The 'proper' tent poles

[mravery]

Hello all,

Are the 'proper' poles for a wall tent (or A-frame for that matter) hexagonal with copper caps on the ends?

Also, what about the side poles for the wall tent?

I thought of taking a 2x2 (which is actually 1.5x1.5) and making it hexagonal. would this work for the proper impression?

Also, how about the ridge pole, what is proper, a 2x4, 2x3 or a 2x2 ?

Cheers
Mark

[mnreb]

Hi.
For my a frame, I use 2x2's maybe a little bigger. Cut down from 2x4. They are cut in 1/2. A sleeve is attached to each pole with rope wrapped around it to hide the sleeve so to speak. The same is done for the ridge pole, except there are 3 sections. Guess what. I can throw these in the trunk of my car, and away I go. Wall ten, is another story. I would really like to be able to do it with actual tree limbs, but have not figured out how to do it. YET! Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Bill Feuchtenberger

[michael.shafto]

For my common tent, I use a 2x4 with the ends cut down to a 2x2 as the ridgepole. After that I drill a hole in the ends to accomodate a metal pin (usually a 3/8 inch bolt with the head cut off). Then I take two 2x2, cut to length, with the metal pin glued in a hole drilled into the top of the upright poles. The poles then fit into the notch in the ridgepole that was cut, and the whole assembly fits flush, with about 1/2 inch of the metal pole remaining to hold the canvas in place. (The tent should have grommets on the top). Before my Cavalry days, I had to make the ridgepole fit in the car, so I cut the center of the pole at a 45 degree angle, and drilled two holes in the ridgepole from top to bottom. Then I ran two carriage bolts through the pieces, bolting them together for events but allowing them to travel in a car.

For my shelter tent, I use two sticks with a rough Y shape at the top that I found in the woods near my house as the uprights. There is a trick to using a rope as the ridgepole, but I haven't figured it out yet. I usually use a third stick.

Many of the guys in my outfit use a similar setup as my common tent for their walls. But, as I do not have one, I will have to let them comment on it more. Hope this helped!

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Since Mr. Avery asked what was "proper" lets go with what was actually documented: from chaper II.33, pages 177 & 178, "The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium, Vol II", the uprights were 2in x 2in hexagonal with 1and 3/4in iron bands at the top secured with two screws and was 79 1/2in long plus a 7/8in iron rod 8in long buried 2in into the top of the upright. The ridgepole was 2 1/2in x 1 7/8in, 82in long with 2in iron bands on the ends. Since most reproduction tents don't conform to QM specs, adjust the pole's lengths accordingly.

[mravery]

Thanks guys!

Ross,

Thanks for the details... looks like I'll be spending some time in the woodshop to get this right!

:D

Cheers
Mark

[tompritchett]

Since Mr. Avery asked what was "proper" lets go with what was actually documented:

I was wondering when someone would pick up on that part of his request.

[Ephraim_Zook]

This discussion came up a couple of years ago and I said that poles were hexagonal, but I couldn't find the documentation. I got trounced on big time by people who insisted that they were octagonal because octagons were so much easier to cut than hexs.

Glad to see it. I'll have to revisit the CRRC II to see what other good stuff I'm missing.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

This discussion came up a couple of years ago and I said that poles were hexagonal, but I couldn't find the documentation. I got trounced on big time by people who insisted that they were octagonal because octagons were so much easier to cut than hexs.

Glad to see it. I'll have to revisit the CRRC II to see what other good stuff I'm missing.
Ron and all: My mistake, the info from CRRC II did show OCTAGONAL and not hexagonal. I was half asleep when I looked it up this morning

[mravery]

Ron and all: My mistake, the info from CRRC II did show OCTAGONAL and not hexagonal. I was half asleep when I looked it up this morning


Ok,

That just saved me a LOT of extra work....:D

Cheers
Mark

[Spinster]

Those octagonal poles are a great pleasure. They just look better......

That, and those farbolicious iron gravity hangers don't fit on them :p

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Those octagonal poles are a great pleasure. They just look better......

That, and those farbolicious iron gravity hangers don't fit on them :p
Ahhhhh...Farbolicious - thats the greatest vocabulary word I've heard in years. Its one of those great words that can be a noun, a verb, and an adjective!

[Spinster]

And it can candy coat the awful reality in a tasty peppermint striped coating. :p Yum!

[GaWildcat]

Something you might want to look into is Army surplus... when I was in the Reserves up in Chattanooga some years back we had to clean out a warehouse that if I recall was to be torn down. I managed to acquire two poles for a GP Small... hexagonal, with (shall we say farbolicious) galvanized end caps and pins.

Cost to taxpayer = Who knows
Cost to reenactor for fairly accurate tent poles = Zero Dollars!!

