PDA

View Full Version : 2011 - 2014: looking ahead



TeamsterPhil
07-11-2006, 09:55 PM
The thread about the annual Gettysburg thread has prompted me to do some thinking.

The 135th G'burg event was my first (and only) big Eastern event. In spite of its flaws, it made a huge impression on me. Is there anyone that will be able to step up to the plate and put on one (or more) large (dare I say "mega") events for the 150th cycle? I have seen one organizer in the starting phases of putting together enough ducks in a row to make an attempt. I am afraid that his efforts will stall out in the 2 to 3 thousand man range, due to an emphasis on the "campagners" that attend his events. I believe that he has developed a decent enough following in the cph world that more efforts should be made to the solidly mainstream world, and could be done without ailienting his cph following. Without the big hitters on the mainstream side of the hobby, NO ONE will be able to recreate the awesome size that the 150th cycle deserves. Do we want a 1000-1500 man division under Pickett in 2013 or would we rather see 4 or 5 thousand? I think there HAS to be eight to ten thousand of "us" without inviting the TurboFarbs or the Indian.

Any thoughts??

Phil Campbell

flattop32355
07-12-2006, 03:30 PM
Without the big hitters on the mainstream side of the hobby, NO ONE will be able to recreate the awesome size that the 150th cycle deserves. Do we want a 1000-1500 man division under Pickett in 2013 or would we rather see 4 or 5 thousand? I think there HAS to be eight to ten thousand of "us" without inviting the TurboFarbs or the Indian.

I think it is entirely doable, but not as a single, one-shot deal. It will require similar events in some of the years leading up to it, on good ground, growing each time, to allow for experience and familiarity.

Wild Rover
07-13-2006, 09:15 AM
Fact- If we as reenactors do not take controll of our hobby and stop being consumers, we will never have the type of events we are looking for.

Events based on history, not hobby, not campaigners, not mainstreamers.

History.

Now, that being said, I know there are 5000 folks in the whole hobby who want something better, something more, something, well, real. And since the hobby lifespan of the average reenactor is less than 4-5 years, there are probably another 3000 that have no idea it can be better...they have never ever ever seen such.

Many folks have been working long and hard to build towards just what you speak.

There has been some real progress made in cooperation between many groups over the past 4 years or so...moving into 2007 I think you will see something more, something real.

Many groups signed unto the Common Sense Resolution...many did not...but it was a solid building block moving forward.

Might be worth another read- www.wmhf.org

Pards,

Bill_Cross
07-13-2006, 09:54 AM
Many groups signed unto the Common Sense Resolution...many did not...but it was a solid building block moving forward.
Unfortunately, promises get made and then broken.

It's about the land. If you or anyone could come up with a location near Gettysburg that would approximate the original, I believe that an alternative event could be crafted. While I would prefer as authentic an event as possible, I'm sure your "campaigner lite" model from "Gates of Washington," etc. would work. The mainstream groups would quite possibly desert that abortion that's being offered every year by the merchants of polyester.

It's always about the land.

Wild Rover
07-13-2006, 10:28 AM
It is about land, and land is the key to anything.

In Process.

Film at 11.

Pards,

TeamsterPhil
07-14-2006, 10:29 PM
Chris,

Keep us updated on the progress. I was in a small ad-hoc battalion of Trans-Miss mainstreamers at the 135th G'burg. I could probably scare up at least a company of guiys from the wrong side of the Wide Muddy River in 2013 (assuming we're all still weaing stinky wool) if the event looks worth attending.

Phil

captdougofky
07-15-2006, 04:09 AM
To All

I like history heavy events but the key to numbers is and always will be family friendly events. Don't forget the almighty dollar for when they say its not about the money its about the money, thats the fuel that drives everthing in this country and that includes this hobby.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery
Kentucky

hanktrent
07-15-2006, 07:11 AM
Events based on history, not hobby, not campaigners, not mainstreamers.

History

I've got to agree with Doug. Making history the main priority won't draw big numbers, unless you're using some watered-down definition of "history" that doesn't mean what I understand it to mean.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Big numbers don't do anything for me so I won't be there, but it's common sense that to get more people, you need to compromise to appease everyone at least a little.

The way I'm reading "history" in that context, it means you have to throw out the conventions that campaigners are familiar with, as well as the conventions that mainstreamers are familiar with, and approach the whole thing from the attitude of "what did the original men (and women) do? How can we structure the event to do that as closely as practical?"

That puts people way out of their comfort zone. And they may not even want it, because often they're so used to overlooking some things that those things don't interfere with their suspension of disbelief anymore. So they have no need to want them eliminated. And that includes the conventions of campaign events, as well as mainstream ones. Events based on history rather than hobby norms, is a cutting-edge philosophy, designed to produce something small and experimental, not a way to get maximum numbers on the field.

Obviously Chris is doing something right, to attract big numbers. But I'd call it a compromise between the normal expectations of the f/m/a and the c/p/h ends of the hobbies, not an approach that puts history ahead of both.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

tompritchett
07-15-2006, 09:48 AM
f/m/a

This is the first time that I can remember seeing the f/m/a label for events. "f" and "m" are obvious, but what does the "a" stand for. Normally I would guess "authentic" but that would belong to the "c/p/h" side.

hanktrent
07-15-2006, 11:58 AM
This is the first time that I can remember seeing the f/m/a label for events. "f" and "m" are obvious, but what does the "a" stand for. Normally I would guess "authentic" but that would belong to the "c/p/h" side.

Authenticists. I'd read the definition but never really comprehended the concept until I ran into enough of them. They want to be excrutiatingly accurate in whatever their pet interests are, but have minimal interest in anything outside of those interests. If you see soldiers with incredible skill at drill camping with sleeping bags and coolers, or civilians in breath-takingly accurate clothing snapping pictures of the battle, there are your authenticists.

They tend to have good reputations as researchers, but just don't have any interest in the concept of overall accuracy or putting their specialty in accurate context. They may be the ones who urge for improvement most strongly in their specialty, but resist equally strongly when anyone urges them to improve outside of their own particular area.

Thus an event which would appeal to both C/P's and M/A's would be one where there are accurate battles and an optional march, but what you have in your tent at the static camp is your own business. Eliminate the march, and you tend to lose the C/P's; eliminate the ability to hide modern stuff for after-hours camping, and you tend to lose the M/A's.

Requiring accurate battle scripts and allowing modern items in camp would discourage both the F's and H's, but for numbers, it's that big area in the middle you need, not the tails on both ends.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

TeamsterPhil
07-15-2006, 12:30 PM
I think Hank has nailed down what I see Chris trying to do. If he can garner enough support over the next few years, the 150th cycle may not have the biggeast mainstream events in history, but they may be the best since the 125th to 135th cycle.

If this trend is successful, we may have just broken our little avocation into THREE hobbies (just what y'all wanted to hear ;) ). Most reenactors (I think) can live with Chris' concept being the New Mainstream. There would be the end of the spectrum that tries to achieve a higher level of accuracy (today's CPH movement), and the other end of the spectrum that still hang onto the family camping in funny clothes that is 100% about having fun and playing old timey soldiers in spite of what the historical record may say. We may have to reallocate the letters into: F - M/A/C/P - H, with some overlap just as there is today with the F/M/A-C/P/H division.

Phil Campbell

tompritchett
07-15-2006, 11:46 PM
We may have to reallocate the letters into: F - M/A/C/P - H, with some overlap just as there is today with the F/M/A-C/P/H division.

Personally, I like that breakdown as it greatly reduces the current ambiquity about what is labelled a "campaigner" event and thus hopefully lessens the flame wars that erupt over Chris and Dave's events.