fire, and that makes a small tent more comfortable in the coldest winter than the large tents are in autumn or spring. One mule can carry thirty of these tents, (enough for two companies.) Baggage wagons in his regiment are therefore an obsolete idea; or, to use his nervous expression, an "exploded humbug." This insures expedition without a sacrifice of comfort, and such has been the force with which the utility of this style of tent has impressed the military minds that have investigated its merits, that Gen. Floyd, among others has thrown aside his huge amphitheatre and adopted the modest and comfortable little tabernacle, for which the army are indebted to Col. Croghan. In order, therefore, to enable any regiment in the Confederate service that may feel an inclination to render themselves as comfortable as possible, by adopting the Croghan tent, I will describe it:
In the first place, it is triangular shaped, four feet high, eight feet case, and seven feet deep. The tent poles are two feet long, fitting into each other, fitted together, having a nail in the top, is passed through an eye-let hole at the top of each end of the tent, and a cord fastened in the ground at the rear of the tent is passed through the back of the tent at the top. There it is twisted around the nail on the rear pole, and then it is passed to the front pole and twisted around the nail on this pole, from whence it is passed to the ground and fastened to a peg. This cord is the ridge pole. Col. Ransom has attached to his regiment forty baggage wagons, attached to each one of which are four horses, making one hundred and sixty horses in his transportation service; whereas five mules are altogether sufficient for the transportation of Croghan tents enough for the same regiment; and the soldiers are bound to enjoy more comfort and sufferless in the Croghan tent than they do in the tent now in use in our army, and the transportation of which is so very expensive Col. Croghan has also, by an alteration of the ordinary cort saddle into a pack saddle made it feasible for one mule to transport 300 pounds of provisions. Thus you perceive this regiment is costing the Government less than perhaps any one company in any other cavalry regiment in the service, and are for forced marches and surprise expeditions the most available arm of the Confederate service.--When they move, their baggage mules can move. They do not have to wait, as other cavalry regiments do, for baggage wagons.--They do not have to take, as other cavalry regiments often do, the pitiless pelting of the midnight storm, for they can always have their tents with them.


The Daily Dispatch: September 4, 1862.

A Rich Haul in the Chesapeake.
On Friday night last a steamer, having some 12 or 15 loaded barges in tow, passed up the bay from Fortress Monroe in a heavy gale, and upon reaching a point opposite the counties of Matthews and Middlesex, seven of the barges broke from the tow lines and were dashed ashore. The citizens next morning took possession of them, and captured nine Yankees who were thrown with them on the shore, each of whom was armed with a musket, and after the contents of the boats were secured, they were marched into a safer locality by Lieut. Fitzhugh, of the Matthews cavalry.

One of the barges contained one hundred and thirty 13 inch shells, 100 Enfield rifles, 5,000 knapsacks, and other articles. Two others were loaded with wagons and harness. Another contained numerous boxes of axes and engine tools, overcoats, baggage, &c. Others contained tents and tent poles, eighteen boxes of haversack, (about 2,800 in each,) and all sorts of army equipments. The prisoners, while in the custody of Lieut. Fitzhugh, were under the belief that a large force of "rebels" were in the vicinity, and submitted docilely. They were tolled in admirably by the astute Lieutenant

CJ Rideout

[GrumpyDave]

Fucia is so nice.;)

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

One thing about the procurement of poles that we may not be thinking about is the likelihood that all tents procured from the various contractors and depots may have been the correct or same size. Cotton duck and drill shrinks at different rates, makers may or may not have been able to conform to the directives for size, etc. This was a big problem with the shelter tents as noted in Gaede's book, as soldiers often had to go around trading halves or finding others in the company with the same sized half to button together. If shelter halves were hard to find the same size, a relatively easy piece of equipment to manufacture, imagine how hard it would be to make a common tent or wall tent to make the same specs everytime. This may also account for the discrepancies in the number of poles ordered vs. the number of tents.

[RJSamp]

This may also account for the discrepancies in the number of poles ordered vs. the number of tents.

1 Tent per 2-3 poles depending on what a ridge pole is inventoried as.... This is the number 1 reason why the number of poles ordered would be different than the number of tents.....DOH.

From an inventory/logistics standpoint....it would be a lot easier to procure a couple of hundred poles than it would be to procure cotton drill with hand stitched button/grommet/tie backs..... you could probably get tent poles relatively locally.....

[TheQM]

From an inventory/logistics standpoint....it would be a lot easier to procure a couple of hundred poles than it would be to procure cotton drill with hand stitched button/grommet/tie backs..... you could probably get tent poles relatively locally.....

RJ,

But, they wouldn't be anything like what the QM specs called for.

Bill

[Pvt Schnapps]

1 Tent per 2-3 poles depending on what a ridge pole is inventoried as.... This is the number 1 reason why the number of poles ordered would be different than the number of tents.....DOH.

From an inventory/logistics standpoint....it would be a lot easier to procure a couple of hundred poles than it would be to procure cotton drill with hand stitched button/grommet/tie backs..... you could probably get tent poles relatively locally.....