Check with a Defense Reutilization Management Office (DRMO) to see if they have any, or an Army/Navy Surplus dealer...or a local Reserve or Guard unit may have some laying around somewhere. As Mr Lamoreaux says, you may have to adjust the height of the pole...I had to cut around three to four inches off.

[Spinster]

:p Bobby, in our vocabulary, farbolicious means something that is glaringly undocumented and unredeemable, and can be done without by using a modicum of reliance on the historical record and some basic personal initiative.

A plastic cooler with a blanket thrown over it is farbolicious. A large pottery churn, full of cold water and kept in the shade will go a long way towards serving the same purpose without presenting a glaring anomaly. It may however, require more work.

Those galvanized ends, while incorrect materials, are likely in the correct configuration, and a nice coat of paint covers a great deal of sin.

[EasySam]

I also picked up a bunch of tent poles from an army surplus. They are great. An addition to cutting them to the correct length, I ground down the ends of the pins to go through a grommet. At the same time I bought the ridge poles. They are a little smaller than a 2x4s and are a bit rounded on the top. They are reinforced at the ends with galvanized collars. These too I cut to fit, then redrilled the hole and reattached the collar. Really really like em.

[RJSamp]

Ahhhhh...Farbolicious - thats the greatest vocabulary word I've heard in years. Its one of those great words that can be a noun, a verb, and an adjective!

It's also unnecessarily long. Farb is one of those 4 letter words that can be a noun, a verb, and an adjective.....KISS. no need for the extra pompousity.

Amazerful.

[RJSamp]

:p Bobby, in our vocabulary, farbolicious means something that is glaringly undocumented and unredeemable, and can be done without by using a modicum of reliance on the historical record and some basic personal initiative.

A plastic cooler with a blanket thrown over it is farbolicious. A large pottery churn, full of cold water and kept in the shade will go a long way towards serving the same purpose without presenting a glaring anomaly. It may however, require more work.

Those galvanized ends, while incorrect materials, are likely in the correct configuration, and a nice coat of paint covers a great deal of sin.

My grandmother would call that a million dollar word. KISS Terre. The word is Farb. 4 letters.

[Spinster]

Mistah Samp,

Its an ingrained habit of manner for Southroners of a certain age to dress up bare facts in more palatable and pleasing terms, or to deliver bad news in an indirect manner. We consider it a mark of civilization. Others find it very annoying.

Much the same societal rule applies to the convention of only using the Christian name when one has been properly introduced in a social setting and has some long knowledge or relationship or some kinship linkage. ;)

[Poor Private]

Now to bring it back to what this thread is about. Where oh where can a person pickup/purchase those sectional poles for the shelter half. I have available to me the army surplus sectional poles but they are not quite PEC.
Some places will not let you cut your own on the event property. Now I have been using Y poles cut in my own woods but-- in Michigan you cannot transport cut wood from other states, or even from the upper to lower Peninsula, even county by county is being frownd upon due to the emerald ash boarer. You can bring in construction lumber since this has been dried . Campers have been known to be stopped and searched by the DNR . Confiscation and fines are not unheard of.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Now to bring it back to what this thread is about. Where oh where can a person pickup/purchase those sectional poles for the shelter half. I have available to me the army surplus sectional poles but they are not quite PEC.
Some places will not let you cut your own on the event property. Now I have been using Y poles cut in my own woods but-- in Michigan you cannot transport cut wood from other states, or even from the upper to lower Peninsula, even county by county is being frownd upon due to the emerald ash boarer. You can bring in construction lumber since this has been dried . Campers have been known to be stopped and searched by the DNR . Confiscation and fines are not unheard of.
The only place I've seen in the last year or so that carried the sectional shelter tent poles is Regimental Quartermaster. The list of folks who used to sell them is much longer (CJ Daley, EJ Thomas, Haversack Depot, etc.), but alas, none of them have them as of late.

[Poor Private]

Thanks Ross, I'll have to take a peek at thier site.

[Poor Private]

Just looked, no-go unless they are hiding on the Regemental Quartermaster site. Anyone else have ideas?

[Artillery Engineer]

I just use red cedar poles cut and dressed.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Just looked, no-go unless they are hiding on the Regemental Quartermaster site. Anyone else have ideas?
They're not listed on the website, but they are available at their retail store and at events as of three weeks ago.

[mnreb]

Look on their menu under campaigner. They have sectional ones for shelter halves.
Bill Feuchtenberger

[Poor Private]

mnreb,
thanks thats where I found them. 15 bucks apiece. I may order a couple of sets after the holidays.

[Scooby_308]

RJ, didn't you post some years ago about proper poles? And where is that article on the correct use of tent flies?

