Ridge pole ... 2x3 or 2x4?

[Evil Dog]

Will be setting up an wedge tent (8'w, 9'l & 7'h) in the near future... it hasn't arrived yet. For the ridge pole which generally works better... 2x3 or 2x4? Either will be cut in half and sleeved so that it can fit in the trunk of my car. For the uprights I am thinking either 2x2 or 2x3.

Any suggestions?

[tompritchett]

2x3 uprights and 2x4 ridge pole.

[CWRetired]

IMHO:

Hate to say this, but CW Soldiers rarely had tents.. I mean, what's the point of doing it if we are not going to accurately portray what actually happened?

[tompritchett]

Hate to say this, but CW Soldiers rarely had tents.. I mean, what's the point of doing it if we are not going to accurately portray what actually happened?

Very true but given the fact that he has purchased such a tent and asked the question that he did, I answered his question accordingly.

[Charles Reynolds]

We have been sucessful using 4x4 ridgepoles and 2x2 up rights but 2x3 would be good. Regarding the use of tents during the war where did all the photos of them come from. As for myself I use one this 70 year old body has had it with sleeping out doors on the ground. Thank you Uncle Sam. Not bitter just old.
Chuck

[Ephraim_Zook]

Geez, guys,

There's another thread running right now that answers his question in detail, including a citation for the proper poles. Why give out conflicting information at the same time?

RM

[mnreb]

What is meant by accurately portray? Do you mean after a person gets out of the car that they drove to an event. Try as one might, you cannot reenenvent the wheel. There are many reasons why people do what they do. Each to their own. It is not our place to pass judgement.
Bill Feuchtenberger

[hanktrent]

What is meant by accurately portray? Do you mean after a person gets out of the car that they drove to an event.

I believe that's exactly what most reenactors do mean. What else would it mean? Who cares how accurate anyone is before an event begins, when they're not even reenacting?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

I think the meaning was after one steps out of a Time Machine in say 1863.
(But it could just be me...)

:) :)

The wheels on the bus go... round, round, round. ;)

CHS

"Answer the f****n' question." -Steven, "Braveheart" Mess

[Tigerrebjim]

IMHO: Hate to say this, but CW Soldiers rarely had tents.. I mean, what's the point of doing it if we are not going to accurately portray what actually happened?

I have seen period photos of garrison camps where tenting was used to house the soldiers. In fact, Camp Moore. Louisiana was totally a tent driven camp. Camp Moore was used as a training camp for primarily Louisiana troops, along with a smattering of Mississippi, Arkansas, and Texas troops.

JIM Tee

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

"This is a job for Civil Warman" someone was heard to say as he swooped in to pull the hapless lad out from under the wheels of the bus...

IMHO...

As with everything else, on the Sliding Scale of Imperfection... there are the History-Heavy Mental Pictures of what is researched and documented for the time, place, and circumstances of the unit being portrayed versus the History-Light Mental Picture choices of what lads need and want as part of the pursuit of their personal or collective CW COmmunity or Segment's interests and applications, likes and dislikes.

To say that CW soldiers NEVER had tentage is on the same level as saying CW soliders ALWAYS had tents- with the reality being specific to unit, time, place, and circumstances- and NUG tilting away from tents with each year of the War as the nature of campaigning and fighting changed.

Others' mileage will vary...

CHS
Our suffering was in tents Mess

[RJSamp]

IMHO:

Hate to say this, but CW Soldiers rarely had tents.. I mean, what's the point of doing it if we are not going to accurately portray what actually happened?

Incorrect. Define what you mean by 'rarely' and I'd be more than happy to analyze your error.

We've got pictures of THOUSANDS of tents set up in camp being used by CW soldiers....QM records...diaries....you name it.... If you are talking on campaign then the onus is on that reenactor for that event for that impression.... but I know of dozens of campaigns where tents were actually carried along and used. and not just shelter halves/rubber blanket shebangs.

There are many reasons to portray certain aspects of the ACW inaccurately in order to portray other aspects more accurately. Huh?