But in that case we would expect to find more poles than tents rather than the other way around, as with wall tents in 1865.

From what I've seen in lists of QM contracts, tent poles are procured like everything else, through advertised contracts by AQMs in cities like New York, Philadelphia, & Cincinnati. "Local" procurement is probably best represented by those in the photos that still have the bark on.

Ross, I think that's a good point about irregularity. Mass production doesn't necessarily mean industrial production, which in turn doesn't necessarily mean uniformity.

Grumpy, the proper color for ordnance tents is chartreuse. Fuschia is for the Baloon Corps.

[Scooby_308]

I would hesitate to generalize. Anyone who has a wall tent in 1864 has sufficient authority to get poles -- it's probably more a matter of supply or convenience, especially if you need an additional one for the "front porch." I would also hesitate to call the McClellan pole painted. It sort of looks that way, but it could just as easily be sanded and oiled.

The battle flag is a neat decorating touch, though.
What I meant is that while poles would be available, front line troops would find it easier to cut their own as opposed to hauling them. Also, from my Army days, I know it is a heck of a lot easier to make field expedient stuff as opposed to waiting for the QM to send out the replacement.

As far as the two pictures, McClellan, no doubt, wanted to have a nice purdy camp for the CiC to visit (although the field expedient coat/quilt/drying rack in the back looks like branches). General officers, in the rear with the gear (where tent poles are readily available).

[flattop32355]

As far as the two pictures, McClellan, no doubt, wanted to have a nice purdy camp for the CiC to visit...

Judging from some of his letters, I'd be willling to bet that McClellan wanted the spit and polish for hissown self, and just wanted Lincoln to go away and leave him alone.

[Hoosier49er]

I just found a reference to one Colonel D. H. Vinton, who was the Inspector General for the New York clothing and exchange depot in 1863. He had stated that he had an entourage of 21 clerks. One of these clerks (unfortunately not named) was "inspector of tent poles and other wood items". I've yet to find any, but there has to be a report from this man or others like him floating around some where. Still searching the net for more.
The answer has to be out there somewhere...

[billwatson2]

Somewhere, in the National Archives or some obscure storage area, there's a report filed by this guy complaining the paint is the wrong color on a batch of tent poles. Got to be. And with any luck it will say what the RIGHT color is.

It will be right next to the Ark of the Covenant. :-)

[RJSamp]

Somewhere, in the National Archives or some obscure storage area, there's a report filed by this guy complaining the paint is the wrong color on a batch of tent poles. Got to be. And with any luck it will say what the RIGHT color is.

It will be right next to the Ark of the Covenant. :-)

8ish years ago a diligent researcher (Marc Storch) was going through a 'box' of miscellaneous WI Military orders from the American Civil War.... low and behold but he discovered an August 1863 order for the Division that the Iron Brigade was in.....calling for the use of the following three bugle prelude calls for I Corps, I Division., I/I/1st Brigade (Iron Brigade), and 2nd Brigade (was Cutler's at GBurg)......and there was the music itself for all three calls. So we have three original prelude calls from the ACW to add to Dan Butterfield and a few others we know....

So Bill, you are correct.....somewhere in a diary a soldier will complain about getting splinters from the rough cut unpainted poles as compared to the fushia painted poles they had the winter before.....

[Hoosier49er]

Anyone live in the Jacksonville, Florida area? The excavated artifacts from the Union steamship Maple Leaf are located in the Museum of Science and History there. This ship was quicky sunk by a Confederate torpedo in April of 1864. There were over 300 artifacts recovered. The ship was burried in mud, and very well preserved. Among the artifacts stored in this museum are supposed to be intact tent and ridge poles. There were even INTACT shelter halves recovered. There were no pictures of them on their web-site, so I've sent an Email to the curator asking for more information about them. If someone lived nearby, maybe we could get some specs, and or pictures of them...

[Regular DOC]

Here are a couple from the medical side of the house.

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/036.jpg

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/482.jpg

Not the best photos for telling but thought I would include them.

I also throw these up to wonder what they would have painted litters if they did at all.

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/037.jpg

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/322.jpg

http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/035.jpg

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Anyone live in the Jacksonville, Florida area? The excavated artifacts from the Union steamship Maple Leaf are located in the Museum of Science and History there. This ship was quicky sunk by a Confederate torpedo in April of 1864. There were over 300 artifacts recovered. The ship was burried in mud, and very well preserved. Among the artifacts stored in this museum are supposed to be intact tent and ridge poles. There were even INTACT shelter halves recovered. There were no pictures of them on their web-site, so I've sent an Email to the curator asking for more information about them. If someone lived nearby, maybe we could get some specs, and or pictures of them...
I've been there several times and looked first hand at some great items including shelter halves and gum blankets, but the tent poles weren't on any list of items I'd seen from them. I'll have to check back in with them and see what they have. Thanks for the heads-up.

[flattop32355]

I've been there several times and looked first hand at some great items including shelter halves and gum blankets, but the tent poles weren't on any list of items I'd seen from them. I'll have to check back in with them and see what they have. Thanks for the heads-up.

Let us all know what you find out.