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View Full Version : If you want change, make it happen



Bill_Cross
07-13-2006, 11:18 AM
It's easy to complain about events. Fixing existing ones is next to impossible because of entrenched interests like money, cronyism, etc.

Easier is creating something from scratch. But the problem is land: you could put on a better Gettysburg event, but the locals are not buying and there is no land.

So what's a feller to do?

Some of you who might mess in your drawers if asked to organize an event can do a lot more than you might realize:

1.) talk to a local landowner who knows you about letting his property be used for a QUALITY Civil War event (not yahoos with guns playing soldier);

2.) scout locations where an authentic event could be held. Even if you don't know any local landowners, if we can identify some quality ground, we might be able to get someone local to smooth things over. Doing an event on the original ground is getting almost impossible. Either the NPS has the land (reenactment unfriendly), or development is gobbling it up (try putting "Seven Pines" on the original ground).

See? It's not as hard as you think. There are numerous groups with track records for putting on quality events. But getting land permissions is increasingly hard, especially for outsiders. Here's your chance to step up and make a difference.

[Editted to remove profanity THP]

Trimmings
07-13-2006, 11:37 AM
Either the NPS has the land (reenactment unfriendly), or development is gobbling it up (try putting "Seven Pines" on the original ground).

Seven Pines is modern day Sandston. Unless you were looking for land 50 years ago, it should come as no suprise that it is developed. It was gobbled up partly before WW2, but mostly in the post WW2 housing boom, and King's School is under a runway of Richmond International Airport. The defenses to the west were developed in the early 1950s also thanks to the GI Bill, and the land were Huger made his ill fated right turn was developed in the middle 1980s. Henrico County has a nearby park that is used for reenactments. Ever inquire about that? The nearby 2,400 acre Elko Tract on Portugee Road had a semiconductor plant built on it in 1996. That land may be out of reach. Reenacting a battle on property where it did not take place may be a discussion for a future thread, too.

Also, please mind your use of profanity. It is unbecoming of a crusader.

Ray Prosten

MStuart
07-13-2006, 12:01 PM
Also, please mind your use of profanity.

There's not a lot of that these days, seems like. Lot's of profanity getting by since this new contraption doesn't seem to have a filter. Not that we should have to resort to needing one, if'n ya know what I mean. I'm sure the ladies appreciate some gutter talk, don't you?

Mark

Bill_Cross
07-13-2006, 12:18 PM
Also, please mind your use of profanity. It is unbecoming of a crusader.
Rags was Crusader Rabbit's sidekick. I'm no more than a sideshow now, no crusader. But in New Jersey, we don't mind our profanity, it's a badge of honor. I'll leave it to the filter if I slip up.

No, I have not tried Henrico Park. Had a bad experience with another VA county park structure trying to set up a reenactment of New Market Heights. Bureaucrats are as averse to risk as some Internet trolls are averse to work (or real life or actually taking the field). But thanks for the information about the Seven Pines ground and what's become of it. Gobbling or gobbled, it's still bad news for reenactments.

I've long ago stopped worrying about holding events other than LHs or marches on original ground. There are some exceptions: "Pickett's Mill 2001" for one; we climbed Sittlington Hill at the last McDowell, and it was an awesome honor in both cases. I think it's more important to offer a quality, historical experience. No one who attended "War on the James" had any issues with the fact it was held on ground several miles from the original. The ground for "Into the Wilderness" was certainly believable as Wilderness. Sometimes the original ground is too built-up to offer a realistic experience.

Your mileage may vary. What events have you attended? I don't recall seeing the Ray Prosten name on any lists of participants.

MStuart
07-13-2006, 12:24 PM
But in New Jersey, we don't mind our profanity, it's a badge of honor. I'll leave it to the filter if I slip up.

That's funny, I've got umpteen years working the streets as a police officer and find a way to watch my language when I'm not on them. It might be normal in Jersey around women and kids, but I doubt it is here.

