Help me Please

[Michael Pierpoint]

Comrades
I have been ask to speak later this week to Military officers Association of America, Southern Illinois Little Egypt Chapter. I'm so used to speaking with Middle and High school age,and some civic groups. With these gentlemen it like been there done that. What can I say that they don't know. Of course most of these men come from WWII, Korea and so forth. This is a tough one for me. I would appreciate any suggestion. I will have the pleasure of listing to these men experences.

Your Obedient Servant
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard
First Federal Division

[ChrisOwens]

Don't get to nervous. Think of it this way. You have alot more to relate to with these gentlemen than you would a group of middle school kids. You can go much more in depth about arms, equipment, and military life because they already know more than the average person. To me talking to someone who already has a general knowledge of the period and or the military is always better because you don't feel like your going over anyones head. Good luck!

[GaWildcat]

What will the nature of the talk be? I am sure that what ever your talk to the civic groups you mentioned is, I have no doubt it will work for these fine gentlemen. When I give kit talks, I assume that people dont know the minutiae
of daily life, and the equipment carried, and the little things that are not really in the history books. While they are all soldiers, they are soldiers of a different period, so they are probably unfamiliar with the arms, the equipment, and the costs. I go into things about the cost of a rifled musket, explain about how Confederate soldiers wrote letters, reusing the same letter and writing between the lines, etc. Hope this helps somewhat.

[cblodg]

We did a drill and talk with our local Army National Guard unit that were all drill Sargeants.

We did a lot of show and tell stuff. Whoed them our equipment and the drill of the day and really got into some of the stories of our NH soldiers.

Find the commonality that (most) of these men have shared the battlefield and served their country, which is exactly what the men of the Civil War did. Bring in that commonality and you'll have a great talk!

Best of luck and enjoy the discussion.

[Abrams]

Talk to them as you would anyone else, but knowing that they may have already experienced it, you can talk like old friends reminiscing. Talk to them as equals, not students, and you may be surprised by what you talk about will bring back memories for them, and/or they can confirm or question you about details.

Don't talk at them. Talk with them. :wink:

You did not say what you were to discuss or why, so its hard to advise.

[Michael Pierpoint]

Real Good Stuff here. I have not decided as of yet what to talk about. My wife suggested when and how and why I started reenacting and my experiences the last 15 years as a reenactor. After thinking about it I leaning in that direction. With thoughts on compareing the two. Civil War Soldiers. vs Reenactor
Any thought on that?

Still Your Obedient Servant
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard
First Federal Division

[ChrisOwens]

Real Good Stuff here. I have not decided as of yet what to talk about. My wife suggested when and how and why I started reenacting and my experiences the last 15 years as a reenactor. After thinking about it I leaning in that direction. With thoughts on compareing the two. Civil War Soldiers. vs Reenactor
Any thought on that?

Still Your Obedient Servant
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard
First Federal Division

Cool idea. I have often wondered what WWII vets think about WWII reenactors? Its a bit different when the guys who actually lived it are still around.

[RJSamp]

Real Good Stuff here. I have not decided as of yet what to talk about. My wife suggested when and how and why I started reenacting and my experiences the last 15 years as a reenactor. After thinking about it I leaning in that direction. With thoughts on compareing the two. Civil War Soldiers. vs Reenactor
Any thought on that?

Still Your Obedient Servant
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard
First Federal Division

Unless you've actually served in the military....and/or were in combat....I'd stay away from comparing a Soldier (from any time period) vs a Reenactor.....you weren't there, you didn't live the life, you didn't face the elephant, you weren't really an officer, you don't know what it's like.....

and yes I've run into Vets who are VERY sensitive about this....

Reenacting is PRETEND.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

To quote my father:

"I did it for real. Why would I want to do it for pretend?"

IMHO and IMHE...

As Herr RJ shared, modern veterans can be a "hard audience." Combat veterans can be another "harder audience" still.
If I were to offer advice, I would say stay with the "3rd Person Impression"
and avoid the "I" and the "we" of "1st Person" or Firpir. By presenting why and the how of "they" did that and "they" did this, with this.... you will let the audience make the comparisons AND their own personal connections.

Stay with the history, and you will be fine.

Others' mileage will vary...

CHS

(Even I have curmudgeony daze when I cringe to hear lads referring to themselves as "we" when it comes to Civil War era units as if they had served, sacrificed, and suffered with the actual members of that unit in the War.)

[Michael Pierpoint]

Yes R.J. I know very well that Reenacting is just pretend!! For have yet to walk or ride a horse to an event.
If you believe I should not compare then maybe we should not be reenactors?
Being a soldier is not just about the battles. However I would not disrespect in any way the men & women who have. I feel a person can parallel reenacting and the soldiers life of the civil war and do in in a respectful way.

