How to "pigeon breast" a fat guy?

[Artyman]

I got to thinking, after reading some interesting details about an original frock coat, about the fashion and tailoring of the CW period following a "pigeon breasted" design. The use of "darts", stiffeners, and the cut of the panels were obviously intended to pull in the belly and push out the chest. Sorta like my class A's were in the army. Sack coats were pretty straight but shell jackets and frocks were for thinner waists.

This being the case, what did guys who were 'almost' able to fit these coats do? Were there corsets for men? I've seen them in the movies...but were there really any?

Not that I'd wear one....couldn't find a pard to pull in the strings for me if I wanted to! Eventually he'd tell someone.

Harry

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

There were indeed male corsets marketed during the CW period, as evidenced by several advertisements in newspapers such as "Harpers Weekly" and "Leslies Illustrated". I'm going to venture to guess, however, that the use for such contraptions was limited for those of martial service. It seems to me by looking at the ads for these devices that they were being marketed to citizens for the reasons you mention, to fit into the fashion of day (pun intended). I think most of us who study the CW period forget that fashion back then wasn't really too different from that of today - clothes came in many styles and colors, and people made efforts to conform to society's image of what they should look like. I would also throw out there that a man's corset probably didn't sell too well in some parts of the country due to the image that an overweight person was usually considered prosperous since they could afford to eat. This was an image that was viewed in some rural areas in particular, due to the fact that the majority of the citizens had alot of strenuous outdoor work.

[Rob Weaver]

My goodness, that padding in the dress coat certainly does teach you where to stow your lunch, doesn't it?

[tompritchett]

I would also throw out there that a man's corset probably didn't sell too well in some parts of the country due to the image that an overweight person was usually considered prosperous since they could afford to eat. This was an image that was viewed in some rural areas in particular, due to the fact that the majority of the citizens had alot of strenuous outdoor work.

More important at least for the 18th century in Europe was that an over weight person was considered prosperous because he or she did not have to do manual labor. I am not sure whether or not that idea cared over to America and into the 19th Century.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

As with a military sizing system that was based on standard sizes and not paying attention to a man's actual size needs in a wear as is, alter, or trade off to another man for a more appropriate size...

In brief and to over-generalize...

One got by.

However, if one shifts over to the more wealthy or the civilian who could afford custom-made and tailored garments (with possibly talented individuals and professional tailors maybe in the ranks available for hire when and where time, access, and money permitted so noted) things can change.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/BenButler.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CWlargeofficer.jpg

It can be hard to "pigeon breast" an "inverted light bulb" or "pear" body-shape.

CHS

[FloridaConfederate]

From: Si Klegg and His Pard

During the afternoon Company Q was ordered to fall in and the orderly marched it up to the quartermaster's. Si wondered what they were going to get this time. “Now men git into them coats” said the orderly. Them coats were the regulation dress coats the only thing necessary to complete their wardrobes. The dress coat was another of the delusions of the war. It was a close tight fitting garment with an impressive row of brass buttons extending up to the chin and a stiff standing collar that rasped the ears save when an unusually long neck lifted those appendages to a safe height. The sleeves were small and left little freedom of motion to the arms. This coat as its name indicates was to be worn on state occasions. In the early part of the war it was considered as indispensable at dress parade inspection or review as a clawhammer coat at a swell dinner. Of course when worn every button must be in its button hole. A company looked as stiff as a row of statues. When the mercury was up in the nineties it was a terrible sweat box. Not a breath of air could reach the sweltering body. When the hot work of the war came the dress coat had to go except among the troops which were permanently stationed at posts in the rear . On a shelter tent campaign inspections and reviews were unheard of and the soldiers were wise enough to follow the injunction given the by the apostles “to provide neither two coats” the over coat being excepted. For all ordinary wear the blouse was the garment that filled the bill. On the first hard march the dress coats disappeared rapidly. They were recklessly flung away to lighten knapsacks and ease aching shoulders or were traded off to the negroes for chickens and other eatables

But Si thought it was a splendid thing He succeeded in getting one with about the right length of sleeve but owing to his tendency to corpulence it was a very tight squeeze to get it buttoned. When he had accomplished it he felt as if he had a sheet iron coat riveted around him. His eye followed down the row of shining buttons with its graceful swell and the blue corded seams and he thought it was the nicest coat he had ever seen. He only lacked the shoulder straps to look like an officer.

[Artyman]

Much as I hate to admit it, Ben Butler was a relative on my mom's side of the family. The sisters all eventually looked just like him.

Harry

[tompritchett]

As with a military sizing system that was based on standard sizes and not paying attention to a man's actual size needs in a wear as is, alter, or trade off to another man for a more appropriate size...

It should also be noted that officers were given an uniform allowance from which they were expected to purchase their own uniforms rather than having their uniforms issued to them. Of course they did have the option of purchasing an issue coat from the quartermaster but it is my understanding that this practice did not become semi common until about mid-war on.

[Artyman]

What started me to think about this, besides reading the article, was a photo I saw on a unit website (will remain nameless to protect the innocent) of a photo of a SC guy who had his Richmond Depot type II made longer to cover his stomach while firing his rifle. He said as much in the pic credits. That's not a bad idea, it protects innocent spectators from seeing his mid sections during a battle, but really that even well fed confederates were probably pretty thin.

Maybe that will be a New Years Resolution foe me this year....lose two inches off my waist. Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen!

Harry

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CWIngalls.jpg

CHS

[reb64]

[QUOTE=Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]Hallo!

Nice photos. I am wondering if these coats were altered and the padding never put in or done away with.

[Phil]

The "pigeon breast" effect comes from cutting the front of the coat or jacket in a curve rather than a straight line. I think we've established there were fat guys back then, and they did wear coats. They were also cut with a curve in the front, just not as pronounced.

Padding in the chest area could help in making up the difference between the chest and belly to achieve a more flattering appearance.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

My point was not to show that there were heavier people, but rather that:

"It can be hard to "pigeon breast" an "inverted light bulb" or "pear" body-shape."

Without the body morphology or shape that allows it, IMHO, the cut of the coat or a padded chest would not easily produce the desired fashion effect.

(Much in the same way modern CAS (Cowboy Action Shooters) with the same body shape often have a problem keeping a heavy revolver and loaded gun belt (or two) from falling down to their thighs or knees...)

CHS

[Artyman]

Now that would be a sight you wouldn't see on a Midway USA show!

Harry