Example: no one is going to portray the Battle of Wilson's creek without tents for either side. For CSA it's simply inaccurate (they had tents [what was that you said...rarely?]). For the Federals we aren't going to march from our Tent Camp in Springfield, MO ....walk 8 miles in the dark, fight 2 or 3 scenarios (we don't have the manpower and spectator sight/site lines to reenact the entire battle in real time)...and then walk (Run!) back to Springfield to our Tent camps. Repeat on Sunday. Instead we set up a camp near the battle site....march out from the inaccurate (for campaigning) tent camps....portray the scenario....march back to the camps (inaccurately as they went back only once and all the way to Springfield)....requip, reload, reuniform, eat, recharge, and march out for another scenario. Where did you want us to go that night? Friday night?

Understand that a very tiny minority of the hobby enjoys hoofing it all in, staying a whopping 36 hours, and doesn't enjoy reenacting powder burning battles up to the accurate levels of combat....there's a couple tens of thousands of us that enjoy a cheap motel room (a tent camp) that's nearby the theatre (the battle field)....complete with a hot cooked meal, some singing, and a hunk of straw to soften the ground.

But RARELY? time for you to do your homework on the hundreds of nights each soldier slept under a tent during the course of their enlistment.

[Artyman]

The supply train was often just a short distance behind the main column, if not actually in the column and slowing it down. One of the items commonly carried in it was tentage, both enlisted men's and officers. I read somewhere that when Stuart captured that line of Federal supply wagons and brought them to Lee at Gettysburg, they were full. That's one of the reasons it took Stuart so long to rejoin Lee. Stuart was actually excited he had captured these wagons and supplies, until Lee chastized him. When those very same wagons left Gettysburg they were full of wounded. I'm sure the stuff left behind didn't go to waste. It was probably recovered by the victorious Federal supply guys.

Part of the quartermasters job was to quickly erect these tent lines and lay out the streets. It was a common crap detail for the sargeants and officers to order the men to 'adjust' the tent rows. A unit moving fast (like at Bull Run) would not have time to have a camp set up before the battle, and a quick withdrawal often leaving a camp for the enemy to pillage. Tents that weren't burned often changed hands. But, some units carried shelter halves and even sectional pole sets. Depended on your mission. If you had a shelter, and there was time, you'd set it up. True today, true then, nuff said!

Now, all that ironwork, furniture, and tea sets is another matter. A common soldier wouldn't want a set of iron tent pegs weighing down his knapsack while on the march, and you can't stick a five foot long pole in there either. That stuff would have had to be in the pack train if it was there at all. True today, true then, nuff said!

Harry

[mnreb]

Great response! I agree! Nuff said.
"It Do"
Bill Feuchtenberger

[billwatson2]

"A unit moving fast (like at Bull Run) would not have time to have a camp set up before the battle,"

Units at 1st Bull Run didn't have tents. A few years ago for the anniversary event we researched the marching orders for the federal army for that campaign. No tents. And it was pre-shelter halves. It was, after all, high summer in Virginia and a little dampness from the occasional shower wasn't held to be a big deal. It was included in General Order 17 from Gen. McDowell, July 16:

"Troops will march without their tents, and wagons will only be taken with them for ammunition, the medical department, and for intrenching tools. "

[RJSamp]

"A unit moving fast (like at Bull Run) would not have time to have a camp set up before the battle,"

Units at 1st Bull Run didn't have tents. A few years ago for the anniversary event we researched the marching orders for the federal army for that campaign. No tents. And it was pre-shelter halves. It was, after all, high summer in Virginia and a little dampness from the occasional shower wasn't held to be a big deal. It was included in General Order 17 from Gen. McDowell, July 16:

"Troops will march without their tents, and wagons will only be taken with them for ammunition, the medical department, and for intrenching tools. "

I'll buy that....but I'd be willing to bet a year's salary that the Federal Army used tents around Washington prior to marching out..... the word used was RARELY.....I'm not buying it.

None of us are doing the march out from Washington to Manassas.....and the only way to portray multiple regiments in combat over multiple scenarios over multiple days is to stay near the event battle site. Since modern hotels aren't being provided/built.....let's camp....since we're trying to portray 1860-1865...why not white canvas?

