Texas Saddle

[Tiger_rifles]

Hello All,
Need some help with a saddle. What style of saddle would members of Sibleys Army of New Mexico been riding? I know they could have captured US gear, but I am looking to portray them as they left Texas. We know from multible sources that almost nothing was issued to them, they brought almost everything from home.
I have found/researched the "Hope" saddle, used in great numbers,(mostly for working cattle), in Texas from 1840's on, but they are $$$$$!!! Atleast the ones I have found.
I really like the "Buena Vista" saddle as I have found it was used from the mid 1700's and known for its comfort of ride,(good idea when you know you are going as far as they were!!), and because it was my Grandfather's favorate saddle. But how does the modern version compair to one from the 1850's?

I would also like to hear what you think about a bit and bridle for this impression.
Many thanks to all, Paul.

[JohnnyGillette]

Paul,

You are on a solid track with a Hope. The Buena Vista, Plantation saddle would not have been too common for this expedition, IMHO. Yes they were in use, but look at the area of where the men were recruited from and their employment prior to service. The use of a "Plantation" saddle would likely not have been the first choice for a man, from this area, who had been of a labor class; a saddle needed to be built so a fella could tie hard and fast. Officers, a different story.

For Civilian saddles from 1840-1860 Texas, there are loads of resources to look at examples. Cowboy Hall of Fame, OK City has some in their inventory. Wash. on the Brazos Museum, Waco's TX Ranger Museum, and many more. They vary from covered in leather to a skeleton frame with hardly any leather tacked to the tree. I personally would stay away from military saddles.

Now, military bits, headstall, etc. more likely. Dragoon would be a good choice too. I would like to see more representations of a hackamore and mecate, and this impression would be ideal for that. Don't be afraid to contact "civilian" collections in museums with western, vaquerro, cowboy, early Texas holdings. This is basically an impression of civilians on a military campaign, with some exceptions.

This is a very generalized and simplified version of my opinion, based on research for my impression of the same campaign, and family record of 2 Whitleys who were on this campaign. I am interested in any other views on this.

Where have you looked at saddles? There are some good makers of these early types. A good saddle is going to cost, but they don't have to be overpriced. Contact me if you would like info for some correct Texas Saddle makers.

Rae G. Whitley

[Blair]

Paul,

Ryan's in Ft Worth, TX. still has the pattern tree for the Hope Texas saddles, among many other pre 1860's Civilian and Military saddles. You can buy the basic tree with rawhide cover or have them rig it out for you. It just depends on how much you are willing to spend.
You might also be able to use the basic Mexican working saddle tree which the Hope was patterned around.
Blair Taylor

[Longbranch 1]

You might want to check out Border States Leatherworks. Doug Kidd has a few different options, and excellent quality at fair prices.
Regardless of where you purchase, don't skimp on your tack, as that can prove to be a very painful lesson.

Regards,
Kevin Ellis,
26th NC

[Dave Myrick]

While Border States work is acceptable, it is not the best available in terms of authenticity. Check with Glenn Pier Depot. Karl has several versions of saddles that are appropriate for a westen Confederate impression. As for headgear, a simple curb bit buckled into a halter bridle would work nicely.

Dave Myrick

[Tiger_rifles]

Thank you Gentlemen for your help in this matter!

OK, I will throw out the BV idea and go with the Hope saddle, I like that one the best anyway! Thank you for the Glenn Pier Depot site, I had not found that one in my research and I really like thier work from the pictures and descriptions given.
Has anyone out there ever used a Glenn Pier saddle? What about the Hope?

I really like the idea of using a hackamore with this impression, I have used them before but would have never thought of that so "Thank you Sir"!

[VaTrooper]

I have a GPD Texas and CS Mac. Great saddles.

[NC5thcav]

Does anybody know who makes a correct hackamore bit? I have a horse that won't take a bit in the mouth.

[cavsgt]

I think that the hackamore bits that we see are from a much later time. The hackamore that is mentioned in this time frame is I think what we call a bosal and is readily available. It will take some training to get your horse working with it, but it is worth the time.
Phill

[VaTrooper]

I talked to Glenn Pier a while back because I was considering buying a horse that is currently ridden with one and Karl said that he was developing one baised on some period pictures. Worth giving Karl a call over.

[Ken R KNopp]

Paul,

You might also consider a Mexican or California saddle of the proper 1850's patterns although I agree the "Hope" (Texas) would likely be the most authentic for the unit you wish to portray. Buena Vista would definitely NOT be appropriate...at least the saddle that most of us modern folks know as the Buena Vista. They are post war. The following is an excerpt from an article (COMMERCIAL AND CATALOG SADDLES OF THE 19TH & EARLY 20TH CENTURY AMERICA) that will be published in the December issue of NORTH SOUTH TRADER's CIVIL WAR magazine (Orange, Va.)

"Buena Vista: Made on “Wilbourne” (or “Wilburn”) trees. Also known as the “Wilbourn Saddle”, the Buena Vista saddle was never a Confederate pattern saddle however, it was a very common and popular commercial saddle pattern that was manufactured from 1883 until the early 1960's.
The Wilbourn/Buena Vista Saddle was invented by William Wilbourn of Virginia. Legends, folklore and possibly inaccurate information suggests the following story of the Buena Vista saddle: Apparently, Wilbourn served in the Confederate army during the war. Upon returning home he opened a saddle making shop in Lexington Virginia. In 1883, it is known he patented his “Wilbourn” saddle tree with the U.S. Patent Office. Its unique design involved the tapering of the tree at the base of the cantle for the comfort of the rider which was different from any other saddle tree of the time. Its wide, under-base at the gullet of the tree also made it particularly less stressful to the horses’s back. At some point, William’s son Samuel took over the business and moved the saddle operation from Lexington to Buena Vista, (Rockbridge County), Virginia. The company was called “The Wilbourn Saddle and Harness Factory” and subsequent saddles were renamed “Buena Vista saddles”.
The Wilbourn/Buena Vista saddle was often made and sold to outside contractors for finishing or even sold to individuals as “kits”, complete with leather and hardware. Made as late as the early 1960's they remained consistent in appearance throughout their history. Knock-offs are made today although the old original Buena Vista saddles were very durable and are occasionally still found in regular use."

I should note that there are other 1850's - 60's era saddles that are sometimes called "Buena Vista" but they are NOT the same as the Buena Vista above. Many saddles of unknown appearance were given popular period names as marketing ploys such as Buena Vista, Brazos, Sabine and others taken from Mexican War and Texas War of Independence places or events.

Other popular civilian patterns for that time period (1830's - 1860's and beyond) region would be the "Spanish" and "Half-Spanish". In fact, they were quite popular and well documented for the period and that region of the country. Don't forget the standard English saddle, Somerset saddle, wagon saddles and other common civilian "riding" saddle patterns.

I might also (shamelessly) suggest you check out my newly re-constructed web site Confederatesaddles.com for lots of free research information and photos of period saddles and horse equipment. This would include bridles, bits etc. that you might be interested in. Or, contact me for more information if you think I can be of help.

Ken R Knopp
www.confederatesaddles.com