Regards
Michael Pierpoint

Its a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone underwear

[RJSamp]

Yes R.J. I know very well that Reenacting is just pretend!! For have yet to walk or ride a horse to an event.
If you believe I should not compare then maybe we should not be reenactors?
Being a soldier is not just about the battles. However I would not disrespect in any way the men & women who have. I feel a person can parallel reenacting and the soldiers life of the civil war and do in in a respectful way.

Regards
Michael Pierpoint

Its a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone underwear

I specifically mentioned many NON BATTLE non parallels.

Don't equate a little reenactor drill with military drill. Don't equate guard/pickett duty at an event with guard or picket duty in a hot or cold zone. We don't know what it was like to live for weeks on end out doors with bad food bad water, etc.

Here's a classic one......my Dad was in the line from August 15th, 1944 onwards as a 19 year old....at Thanksgiving they got pulled off the line for their first decent hot meal.....as my dad sat down on a rainy day he looked at his hot mashed potatoes with real gravy and hot turkey, etc......and as he looked down at this feast a pool of cold water off of his poncho covered head glopped into the food..... yes he cried. And no, we don't really have a parallel with this as reenactors.

I didn't say you didn't know it was pretend....but it is.

[flattop32355]

First of all, how much time is your talk to extend? Q & A or just lecture?
Are they expecting some heavy duty, well researched subject or light entertainment?

[Michael Pierpoint]

Mr. Biederman

I plan on doing about 30 min give or take. There is a meet & greet before a dinner then I speak I plan a Q&A. I just found out this afternoon the youngest man will sixtysix. I have a few subject that I have researched and have done for a few round tables on. I was looking for somthing differnt than norm. I like what Herr Curt said doing this in a third person. I still thinking on talking about how I started reenacting. And how feel learned more about the cw because of being a reenactor than if I had'nt become one. Just a thought.

Cheers
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard (SiG)
First Federal Division

[flattop32355]

Mr. Biederman
I plan on doing about 30 min give or take. There is a meet & greet before a dinner then I speak I plan a Q&A. I just found out this afternoon the youngest man will sixtysix. I have a few subject that I have researched and have done for a few round tables on. I was looking for somthing differnt than norm. I like what Herr Curt said doing this in a third person. I still thinking on talking about how I started reenacting. And how feel learned more about the cw because of being a reenactor than if I had'nt become one. Just a thought.

Though these are military vets of 20th Century wars, that doesn't necessarily guarantee that they are well versed on CW subjects.

Should you wish to try something a bit out of the ordinary, you might try something I once did: Check the library for the the book "Civil War: Acoustic Shadows" by Charles D. Ross (White Mane Books, Shippensburg, PA, 2001, 174 pages)

It shows how on several occasions and for different reasons, army commanders were unable to tell that their forces were engaged because they were unable to hear the battle raging (Examples: Grant at Fort Donelson, Buell at Perryville, Hooker at Chancellorsville). Wind direction, atmospherics, density of foliage and terrain all played parts in the phenomenon at various times.

I'd be willing to bet that your audience have experienced the same in their careers at times.

The nuggets necessary to give a coherent talk on the subject don't require you to fully read the entire book.

The battle at Perryville, KY is a classic example of acoustic shadow due to atmospheric and, particularly, terrain conditions due to the series of rolling hills and ridges in the area.

I'd also agree, stay in 3rd person.

[Spinster]

Having experienced the acoustic shadow thing at Land Between the Lakes a few years ago, I must agree its one of the most fascinating aspects of battle.

One of the most sucessful talks I ever did was to a United Daughters of the Confederacy chapter that included several "True Daughters'' and was totally off the cuff--the scheduled speaker did not show up. Simply, I opened my carpet bag and got dressed--and in so doing, talked about work clothing of the period, how the clothing functioned in heat and cold, the various types of work to be done,--and went through other items I had with me in the bag.

A similar slant could be used with period military clothing and equipment, the process of loading a weapon, what's in your knapsack and haversack, and why. The differences and similarities will be readily evident to these men, and interesting to them.

And I still remember one of the True Daughters laughing about my open drawers--and her fight with her father during her teenage years, as he insisted that no decent woman would wear closed drawers that had to be taken down in order to relieve herself.

[7thMDYankee]

Mr. Pierpoint,

I'm not a professional lecturer, but I am an educator by profession. One of the key ingredients to effective instruction is to know your audience. You have a huge advantage in this realm with the meet and greet. My advice: Go prepared with a few different angles. Use the one that matches your audience best.

You may discover that your audience will pay closer attention and absorb more, etc... You may also find that they will ask more questions. In teaching I call this the "remember why you're here" theory. Each day I stand before my students for them, not me.

I would agree that third person is the way to go. I do it when I teach, particularly when I bring my kit in and we discuss the life of the soldier.

Best wishes in this; and let us know how it went, please.

[Rob Weaver]

Officers are also interested in getting a sense of how their particular specialty fit into the Civil War setting. I took a bunch of Signal Corp officers on a staff ride at Chancellorsville, and they wanted to talk about how wire was laid to the various commands. An aspect of battle I had not really considered heavily up to that point.
They are also interested in organization. The way units were organized then was very different than anything in the late 20th/ early 21st century. You could point that sort of thing out.