Mark

dustyswb
07-13-2006, 12:25 PM
I don't think that "original" ground is as important as ground that has some of the same topographical features.

Holding a Devil's Den scenario in an open field is not good.

Holding a Devil's Den battle at Devil's Den is impossible

Holding a Devil's Den battle in PA/WV on land that is rocky in nature is a good compromise.

Bill_Cross
07-13-2006, 12:26 PM
That's funny, I've got umpteen years working the streets as a police officer and find a way to watch my language when I'm not on them. It might be normal in Jersey around women and kids, but iI doubt it is here.
One more instance of my perfidy. You're a better man than I.

MStuart
07-13-2006, 12:39 PM
In this particular instance, I may be.

Mark

indguard
07-13-2006, 12:43 PM
Like I said in another thread. You want it done YOUR way, go MAKE it happen.

Personally, I ignore the whinning of every "hardkewel"* on this board who hasn't created and run his own event or at the very least really tried to help any event improve.

I have run many, many events over the years and it is NOT an easy thing to do. But, you CAN make a difference even at events that are "farby". It just takes stepping up to the plate, it takes effort. I have chaged events that were nothing but "farby" in the past to a passable event with the help of like minded compatriots.

But it is far esier to sit behind a computer screen and snipe at people. There is an entire weboard dedicated to such "hardkewel"*, do-nothings called the OhThey'refullaBullcrap board. Want to whine but offer the hobby nothing otherwise? Go there.

But, this thread started a serious point. If you want to do things right, MAKE IT HAPPEN.

There are dozens of events that are progressive, hardcore, or what ever label you want to hang on them. These should be saluted and supported.

If you so hate the "farby" ones, stay away from them. If you REALLY want to improve the hobby, try to help the "farby" ones to improve.

It really is a pretty simple concept. Support what you agree with. Have the courage of your convictions and DO it.

But, while it is a simple concept, it is NOT an easy action. It is hard work. It is a lot of working with people you may not like or respect. It is taking things in steps instead of leaps. It is many hours and lots of effort.

...but that is something few "hardkewels"* have ether the patience or intelligence to do.

Yours,

Warner Todd Huston
the I got no time for "hardkewels"* mess



*For those not in the know, a "hardkewel" is as bad as a militant farb, only in better clothing. He knows little about the civil war other than what he was told at his last campfire, can't drill, won't participate for fear of getting his expensive uniform dirty, and has never fired a musket because he is afraid of getting that dirty, too. He sits by the "cool" sutler the all day Saturday to show off his kewel stuff. He also can never be found Sunday because he left early. He can tell you the name and address of every "hardcore" sutler on the planet right off the top of his head, claims to have a personal relationship with each of them calling them by their first name, and has no fewer than 5 full uniforms of what ever time period during the war. He talks of NOTHING else but his kit. All day long and all night he blathers on and on about his jacket, his leathers, his hat, or the weft and weave of his pants. He always is trying to sell you parts of his kit he no longer wants at the same price he paid for it even as he has USED it already -- though he claims he never did. While selling his old kit he tries to convince you how great the item is by saying things like "this was a very short run, hardly anyone else has these", or "He no longer makes these, so they are hard to find." He is a bore in the extreme, a poser and entirely insufferable.

This is different from a progressive or a "hardcore" reenactor who may do a little of the above, but only in reasonable amounts and who actually participates at an event. Few progressives or hardcores like the "hardkewel" posers.

dustyswb
07-13-2006, 12:53 PM
Who are these "hardkewls" that haven't put on events? Name some names and I'll try to put a hole in your argument.

Regular3
07-13-2006, 01:41 PM
I have not tried Henrico Park. Had a bad experience with another VA county park structure trying to set up a reenactment of New Market Heights. Bureaucrats are as averse to risk as some Internet trolls are averse to work (or real life or actually taking the field).
I attended a reenactment of Gaines Mill & Malvern Hill at Dorey Park in Richmond back in June. This was my first time there and only the second time for the event.