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

According to "The Federal Civil War Shelter Tent" by Fred Gaede, there are no surviving original shelter tent poles that are currently recongnized. We have several sources to aid in the research of them, however, and that is surviving contracts, the QM specifications from 1879, and the design of the tent itself. From page 75: "The poles for War-time shelter tents needed to be about 4 feet in length to achieve a usable pitch to the tent. Manufactured poles were likely similiar to the ones described in 1879 as "round, one (1) inch in diameter and three (3) feet ten (10) inches long, to be made of poplar, pine or other suitable wood. Each upright to be in two (2) parts, of about equal length, beveled and joined in a tin socket four (4) inches long, firmly soldered and secured to the lower part with two (2) tacks. A shoulder, three-quarters (3/4) of an inch deep, to be turned on upper end of uprights, making a spindle or stud one-half (1/2) of an inch in diameter"". The design of Federal shelter tents makes this plausible, as they have in the upper corners of each half a reinforced corner with two handsewn grommets (or in the case of some Cincinnatti shelters, one grommet and one slotted hole similiar to a buttonhole) one for the guy line and one for the stud at the top of the upright for a pole.

[RJSamp]

RJ, didn't you post some years ago about proper poles? And where is that article on the correct use of tent flies?

don't tickle the gorilla :) .....but yes this has been discussed previously at great lengths.


Take a look at that Hardcore Video, the one of the GAR reunion for GBurg on an earlier thread. The camp streets are laid out flawlessly.....raised boardwalk street (good for wheel chairs, crutches, canes, and anti mud no doubt!)....and gabled front porch tent flies....

[lazyrebel2]

Everyone use to jump on me to get cedar poles, but you can't cut tree's at a reenactment. ;)

[JohnSeever]

Since Mr. Avery asked what was "proper" lets go with what was actually documented: from chaper II.33, pages 177 & 178, "The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium, Vol II", the uprights were 2in x 2in hexagonal with 1and 3/4in iron bands at the top secured with two screws and was 79 1/2in long plus a 7/8in iron rod 8in long buried 2in into the top of the upright. The ridgepole was 2 1/2in x 1 7/8in, 82in long with 2in iron bands on the ends. Since most reproduction tents don't conform to QM specs, adjust the pole's lengths accordingly.

What length of poles would I need for a tent that is 6'X6'X6'? Would the two upright poles be 72 inches in length with the 7/8" iron rods 8" long buried 2" into the top, instead of the 79.5 in long pole?. what would be the length of the pole that runs the length of a 6x6x6? 72" long for the one that runs the length riht?

Thanks in advance.

[billwatson2]

John,

There may be another way to do this, but my solution is to set the tent up with dummy poles and either cut them or slip 3/4 inch planks under them, depending on whether they are too long or too short, until the tent "hangs" right. Then a measurement gives you the length you need for the "real" poles.

I guess everyone knows that if you take a store-bought 2x2 and make it octagonal what you then have is more like a pool cue than a tent pole, huh? :smile: It's 1.5 to begin with. These days you almost need to glue up stuff to get the right "starting" dimensions. Cutting down a 4x4 is just such a waste of good (expensive) wood....

[GaWildcat]

Another easy way to get the right end poles is check out any USAR/ARNG units for old GP poles... I have a set and they are about spot on .... even octagonel.
You may also want to check the Army surplus stores or a Defense Reutilization Management Office (DRMO) for the same. You may need do some surgery from the bottom to adjust for height, as they start at 7'

[lincolnsguard]

"Quote:
Since Mr. Avery asked what was "proper" lets go with what was actually documented:


"I was wondering when someone would pick up on that part of his request."
__________________

Well said. Mostly because folks are quick to offer "what I do" or "opinion" rather than what they know is documented, because most folks really don't know. Nicely done Ross.;-)

[Artyman]

Glenn's Surplus in Shelby Ohio has boxes of those sectional poles, WWII issue, in perfect to excellant condition. Cheap. They even have surplus shelter halves (WWII). Of course, they ain't right for ACW, but just thought I'd mention it.

Harry

[Artyman]

John,
You really should just cut the poles to match your tent. As has already been stated previously, tents are not standardized in this hobby, and were of various sizes in the ACW.
Harry

[3rdUSRedleg]

Only in reference to dimentions of
an original pole (http://www.riverhillsdepot.com/pole.jpg), time frame est. pre ww1

[cjdaley]

The only place I've seen in the last year or so that carried the sectional shelter tent poles is Regimental Quartermaster. The list of folks who used to sell them is much longer (CJ Daley, EJ Thomas, Haversack Depot, etc.), but alas, none of them have them as of late.

The market for those poles we very small. Like any new item entering the market, they sold very quickly right away, then the demand died off. I also had a bit of a hard time getting my wood worker to produce them consistently (quantity, not quality). According my my records, I sold 97 poles within the hobby, most of those in pairs to people and 562 pins. Those seem like good numbers, but over the 7 years I carried them, they just weren't worth the profit margian to carry them on the shelf.

I guess I stopped carrying them about 3 years ago and haven't had one request since then for them, so that gives me a good indication that the demand has been met and secondary market items will feel the remaining need.