It's just as inaccurate, if not more so, to portray a campaigning Federal regiment at Bull Run.....and bivouac on site each night. Originally, They marched to the battlefield and ran away....they did not sleep for 3 nites ON/near the battlefield. If the No Tents crowd wants to portray this, that's fine....but start off the event site about 5 miles (not 1 mile like at Perryville 2006, that's an equal farbosity) and rout back to your bivouac....twice on Saturday and once on Sunday.

Campaigning is not about being without tents....it's about the movement! Many times tents caught up to the campaigning army after a 15 or 20 mile march.
Campaigning doesn't mean marching in from the parking lot with everything on you.

Campaigning without the marching is like dismounting without the horse.

[plankmaker]

Arty Dude,

This has been posted on here several times but it is worth posting again. The stuff left behind at Gettysburg was actually collected and inventoried by members of the Pennsylvania Emergency Militia troops that were raised ofr the invasion.

Mark Campbell
Piney Flats, TN

The following is and excerpt from:

History and Rosters of the 53rd Pennsylvania Emergency and State Militia Troops of 1863

Mustered in July 2-13, 1863 - Discharged August 18-20, 1863

The militia was, however, held for some time after this, and was employed on various duty. The Thirty-sixth Regiment was sent to Gettysburg, and its commanding officer, Colonel H.C. Alleman, was made Military Governor of the district, embracing the battle-ground. It was engaged in gathering in the wounded and stragglers from both armies, in collecting the debris of the field, and in sending away the wounded as fast as their condition would permit. Colonel Alleman, in his official report, gives the following schedule of property as having been collecting from the battlefield: "Twenty-six thousand six hundred and sixty-four muskets, nine thousand two hundred and fifty bayonets, one thousand five hundred cartridge boxes, two hundred and four sabres, fourteen thousand rounds of small-arm ammunition, twenty-six artillery wheels, seven hundred and two blankets, forty wagon loads of clothing, sixty saddles, sixty bridles, five wagons, five hundred and ten horses and mules, and six wagon loads of knapsacks and haversacks." The ordnance stores he shipped to the Washington Arsenal, and the remainder of the government property he turned over to an agent of the War Department. From the various camps and hospitals on the battlefield, and in the surrounding country, he reports having collected and sent away to northern cities, "twelve thousand and sixty-one wounded Union soldiers, six thousand one hundred and ninety-seven wounded rebels, three thousand and six rebel prisoners, and one thousand six hundred and thirty-seven stragglers." The Fifty-first Regiment, Colonel Hopkinson, was also on duty at Gettysburg, after the battle. The Forty-seventh Regiment, Colonel J.P. Wickersham, returned from the neighborhood of Williamsport at Reading, and was thence sent to the mining regions of Schuylkill County, where a collision with disaffected parties, for a time was imminent, but was averted without violence. The Thirty-eighth Regiment, Colonel Horn, the Forty-ninth, Colonel Murphy, and the Fifty-third, Colonel Royer, were also sent to portions of the State, bordering upon the Schuylkill and the North Branch of the Susquehanna Rivers, where they were employed in enforcing authority. The Thirty-fourth, Colonel Charles Albright, was sent to Philadelphia, and arrived at a time when turbulent spirits seemed intent on riot and bloodshed. Wild disorders, such as at this time were raging in the streets of New York, appeared likely to break forth here at any moment. By the exercise of great discretion, and by friendly conference with a class who could influence the men, he succeeded in allaying excitement and securing peace and quiet. The Forty-sixth, Colonel John J. Lawrence, and the Fifty-ninth, Colonel George P. M'Lean, were also sent to Philadelphia, where they rendered important service, at a most critical time.

[Cannon Fodder]

I hear it all the time " they didn't have tents." The history of the 6th Indiana volunteer infantry says that in their 3 years they seldom went without tents. Having the Regimental Quartermaster train following them through out the war.
I believe that most regiments probably had such trains or the goverment would have done away with quartermasters and issued more rifles.