Now we all know that when it comes to a battle event, a park is a park is a park, but both the scenarios - actions near & dear to those of us who do a Regular impression - and the location have "potential" ... Maybe some with experience in putting on quality events could offer the organizers the benefit of your experience - They told those of us who attended this year they want it to be an event that reenactors want to attend and seemed genuinely interested.

Trimmings
07-13-2006, 03:15 PM
I attended a reenactment of Gaines Mill & Malvern Hill at Dorey Park in Richmond back in June. This was my first time there and only the second time for the event.

That would be the place. While near the City of Richmond it is in fact a Henrico County facility, and is located at 7200 Dorey Park Drive off of Darbytown Road, which is a route with historical significance. Both Henrico County and Hanover County have great reputations for being reenactor friendly.

Ray Prosten

reb64
07-13-2006, 04:31 PM
I know reenacting on original ground is difficult out east but since I moved west I've been on mainly original battlefields, perryville, prarie grove, raymond, glasgow, carthage, nevada, mine creek, pea ridge, just to name a few. Its a great priviledge, but i was also at Herrs ridge one time and saltville Va, all original ground. It can be done.

TeamsterPhil
07-13-2006, 05:00 PM
But it is far esier to sit behind a computer screen and snipe at people. There is an entire weboard dedicated to such "hardkewel"*, do-nothings called the OhThey'refullaBullcrap board. Want to whine but offer the hobby nothing otherwise? Go there.


*For those not in the know, a "hardkewel" is as bad as a militant farb, only in better clothing. He knows little about the civil war other than what he was told at his last campfire, can't drill, won't participate for fear of getting his expensive uniform dirty, and has never fired a musket because he is afraid of getting that dirty, too. He sits by the "cool" sutler the all day Saturday to show off his kewel stuff. He also can never be found Sunday because he left early. He can tell you the name and address of every "hardcore" sutler on the planet right off the top of his head, claims to have a personal relationship with each of them calling them by their first name, and has no fewer than 5 full uniforms of what ever time period during the war. He talks of NOTHING else but his kit. All day long and all night he blathers on and on about his jacket, his leathers, his hat, or the weft and weave of his pants. He always is trying to sell you parts of his kit he no longer wants at the same price he paid for it even as he has USED it already -- though he claims he never did. While selling his old kit he tries to convince you how great the item is by saying things like "this was a very short run, hardly anyone else has these", or "He no longer makes these, so they are hard to find." He is a bore in the extreme, a poser and entirely insufferable.

.

WTH,

I am one of Moderators in the OTB.

EVERYONE (except for two individuals - niether named Bill or David) is accepted for membership in the OTB forum. Moast of the regular posters on the OTB attend several high quality events each season. Look at the list the was posted on the A-C of attendees of such evwents so far this season. You will find those names scattered throughout that list. Many of the regulars on the OTB have been involved in organizing in ebvents of all sorts -- Bill Rodman and I (and others, I'm sure) have organized (or helped) manty mainstream events. Others have been involved in organizing events scattered from Missouri to Tennessee to Pennsylvania.

As to being a "hardkewl" -- I own exactly enough Federal gear to portray a standard soldeir in the ranks. I have it supplemented with ONE officer's blouse and a sword belt & foot officer's sword to enable me to be an officer when absolutely necessary. I own a couple of civilian coats, a few shirts, and three pairs of civilian trousers. I attend events when my limited vacation time and budget allows me. I hate "gear talk" at events as much as you do. I probably hate brunken sing-alongs at events more than you do.