[redleggeddevil]

The most difficult speaking engagement I ever had was giving an architectural and historical walking tour to a group from...The American Association of Historical Architects.

What I learned in that situation is this-- you cannot always know more in general than your audience, but you can certainly know more in specific. With the architects, this meant that they knew more about architectural styles and construction methods than I did, but they weren't from that area, so they knew almost nothing about the neighborhood. That was my area of approach--why are all the local buildings from the same narrow time span? Which ones were stores and which one the bordello?

Translated into a military setting, this means that I always emphasize the similarities between CW gear/tactics/conditions and the modern equivalent, then the differences. I find that the vets fill in much of the rest.

A perfect example was when I worked as a Park Ranger at Valley Forge National Park. I was showing the recreated huts to a group of visitors, one of whom seemed more interested than the rest. At the end of the tour, he approached me and said "You know, these actually look more comfortable than some of the places I stayed in the Korean War."

We got to talking, with me filling him in a bit more on 1778 and he filling me in on 1951. We both walked away with a better perspective and a bit more knowledge.

[Cove Rebel]

Listen, I'm a Iraq veteran and an Army officer. What I can tell you is that most of us know a little bit about CW from a handful of staff rides and professional reading, etc. But most of us have too little time to get into the weeds of life of the soldier and just how tactics worked back then.

I know for a fact that most guys don't know jack about doubling, or the weapons, or the hygeiene, or sanitation, nor do they know the differences between wound types and survivabilty of wound differences between the Mexican War and the Civil War. They might be able to tell you who won certain battles if they remember half of what they learned in any given school.

I seriously doubt you will get sniped or play stump-the-chump with some history wiz. If anything they will come up afterward and tell you how their experience sucked more than some of the ones you shared. :D

I was doing a WWII bit at a museum (I was just a display) and had 2 WWII vets argue with each other on wether or not the shirts they were both issued had a gas flap!

[cblodg]

Unless you've actually served in the military....and/or were in combat....I'd stay away from comparing a Soldier (from any time period) vs a Reenactor.....you weren't there, you didn't live the life, you didn't face the elephant, you weren't really an officer, you don't know what it's like.....

and yes I've run into Vets who are VERY sensitive about this....

Reenacting is PRETEND.

I agree with RJ on this.

You're best to stick to the history and talk about the Civil War soldier's experiences.

[IPBarnard]

One item that adults seem to find interesting is to compare that for someone in the Civil War the Napoleonic wars were 50 years before. That is one reason why they were so influential. Just like in our popular culture people think about WWII when they think about the military the people in the Civil War thought about the Napoleonic wars. This is where uniforms, tactic and so forth came from. Many of the professionals knew better but an army of armatures only thought about the last war.

Also you till get the question as to why they were still using muzzleloaders. Point out that the army tested the new cartridges and found that since they were rim fire cases they had a tendency to explode if a mans cartridge box was hit so they discarded the idea. Also the cases at the start of the war were copper and not brass and expanded too much so that they jammed easily.

Thanks,
Mark C. Foster

[Michael Pierpoint]

Wow

Great Stuff!!! I speak tomorrow night. I will use somthing from what everybodys put in. This puts my mind at ease.

Thank you to everyone

Your Obedient Servant
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard
First Federal Division

["Doc" Nelson]

MICHAEL!!!!!

LOL, you'll do just fine my friend. How've you been, btw? I need to get your new email addy. I know you've changed it but, I think I deleted your message you sent me with your new address??? Anyway, shoot me a PM.

Good luck, my friend ;) .

Not much happening with the fire department down here in "can-tuky". I've been on medical leave for over 2 months now (because of my dang! knee :x ). Luckily, I return to duty in a couple of weeks . . YEAH!!!!!

[Michael Pierpoint]

Boy oh
When I stepped to the front of these great men the butterfly's were swarming.
I meet a Retired General, A WWll Naval Aviator that was an Ace. And he shot shot down three in Korea. Two Col's that there jobs were to go ahead Airforce one and secure the area before it arrived. There were about twentyfive men and there wives there. After all was said and done this will be one evening I will not forget.

Thank You, very much for your input it helped

Your Obedient Servant
Michael Pierpoint
Big Muddy Mess
Southern Illinois Guard
First Federal Division

[flattop32355]

And what did you end up speaking about?

[Michael Pierpoint]

I first started with how I started in reenacting. Then went into my uniform and such. Then opened up my haversac, then my knapsac explained all my equipment. My wife went with me who was also a USAF Captain she said I did very well and she was watching eveybody. She stated most were smiling and nodding there heads. One of the biggest laughs for the evening was leave it to the Army to contract a two part spoon. As I stated in the early post it will be an evening I will never forget.

Thanks again
Michael

["Doc" Nelson]

Great job Michael!! Glad to hear it went well ;) .