And by the way -- the OTB is not a Civil War reenacting board. We discuss everything from sports to the latest news to trains to NASA there. If you haven't been over there, check it oput. We don't take vwery much very seriously over there. Please don't take the OTB too seriously. We have this posted at the top of every page:

The content here is an abomination and several of the contributors known troublemakers. This is not a service to or for the betterment of the American Civil War hobby community. Nor is this site a positive influence. Do not read the posts here if you are a humorless prig or prissy Nancy Boy. The moderators here are mean-spirited, uncredentialed, uncultured and uneducated white trash. These forums are unseemly and have a decidedly elitist air. The posts exude arrogance, smugness and self-satisfaction that Nancy Boys find repellent. This is one forum where differing opinions are usually welcomed, and then, of course, shouted down by the majority of independent thinkers. You have been warned.

http://p221.ezboard.com/bofftopicboys

Phil Campbell

indguard
07-13-2006, 07:17 PM
Phil,

I have no idea why you felt compelled to post all that?

I did not mention your name, nor was I thinking of you.

I am SURE that many of the people on that board you mentioned are fine, upstanding folks. And, for sure, my opinion of that board is immaterial to your efforts there. But, you MUST admit you are being disingenuous to imagine it really is all in good fun there!

I have, indeed, been a member of the board in the past and found most of the blather there to be hateful, mean-spirited, pointless, utter trash posted by some of the most petty nere-do-wells one might meet. I have let my membership lapse, though, as I don't see a thing worth while there. And when I did post I posted not revealing my true identity as I have come in for a LOT of personal attacks on that hatemongering site you so want to defend. I get messages all the time about how I get attacked there even now.

Anyway, I am ONLY talking about the Hardkewels there, here and everywhere else. They are not a majority by any means. But they are the worst of the lot. I'd take an honest farb over a hardkewel any day of the week.

There is no reason, however, to name names and take notes on who is a hardkewel and who is not. You know them. I know them. Though it is doubtful they know themselves.

The whole point of my original post was to urge the complainers (as opposed to the campaigners) to get out and DO something about the subject of their ire. Put up or shut up, if you will.

I can name many who HAVE done this and they deserve all the credit for their hard work. Even people like Cooper and his pals, though they have set themselves up as self-appointed enemies to me, deserve credit for taking the bull by the horns and actually DOING something about their vision. Bravo for their taking the step forward and working to improve their hobby.

I know that you, too, have lent your hand to action (And Mr. Rodman, too, whom I respect quite a lot). Bully for you both!

In any case, the hardkewel is the worst aspect of the progressive side of civil war reenacting (I refuse to say "enacting" in that faux upper-crusty, nose in the air way) and they have been responsible for ruining many an event.

But, mostly, I just don't even know why they bother? Standing around the "cool" sutler for a few hours on a Saturday after a five hour drive and then going home without actually DOING anything at an event doesn't seem like much of a hobby to me! Then they claim THEY are more like a "real" soldier than everyone else??

It's all just too funny... if it weren't so tragic.

So, why you imagined I was targeting you is beyond me, but rest assured that I was not.

Yours,

Warner Todd Huston
the Let's Kill him at the OTB mess

TeamsterPhil
07-13-2006, 08:05 PM
WTH,

I posted that because the majority of the regular posters on the OTB are as Anti-Hardkewl Poser as you are. Your post gave me the impression that you believed the majority of the OTB members are hardkewl posers. Call it a demented sort of "unit loyalty", after all the OTB is a demented place. And yes, it can be a hateful place -- we have very few rules there (and being hateful and stupid isn't against the rules).

So, let's agree that we have a common "enemy". Maybe some day, we'll get to meet and share some nasty campfire coffee and rancid bacon.

Phil

indguard
07-13-2006, 08:18 PM
Phil,


Maybe some day, we'll get to meet and share some nasty campfire coffee and rancid bacon.


Be happy to... if'n yer buddies won't get too mad at you.

... just don't start talkin' all night about your new jacket or that kewel new handsewen shirt you bought at the hardkeweljohn's sutler!

Ha, ha!

WTH

bill watson
07-13-2006, 09:01 PM
"*For those not in the know, a "hardkewel" is as bad as a militant farb, only in better clothing. He knows little about the civil war other than what he was told at his last campfire, can't drill, won't participate for fear of getting his expensive uniform dirty, and has never fired a musket because he is afraid of getting that dirty, too. He sits by the "cool" sutler the all day Saturday to show off his kewel stuff. He also can never be found Sunday because he left early. He can tell you the name and address of every "hardcore" sutler on the planet right off the top of his head, claims to have a personal relationship with each of them calling them by their first name, and has no fewer than 5 full uniforms of what ever time period during the war. He talks of NOTHING else but his kit. All day long and all night he blathers on and on about his jacket, his leathers, his hat, or the weft and weave of his pants. He always is trying to sell you parts of his kit he no longer wants at the same price he paid for it even as he has USED it already -- though he claims he never did. While selling his old kit he tries to convince you how great the item is by saying things like "this was a very short run, hardly anyone else has these", or "He no longer makes these, so they are hard to find." He is a bore in the extreme, a poser and entirely insufferable.

This is different from a progressive or a "hardcore" reenactor who may do a little of the above, but only in reasonable amounts and who actually participates at an event. Few progressives or hardcores like the "hardkewel" posers."


I'd have to say Todd has pretty much nailed this. The only change I'd make is to frenchify the poncy fellows: "poseurs" rather than "posers." :-)

indguard
07-13-2006, 09:24 PM
The only change I'd make is to frenchify the poncy fellows: "poseurs" rather than "posers."

Ha, ha. Man, THAT was mean! To frenchify them is a LOW blow!!!

Ha, ha.

tompritchett
07-13-2006, 09:28 PM
Actually I can think of a few hard kewl who do attend events but then run down, and/or encourage others to run down every other event that do not meet their standards.

MStuart
07-13-2006, 09:33 PM
Actually I can think of a few hard kewl who do attend events but then run down, and/or encourage others to run down every other event that do not meet their standards.

Tom:

You don't have to be "hardkewl" to do that. It's done a lot by others, too.

Mark

tompritchett
07-13-2006, 09:38 PM
It's done a lot by others, too.

Very true. On the mainstreamer side, it is usually because who who is commanding or hosting the event. We bought know who one of the worst is at that. Unfortunately, I used to buy into his garbage. For that I am truly sorry.

MStuart
07-13-2006, 09:52 PM
I was with you for a while. We both learned. It's much better these days.

Mark

captdougofky
07-13-2006, 11:27 PM
Mr. Watson

I thought at times I raised a few hairs, I don't have time for the sulters I'm worried about gun powder and men, on a cannon. I do mainstream with the wife and young'n but if I every wanted to do a A/C event with a cannon how would it be possible, I take a 24 pounder with limber but I do not have horses, and I know you guys and gals like to move around a lot. That marching with my F350 is not going to work, My kit as you all call it is ok everything is handmade but I have trouble moving from one place to the other without my truck. I can leave the cooler at home. If you can give me a event or idea I would appreciate it.

Always Doug
Lyons Battery
Kentucky

cookiemom
07-13-2006, 11:45 PM
There's not a lot of that these days, seems like. Lot's of profanity getting by since this new contraption doesn't seem to have a filter. Not that we should have to resort to needing one, if'n ya know what I mean. I'm sure the ladies appreciate some gutter talk, don't you?

Mark
Unfortunately, I'm sure we've heard it all before, Sir, but the 10-year-old who suddenly appeared at my side this afternoon "to see what mommy was reading" does not need to deal with it. Thank you for your concern -- it is justified.

Thanks also to Mr. Pritchett for his edits.

Carole

Bill_Cross
07-14-2006, 09:28 AM
if I every wanted to do a A/C event with a cannon how would it be possible, I take a 24 pounder with limber but I do not have horses, and I know you guys and gals like to move around a lot. That marching with my F350 is not going to work.
Horse-drawn artillery is still quite a rarity period, so I don't think you'd find many campaigner organizers who'd refuse your offer of a gun. There are scenarios that allows for fixed emplacements (McDowell, Pickett's Mill, probably even Federal for "Into the Wilderness," we could have set you up for supporting fire).

While marching is an important part of campaigning, there are ways to work you in. Just reach out. You'd be surprised.